American Parkour Forum

Parkour and Freerunning => Parkour And Freerunning => Topic started by: Eli on March 25, 2010, 02:00:34 PM

Title: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Eli on March 25, 2010, 02:00:34 PM
I'm sure I wasn't the first to use it as the verb form of pakour, but I do use it more often than others. I haven't had complaints lately, but I have heard them. So why is it we discriminate against it so? It's not like I use it everytime, only when it flows better with the sentence, and use traceurs are all about flow.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Sai Chikine on March 25, 2010, 03:55:04 PM
because 'traceur' is french, which has different rules than english. You cannot just make it into a verb. Besides "I was out practicing/doing parkour" sounds better than "I was out tracing"
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Talib Shively on March 25, 2010, 04:36:16 PM
Why not?  People make verbs and nouns out of words from other languages, what makes French so different?  For example, a purveyor is a supplier of food, and purvey means to furnish or supply (also, that comes from Norman French).  Traceur is a person who practices parkour, so trace could mean to practice parkour.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Andrew Wilson on March 25, 2010, 04:38:56 PM
Thats just how it is.
Deal.

(http://cesarsequeira.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/serious-cat.jpg)
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Dan Elric on March 25, 2010, 04:43:11 PM
It is because trace is already a word in English.  Also, they're still using it wrong.  Trace is an transitive verb; it needs a direct object.  You don't trace.  You trace something.  So if you use it as a intransitive verb it seems out of place and unnatural (which it should, they're using it wrong).

It doesn't make any since to make a special case for parkour either.  In gymnastics you don't gymnastic.  In martial arts you don't martial art.  This whole thing is just silly.  There's no need to confuse the language by adding an intransitive application to a transitive verb (which is an absolute nono).
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: WoodlandGhillie on March 25, 2010, 05:23:19 PM
It is because trace is already a word in English.  Also, they're still using it wrong.  Trace is an transitive verb; it needs a direct object.  You don't trace.  You trace something.  So if you use it as a intransitive verb it seems out of place and unnatural (which it should, they're using it wrong).

It doesn't make any since to make a special case for parkour either.  In gymnastics you don't gymnastic.  In martial arts you don't martial art.  This whole thing is just silly.  There's no need to confuse the language by adding an intransitive application to a transitive verb (which is an absolute nono).

*grammar-Nazi applaudation*
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Talib Shively on March 25, 2010, 08:20:12 PM
Trace does have an intransitive meaning though, which is "to follow a course, trail, etc.; make one's way."  So saying that I am tracing with regards to parkour is actually a correct usage of the word.  Of course, that would just mean that the similarities to traceur and trace are just a coincidence.  Funny how that can happen, huh?  ;D
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Andy Keller on March 25, 2010, 09:50:12 PM
Trace does have an intransitive meaning though, which is "to follow a course, trail, etc.; make one's way."  So saying that I am tracing with regards to parkour is actually a correct usage of the word.  Of course, that would just mean that the similarities to traceur and trace are just a coincidence.  Funny how that can happen, huh?  ;D

Freakin false cognates screwing everything up!

Btw,
"I do parkour."
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Andrew Wilson on March 25, 2010, 10:00:56 PM
is it really that much of a problem to say 1 extra word?

"I'm parkouring" ( X )
"I'm doing parkour" ( ✓ )

Its one word... -_-
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Rafe on March 25, 2010, 10:35:08 PM
I think it should also be noted that Les Traceurs Borrowed their name from the english tracer and the U was added later. So Trace in that sense might be a very good word for verbing (  :P )  parkour, on the other hand that was an individual team name and never intended to be a name for all practitioner of the discipline and members of Les traceurs have expressed their dismay at its general adoption. So perhaps we should stop calling ourselves traceurs and then trace might seem a less logical verb for practicing parkour. Or maybe we could all stop being such pedantic dorks about parkouring.

Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Mark Toorock on March 25, 2010, 11:37:06 PM
freerunning is such a great verb.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Eli on March 26, 2010, 03:32:21 AM
Hm, so many viewpoints on it. Besides, I didn't say I use it to replace "doing parkour," I just use it when it feels like it's need in the sentence. Also, the reason I thought it was a better verb than the nonexistent "parkouring," is because traceur translates to tracer. I tracer, would trace. Although, I guess in the same respect, we could just say we tracue.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Dan Elric on March 26, 2010, 03:55:48 AM
Trace does have an intransitive meaning though, which is "to follow a course, trail, etc.; make one's way."  So saying that I am tracing with regards to parkour is actually a correct usage of the word.  Of course, that would just mean that the similarities to traceur and trace are just a coincidence.  Funny how that can happen, huh?  ;D

Well that's lame.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: DaveS on March 26, 2010, 07:08:49 AM
The English language is famous for borrowing words from many languages (sometimes multiple times) and changing the meanings. Almost all words have been borrowed from another group or language at some point.

I'm quite happy with using the words "training" and "moving" to describe parkour and movement respectively.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Corndogg on March 26, 2010, 07:32:22 AM
Trace as a verb just sounds lame IMO.  I won't be using it.  It'll never come across right to anyone who isn't already intimately familiar with parkour and the use of that word as a verb for practicing parkour, which just leads to more communication problems.  Also, I don't want something thats a strange esoteric underground description, I want something easily identifiable and recognizable so I can share with others.

If anything, I could see it used in a different and specific context, e.g. instead of using it to describe training/practicing/doing parkour in general, use it to describe a path or flow.  So instead of "I'm going to go trace" its "I'm going to go train/practice/do parkour, and in my training I practice tracing a line from that bench to that tree."  Or "Hey man try this run - trace a path from this bench, over that rail, and up to that spot."  ???
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Mitchell on March 26, 2010, 11:08:15 AM
Hm, so many viewpoints on it. Besides, I didn't say I use it to replace "doing parkour," I just use it when it feels like it's need in the sentence. Also, the reason I thought it was a better verb than the nonexistent "parkouring," is because traceur translates to tracer. I tracer, would trace. Although, I guess in the same respect, we could just say we tracue.

Traceur's translation to "tracer" is not referring to a person who traces, however. It's referring to a radioactive atom used in chemistry.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: max eisenberg on March 26, 2010, 01:56:46 PM
call it what you want, labels are used to understand common ideas. they can however hold you back in certain ways, take for instance this thread...

it doesnt matter what you call it, just as long as the passion and dedication is there (in the right ways that is).
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: swap01 on March 26, 2010, 10:08:32 PM
Guys, guys ,guys.
1.) All you need is love :)
and 2.) WHO CARES?
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Dan Shoupe on March 27, 2010, 07:39:08 AM
I second what swap01 said

But the word traceur comes from the verb tracer, or to trace, which is definitely transitive.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Dylan Antonsen on March 27, 2010, 05:08:14 PM
freerunning is such a great verb.
^
I just say free running because I'm not really always doing the most efficient thing, even if I'm training for parkour...

also, who gives a rats ass about English skills when you should be caring more about your form and physical skill...
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Dan Elric on March 27, 2010, 06:10:47 PM
^
I just say free running because I'm not really always doing the most efficient thing, even if I'm training for parkour...

also, who gives a rats ass about English skills when you should be caring more about your form and physical skill...

Think of parkour as "a discipline that uses practical movements to overcome obstacles."  I think it is more encompassing and flexible that way.  So you won't say, "oh well I'm not doing this in really in efficiency so it is free running," when you're still doing parkour.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: DevintheNinja on March 27, 2010, 11:09:56 PM
i agree with dylan go out and train. Glad you guys are smart to the point where you can break down a word's meaning, but C'MON SON GTFOHWTBS  and go train
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Corndogg on March 28, 2010, 07:54:03 AM
For those who don't care - if we starting using "ExtremeRoofJumping" instead of "trace" then would you care?   ;)  Point being, you should care to some degree on how the discipline is being represented.  Maybe in this case its acceptable so you can say "who cares?" but I hope people aren't using that comeback for every single debate...
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Eli on March 29, 2010, 11:06:15 AM
^
I just say free running because I'm not really always doing the most efficient thing, even if I'm training for parkour...

also, who gives a rats ass about English skills when you should be caring more about your form and physical skill...
It's that attitude that scares me away from the internet at points.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: swap01 on March 29, 2010, 03:07:49 PM
okay, I agree with the two above posts. I would be mad if we called it ExtremeRoofJumping because it wouldn't be portraying Parkour the right way. Let me rephrase myself: Who cares what we call it as long as it represents Parkour in an appropriate, acceptable matter.

English skills are really important in today's world. U gotta be awesome to make your living from only being fit. like NFL guys survive like 3 years, make 20 million, and are done. but then what do u do with the rest of ur life? You'll want to be working a little bit.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Clint Walker on March 29, 2010, 03:26:28 PM
Let's remember that Parkour was originally spelled 'parcours' or something like that. David changed the 'c' to a 'k' to make it more aggressive and dropped the 's' because it was inefficient. Thus, I don't really see why we shouldn't use the term "tracing" if it makes it more efficient.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Andy Keller on March 29, 2010, 03:49:21 PM
Let's remember that Parkour was originally spelled 'parcours' or something like that. David changed the 'c' to a 'k' to make it more aggressive and dropped the 's' because it was inefficient. Thus, I don't really see why we shouldn't use the term "tracing" if it makes it more efficient.

I see what you're saying, but we aren't creating anything new [or defining or developing or naming or whatever (that's a different argument)]. David Belle started from scratch and named things how he chose. There wasn't a name for what David did, so he named it. We, however, are messing with something that has already been created. There already *is* a way to refer to what we do and what we're called, so I don't see a need to "create" a new way.

Btw, parcours refers to obstacle courses [usually developed for military training]. David probably used it because it stood for something similar to [...but it still wasn't exactly...] what he was doing. He then developed "parkour" for exactly what he was doing and exactly what we do today.
Title: Re: Why is the Word Trace such a problem?
Post by: Eli on March 30, 2010, 12:39:24 PM
I see what you're saying, but we aren't creating anything new [or defining or developing or naming or whatever (that's a different argument)]. David Belle started from scratch and named things how he chose. There wasn't a name for what David did, so he named it. We, however, are messing with something that has already been created. There already *is* a way to refer to what we do and what we're called, so I don't see a need to "create" a new way.

Btw, parcours refers to obstacle courses [usually developed for military training]. David probably used it because it stood for something similar to [...but it still wasn't exactly...] what he was doing. He then developed "parkour" for exactly what he was doing and exactly what we do today.
I think we should close this thread down for good. I've decided that no matter how we look at this, we will always have two warring factions. To trace or to train parkour, it's not a question, it's an opinion. So just end it before I commit sepuku and delete the thread itself. Instead leave it in peace to be dug up by traceurs to come and seen as an unending question.

Also:
English skills are really important in today's world. U gotta be awesome to make your living from only being fit. like NFL guys survive like 3 years, make 20 million, and are done. but then what do u do with the rest of ur life? You'll want to be working a little bit.
You talk about how important English is, and yet you abuse it like a junkie does his wife.