Author Topic: Frustrated with Kong Vault (Read 10794 times)

David Glass · « **on:** February 29, 2008, 06:43:27 PM »

I don't know if this is normal, but I started trying out the Kong Vault, or actually the Monkey Vault following Ozzi's tutorial (He makes it look so easy, I thought I'd be able to do it after only a few tries).

Anyway, I seemed to have made some progress, where I'm able to get both feet on the table (first step before clearing it). I'm doing about 20 or so of these a day, but after 3 days, I still haven't been able to project my feet far enough forward to make me feel I'm ready to start trying to clear the table.

I'm posting this in 30+ cause I don't know if this is an age thing, or if this is something everyone goes through

Thanks!

Milquetoast · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2008, 05:15:30 PM »

I do believe it is something that most people go through -- the Kong Vault really takes a major leap of faith to pull off. I don't know if this is the problem or not, but from your description of what you're trying to do, it seems like you might not be bringing your hips high enough. A very common problem with people learning kongs is that they really want to stay upright. In order to properly do a Kong you will have to throw your hips really high (ideally above your shoulders). Your hands are used to push your torso back up so you don't fall on your face, and really should not be a primary source of propulsion (unless the obstacle is way too tall, in which case the hands need to help). Hope this helps!

David Glass · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2008, 07:19:14 AM »

Thanks, MilqueToast

The problem I was having was that I was right up against the table, so when I jumped, I was jumping straight up. I overcame that and am slowly making my way from the monkey-stall to the monkey vault.

This weekend I almost made it over the table. The back of my feet softly hit the end of the table and the end of the picnic table seat.

Yeah, I noticed that with the kong vault. It is a HUGE leap of faith, perhaps one I shouldn't take before masterring the monkey vault first. Maybe that leap of faith wont be so huge after that.

I am having a bit of trouble with my hips, tho. It seems that lunge to get your knees to your chest is causing some sensitivity, and yesterday I made the mistake of trying it while wearing jeans, with my pockets full of the usual keys and what not, and before making an effort to warm up... just one of those "I haven't done the monkey-stall in the last 2 hrs" sort of thing. Hips really hurt after doing that... eek! I hope it's nothing long-term I'll have to worry about

BearMills · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2008, 08:09:48 PM »

i kno i kno another yungling here but dont go oh be quiet ur young blah blah"

I recently just started parkour and was having the same problems with the Monkey and Kong Vault. Parkour isn't about learning Tricks like "snap" it takes a while. When i started i had trouble gettin my feet to clear the table so on so on. But after just standing next to a table and kind of going through the motion, slowly progress on. Also with the hips, make sure you stretch like stretch ALOT, this will help your knees, legs, Thighs, and upperbody allow you to do the monkey and Kong Vault.

Well good luck, best of wishes

Hawaiiboy

Milquetoast · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2008, 11:16:02 PM »

So you were jumping too close to the table? Yeah, that could affect your trajectory such that you won't be able to get over it. Well, here's another question for you: where are your hands touching the picnic table? Is it close to the "near" side, or almost at the far edge? You really should aim for the far edge as that'll make it much easier to bring your legs over the entire table. If you touch at the near end, then you'd have to propel your body the entire distance of the table with your hands, which is very hard to do.

Yeah, you definitely don't want to push yourself so much that you get injured. If you're just starting, then I would highly, HIGHLY recommend working on good landings and rolls. Precision Jumps are also very important because it helps you land correctly and learn how to gauge distance. Parkour really is a high-impact sport and even if you've conditioned your body for it, you're bound to get injured eventually. However, the conditioning will help reduce the occurrences and severity of the injuries.

Good luck, and train hard!

jakkal · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2008, 08:20:25 AM »

I have discovered that as I have gotten older I have had more trouble with flexibility. Pretty much everyone does. It sneaks up on you though. I used to be able to do the splits, just drop down into them no problem. If I tried that now I know an ear shattering, falsetto shriek would come shortly after but my legs still feel like I should be able to do it. Muse_of_Fire has a good guide to stretching in the Fitness section. I think us oldsters have to work harder on improving our ability to jump and we have to do more warm up and stretching. I am still having problems with the Monkey / Kong too. Like I said, I think improving my jump height and distance as well as flexibility will help a lot. I would say give your hips a break for a while and try some stretches to limber up the areas that are bugging you. Pushing through the pain worked OK at 25, at 35 it just means you push into new, more powerfull, longer lasting pain. For me at least.

David Glass · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2008, 08:32:31 AM »

Jakkal,

You make a good point.

I am taking a couple of days off, and I do realize now exactly what movement is bothering me: the lunging of your knees to your chest.

I took yesterday off, but did a couple of knee-to-chest (blurpee???) jumps to impress my soon-to-be 1 yr old son (it cracks him up). I realized if I did the jump without lunging my knees up, I was fine, but if I did bring them up, I felt the pain again. I guess I have to warm up, take it slow, and take a couple of days off.

Maybe I'll just practice some other moves for a couple, let my sore hip heal a bit

BTW, I'm trusting the fact that I feel no pain unless I do this move means its muscular, not bone pain. I think I can afford to unless pain doesn't go away soon :-)

BearMills · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2008, 11:56:16 AM »

Remember STRETCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its one of the best cures for aches, and also like jakkal said Take time off sometimes and just work on movements when u take that time off, because then you will build muscle memory which should allow you to perfect the kong, Monkey

David Glass · « **Reply #8 on:** March 06, 2008, 07:19:13 AM »

I got back to training last night. My hip bothered me a bit, but after a couple of easy warm-up jumps, I was fine.

I'm starting to develop a pretty strong monkey-stall, enough to go for the vault, but I won't do that til this weekend (because I practice at night and would like to be able to see my landing spot)

Surprisingly, no pain! I'll keep an eye out for it, though, but it might have been my body going into shock, kind of saying "You mean you're actually going to make me move that way???"

BearMills · « **Reply #9 on:** March 06, 2008, 12:36:26 PM »

Haha thats great!

Well best of luck training

Gregg · « **Reply #10 on:** March 06, 2008, 02:49:11 PM »

Yeah. Being older brings all sorts of added challenges. Slower metabolism, longer heal times, lower flexibility. Bla bla bla. Enough complaining.

The kong isn't easy. Ozzi breaks it down well, but he's been training gymnastics, dance, and martial arts for years. To be a $%^ year old, without that kind of training... it's not that easy.

Make sure to get all your muscles and joints warmed up and lubricated before doing the power moves. There's some controversy about doing static 'push and hold' stretches before exercise. Some people say it's bad for you, before, only good after exercise or on a separate day.

If you're training at night, and you're at table width ability, try to see how much length you can get. That way you're not worrying about the landing. I practice sometimes on a 12' long table. There's no way I'm going to clear that in the near future. It lets me focus on my approach, take off, dive, and push, without having to bother with a landing spot I can't see.

David Glass · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2008, 04:27:29 PM »

OK, this is really getting to me

No matter how hard I try, I don't seem to be making any progress with this. It also doesn't help that during the day I try to analyze what I've been doing wrong, only to get home, try something different and watch that not work out.

I'm making it on the table OK. In fact, after doing about 30 of these per day for the last week, getting on the table has become quite comfortable. With my palms on the table, I'm able to prohect myself forward to about a foot or so, distance which hasn't varied in the last 7 days.

When I try to take a slight impulse, I make it on the table, but, oh, there it is, that same foot progress. THen I try to land my hands further down the table, and there it is again, the same foot distance on the table.

All day long all I do is think about this... eeeeek!!!

BearMills · « **Reply #12 on:** March 13, 2008, 05:36:10 PM »

Hmm well the best you can do is just keep training at it, Hell ill admit I cant even do a Kong, or a Monkey Vault on a Rail, but Im still workin at it and hopefully Ill get it oh yeh btw heres the other vid i meant to send you

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5n4xXc25wPE&feature=related

Gregg · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2008, 06:27:33 PM »

Cpt: So no matter what you do, you end up the same distance on the table? And your mind is obsessing about it?

A solution: Find something completely different to do. Work on your roll, or an upper body move like the muscle up, lache, or shimmy.
Another solution: Work on something similar but different. Speed vault would be good. Start it slow, but gradually see how fast, smooth and efficient you can get.
Another another solution: Video yourself doing the kong. Compare it to Ozzi's form in his tutorial. This is a little harder, since you don't really know how to do what he's doing [otherwise you'd be doing it, right?]

Remember how a bad song gets stuck in your head? All day long you're singing some terrible lyrics? The only way to get rid of it is to choose something else to focus on. Something worthwhile. When you find yourself starting to think about doing a kong, tell your mind, "I'm sorry. I'm thinking about this other thing right now." Then start thinking about the other thing.

Hope that helps!

[The salmon ad where he fights the bear is funnier.]

BearMills · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2008, 07:05:53 PM »

Yeh I kno i Showed Cpt it earlier this one is one they did from a couple yrs ago

David Glass · « **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2008, 06:27:03 AM »

Actually, you showed me a different one, HawaiiBoy

THe one you showed me, he actually dukes it out with the bear LOL

I thought of focussing on something else. A part of me thinks it would be like giving up. Tonight I'm going to go out and work on my Lazys and Thiefs. I know I can kong high, so maybe I'll kong over a single rail (2 punch takeoff). I found a nice secluded place near a canal with some good rails designed to keep cars out. I'll have some fun there.

To make matters worse, wife came out yesterday when I really pushed a kong to the point I had to take a huge step forward to stop my momentum. I was still on the table and she gave me the whole... "You are obsessing and you're going to get your teeth broken, plus, you're damaging the picnic table... bla bla bla". My morale was already low, so tonight I'll try something different.

I have kept the fact that I'm doing parkour, or trying to do for that matter, in hopes that I'll get any good at it for her to respect it rather than giving me the "Who are you kidding?" sort of thing

BobT · « **Reply #16 on:** March 14, 2008, 08:07:06 AM »

I don't train in front of my wife... especially when I'm trying to teach my 3yo how to land and roll

David Glass · « **Reply #17 on:** March 14, 2008, 10:15:05 AM »

LOL

Yeah, my kid will be 1 yr old this saturday. He's already climbing up his stroller... I think he'll take after his dad (that is if I can get my jumps right LOL)

BearMills · « **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2008, 03:56:40 PM »

Haha thats great for you Cpt, well besides ur wife obsessing bout u getting killed but anyways haha least you can kong!

Kevin Davies · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2008, 02:06:55 PM »

If you have an old couch you don't mind destroying, put it at the end of your table and don't even try getting your feet under you, just run and dive, push off the table and tuck your knees up and land on the couch. This helped me learn to kong because I was trying to bring my feet up too soon because I was afraid of face planting. After I gained confidence that I could get the distance to the couch, I started bringing my feet down and hitting the landings. Of course I kind of destroyed an arm and a leg on the couch, so don't try this with your front room couch.

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Author Topic: Frustrated with Kong Vault (Read 10794 times)