Topic: Roll Pain

[Ozzi]

Oh did you think I was critquing your rolls? haha sorry...no you're rolls are perfect...but thank god for judo when i was younger to teach me how to fall and roll...it really helped a lot.

haha I know tell me, but thanks man, I just get really sensitive about my roll... sniff sniff** lol

[Harbisonparkour]

I think i got my roll down finaly, i just need to try it afew times on concreat, the places where i parkour dont have much, mostly parks and school trailors.

[Rickoise]

try practicing rolling in grass until all you feel afterwords is a little dizzy.  I know when i roll i feel like i never even touched the ground

[aeroblitz27]

really practice a "dive" kinda roll. jump up, land with your "hands"( mostly to absorb a little impact from that hop of a dive you do) and then ease your way into that roll.

helps alot.

[Harbisonparkour]

will do.

[Andy Animus Tran]

ADTitan, I strongly disagree.  A good roll will result in facing nearly sideways when you come out of it, because you're coming off of that hip.  To face the same way you came in, you need to twist a hell of a lot..  Check out any of the originalt raceurs and you see they face (as in, their chests are pointed toward) a diagonal path away from their original orientation, then they push off to one side of their hip to return to running in the direction they were originally faced.

Ozzi, MA rolls do not have direct transfer to Parkour, though they are very VERY similar.  In any case, I see nothing wrong with your rolls (other than when you come out of front tucks, as we've discussed before).

[Adam McC]

Animus, I sort of disagree. I think for many people, yes, a good roll results in facing nearly sideways. Stephane V for example. However, for some people, that's not so. My roll is very forward and I get no pain from it at all. Same goes for ozzi. If I do a sideways roll, the side of my hip hurts too much. That's just due to my body type. However, for a skinnier person whose bones stick out more, my roll would hurt. I think that saying "a good roll results in this or that" is never correct, because different rolls work for different people, and also, different situations. You'll often see David Belle do a martial arts roll, as well as a more sideways one, depending on his environment.

[james2610]

When rolling i dont think you should roll down your back on concrete...you should roll from shoulder to your other hip for best effects, I do it and it doesnt really hurt but your bound to be hurt when you roll

[Adam McC]

When rolling i dont think you should roll down your back on concrete...you should roll from shoulder to your other hip for best effects, I do it and it doesnt really hurt but your bound to be hurt when you roll

'

Whew, thanks man.

[JeremyC]

Well i'm pretty much a noob, but when i roll, i kinda feel my spine crack and sometimes it feels good and other times it doesnt.
I'm a pretty skinnny guy so my spine sticks out. Any thoughts?

[Alec Furtado]

Big question some friends and I have had lately: hit the ground or collapse into it?

I think that collapse into it makes more sense in cushioning your impact, but I see Belle and some others basically punching the ground with his feet to start the roll.

[Adam McC]

That's because of his leg power, he can instantly resist the force.

The point is, I guess, you resist as much as you can. If you collapse, then you probably jumped from too far.

[Alec Furtado]

That's because of his leg power, he can instantly resist the force.

The point is, I guess, you resist as much as you can. If you collapse, then you probably jumped from too far.

Well the main point of rolling is to cushion the impact. I know it also helps to change your momentum but that is more of a bonus.

You are using "collapse" differently than I am. With your "collapse," your are suggesting that you jumped from way too high and are hitting the ground with way too much force to counteract. I mean that at the moment you hit, you transition straight into the roll. I see quite a few people who hit the ground and then just jump into the roll as though it were two different things. That may help you get up and continue smoothly, but it does not help to cushion the impact at all. I think it should all be done as one motion.

[Adam McC]

The purpose of a roll, Veloce, is to transition downward force into horizontal momentum. If you just land and roll, you're not diverting much energy, and your body is basically taking the maximum impact, then you're kinda rolling at the end for no reason. Watch david belle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWJHSyjVMY8&feature=related

At 1:03 you can see him divert the downward momentum with his legs into forward momentum, making his landing nice and smooth.

That landing of his is of course an exaggeration, because.. he's.. David Belle. You don't have to BOUNCE off the ground from a 10 foot drop, but you should not be collapsing, you should be resisting, and your legs should hold a non-acute angle while your weight transfers forward, otherwise you have collapsed and your legs have already taken the damage. Once you get to the point of collapsing, why not just tap out? You're already there. If you're saying to yourself well there's too much impact to tap out, then I revert to what I said before. You shouldn't have jumped that much distance.

[hardcoretraceur]

oof, not liking a lot of what I see here, just in this last page.

I am of the opinion that you should go with what works for you. The roll is a movement that you should experiment a bit, to try to better understand, do side rolls, back rolls, twisting rolls, incorporate it into and out of qm. all of these methods should increase your body awareness, along with being potentially useful techniques. If you aim to do rolls well then know that a good roll will not hurt, even on concrete.

[Adam McC]

I agree mate, I train rolls every way, and I have about 5 different rolls I use, from martial art style rolls to a more forward roll, to a sideways parkour roll, depending on my environment, but the question stated here was to resist the ground or collapse into it. Simple question, and we're discussing it. Not talking about what's right or wrong, talking about what works best for your body. And I think no matter who's body we're talking about, collapsing is bad for it.

[Alec Furtado]

Well then I guess my idea is just different... you think rolling has little to do with cushioning the impact?

What's more important, transferring momentum from some jumps or not having to get a knee replacement? I see rolling as a way to keep as much stress off of your legs as possible. That doesn't mean you try to land on your back or anything, but you minimize the amount of force to a reasonable degree. You don't need to to be jumping off of anything high to cause damage either. Yes, landing from a 2 story building is bad, but what about repeated stiff landings from only 5-6 feet? Obviously the results will be different depending on how much leg strength you have, but the idea is still the same. I try to increase the surface area and decrease the impulse of the landing IN ADDITION to keeping the flow.

Of course this is all assuming that taking the impact as stated is bad for your knees, whether immediate (from very high up) or over time (from numerous low drops). So again, I think cushioning the impact is or should be the primary goal and a smooth transfer of motion is or should be a bonus.


On a different note, I think that if you could master this transition of lessening the impact, the height at which you could safely descend would go up a lot, not that I'm suggesting them, however.

[Adam McC]

Yes, I don't think the idea of a roll is to cushion the impact, I think a roll is designed to redirect the impact, so you don't have to deal with it at all. Would I rather cushion a bullet, or redirect it? Hmmm. Would I rather cushion a punch, or redirect it. Better to cushion a car hitting me, or redirect it? What sounds better to you?

I agree, but you're missing the point anatomically. Resisting the impact is doing exactly what you're saying is good, taking the stress off the knees. By resisting you are using the power of your leg muscles to lessen the downward impact taken, and transfer it forward so you can continue your run. By "cushioning" the impact as you say, and bending your knees and legs as far as they go, you are putting the strain on the knees and ankles, and only beginning your roll after the strain has already occurred.

[Alec Furtado]

By "cushioning" the impact as you say, and bending your knees and legs as far as they go, you are putting the strain on the knees and ankles, and only beginning your roll after the strain has already occurred.

Nah, what I do is I come down with my weight forward so that I fall/collapse into a roll without needing to compress as much as possible.

Yes, I don't think the idea of a roll is to cushion the impact, I think a roll is designed to redirect the impact, so you don't have to deal with it at all. Would I rather cushion a bullet, or redirect it? Hmmm. Would I rather cushion a punch, or redirect it. Better to cushion a car hitting me, or redirect it? What sounds better to you?

It isn't healthy to not deal with your problems... lol jk. I get what you're saying.


Maybe I should just get a video of how I've been doing my rolls and have you look at it? Actions speak louder (and better) than words? I also have the feeling that what I think I'm doing may be different from what someone else might see...

[Adam McC]

Nah, what I do is I come down with my weight forward so that I fall/collapse into a roll without needing to compress as much as possible.

But in order for that to happen your legs have to hold an angle in order for your body to tilt forward so you can roll and not faceplant. If you did not use muscle tension to tilt forward over your shoulder you would fall on your face, literally, or, take far too much impact on your hands and shoulder. Post a video, please. Here's an example that isn't very good, but the point is made. See how my leg muscles resist, and then tilt forward to my momentum is redirected into a roll without my knees or ankles taking stress? That's about 9 feet onto concrete.

http://s3.photobucket.com/flash/player.swf?file=http://vid3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/SwitchBlade1572/Clip16.flv