Topic: Tribe

[albinoboy]

Nice to see DC holding the power in the tribe.

[Skipper]

In rock and roll we trust.

God bless God, amen

[Gearsighted]

Indeed, asa, which has been construed both as a second part of one motto, and a seperate motto all to itself.

[Asa]

One more wise comment out of you and I'll construe my motto all over your face.

Back on subject, and away from the mayhem:

Does the Tribe have a mission statement? If not, I think that the sooner that one is formulated, the more quickly people will understand your motives and be put at rest.

Thanks.

[klaymen]

@ deft-

the reason people use analogies, is because it makes it easier for you to understand if you want a straight answer, read the first thing after this paragraph, if it is not what you are looking for, then read the analogy after it. if you say you still don't understand, then i think you actually do and you are just trying to stir things up.


STRAIGHT ANSWER: "because it is fun. we can give you the definition of something, but that doesn't mean it is the only thing that is going to be in our videos"


ANALOGY: "a nascar driver can give you all the rules of racing, but he can also have a commercial where he is just driving. does that make him a hypocrite? also, do you need a name for just driving around?"

[Skipper]

Thats correct. Its all correct, we dont need any more analogies.

thank you to all who tried to explain, contributed, or just had a positive attitude about it. From here on out, I dont want to hear any more on this topic. If you dont get it by now, you just dont get it. Im sorry we couldnt be of more help, but we did our best, and we can only hope that you all did too.

this aspect of discussion is OVER. i dont want to hear ANY more on it. It will be locked if anyone attempts to respark negative disputes, please dont go out of your ways to stir shit, it only gives the entire community a terrible reputation. Do not do it, it wont be tolerated.

Back to discussion (and i thank you Asa for bringing us back to discussion, you get an applaud). We do not have a mission statement just yet, we will probably be working on it this week so we will direct you to it upon completion.

thank you

[M2.]

Poor Skipper has finally blown a gasket!

Personally I say we turn this into a "Skipper Rocks" thread ... if Skipper has ever helped or tried to help you, this might be a great time to thank him again, sounds liek he could use it

Thanks Skipper for everything you do for these forums and for APK, your contributions are huge, we couldn't run this place without you!

[Josh Klute]

Amen to that . Skipper, thankyou for all that you have shown me, you've really really helped me to understand parkour.  Without you I would probably still be stuck upside down in the marshmallow bin at my local grocery store

[The Manilla Gorilla]

Yeah, thanks skipper if it wasnt for you i would still be spewwing out the "but how can somthing as free as parkour mean no flips" you a damn good mod, And i will eventually make it down to dc to jam there.

[Matthew Lee Willis]

Holly Crap I step away from the Convo for half a day and there are two pages added on.

The bottom line is Deft that no one can answer your questions straight out.  Because as much as you have asked they have not done that.  Are they scared to answer it...probably not.  Although they wont do it.

The problem we have Deft is the fact that we are fighting against people who don't except Evidence A (freestyle Parkour)  They only have Evidence B (parkour) and that is all they need to explain the murder.  The fact that The bullet (B) killed the girl is enough.  They don't want to see that the Gun (A) is what also helped.  Sure you can kill someone with just a bullet but its what you use to propell the bullet.  This might be confusing but this is an analogy to Vids and Training (B) is the Foundation of what is produced on the street (A). Take that DAN!

OK...I think Maybe one or two of you might understand that one...it was a weird way of saying it but I think that it works.  Sorry to keep this going but I had to let this out.  Still not to many people touch on what I have said in my last post.  DEFT...hehe He was talking to the other dude LOL.

[The Manilla Gorilla]

So thats why there are no girl traceurs. Apprently a bullet (b) killls them, but its not soley (b's) fault, it it wasnt for freerunning (a) distracting her, then she would have been a greater traceur, argo she  would have been able to use her parkour skills, to avoid (b) you see the flip (c) allowed her to get shot, if she did a vault (d) then she would have been able to get away(lmnop!)

Dont flip out im joking people

[Parkourdan]

Dan, seriously, you're a really great guy, so why are you being such an ass about this? We have set down before everyone how we are goign to operate just so we can avoid this kind of shit, we can't help if peopel ask questions, all we can do is try to answer them. You call us liars because we use metaphors and analogies? How can you be so upset over us trying to clarify something, if someone doens't understand somethign you try to help them understand in a different way that's not lying, that's logic. Right now you seem to be overlooking, in fact all you seem to be focusing on is how bad everybody is, but i don't understand why. Dan don't talk about ego when all you're doing is putting other people down, what happened to "zero intimidation and we are always ready to help you out." like it says on PKTO? I have complete respect for you because i have seen first hand what you are capable of organizing and i only question why you feel the need to put yourself above us? Why are we all so dumb, what would you have us do, rather than insults what do you suggest, that's what we're trying to do here, you know positive responses.

I appreciate the response instead of a couple I got in my email box and msn that werent so pretty! Threatening infact! .. ha ha ha ... the Americans who added me to msn as well ... I was at work. I will be on tommorow for a bit during the day and you can try to catch me there.

That message was not full of ego... and you quote me saying Im always ready to help, which is funny... How much help and things have I spent contributing on this site or the scene in total which you are a part of? You wouldnt have alot of things if it wasnt for me opening my mouth ... I didnt have to help this site at all, I chose to. Im FAR too nice when it comes to helping and it always bites me in the ass in the end.... This is the life of Parkour... When your soul purpose and mission in the scene is to help, people will use you. Ive been used many times but I keep going.... Its what I do and I will not stop.

Realize this as well, I get criticized alot for helping you guys when I shouldn't... I get critized for putting m2 on the picnic table with me at the North American meet in Toronto... I get critized alot ... trust me. But I still helped through it all.... So please frosti.. Rethink that statement.

The problem with this site, WWJ and UF is they are all based on the same principle. m2 and Gear know it. Not sure if the rest of the Tribe do since they are not in full contact with things like scene leaders are that know how things work. The end user always knows the least which is how it works, its a shame but it has to work that way for some things to stay in balance...

I thought maybe things would be kept off this site and it would be more "for the member" instead of "for the team" but in turn its actually the other way around and it looks like it will very much end up just being another site to feed a team using the community for leverage. I thought that m2 may have learnt from UF and this would not become essentially just another copy. Stuff like this .. "the tribe and APK are 2 seperate projects so continuity between the 2 is not an issue" ... said by Demon is total crap. I know it, you all know it I dunno why people have to dick around and play stupid. Why wasnt everyone so giddy and happy before to promote a scene.... America was dead. Enter in the prospect of money and ... now theres a war in America. How can the Tribe represent America if theres scenes that don't like the Tribe? eek.

Tell your users the truth instead of making up stories, posts, nonsense... they deserve that much. I cry because of UF sometimes.. since people look upto these guys that don't give a shit about them. The elitist principle when it comes to these team parkour sites totally blows and thats whats happening here. A bunch of you tribe members have changed, 1 in perticular who spoke to me on msn today and Im quite shocked and upset its happening. Its against everything Parkour stands for. I could post many bad things... upset members.... truths about things... but why!!? I also got emails from people saying I was too vague and to whip it out and expose all truths... but again, why? I gain nothing from just causing more arguments and drama, you guys have enough of it in the states.

Im not here to ruin the Tribe... like I said... someone has to do the media and until someone else steps up in the states you guys are the only ones so go for it. Theres a few members I think are awsome in it as well; Frosti has by far the best and coolest attitude and will suit the role very well. I think you guys are confusing what I said as an attack on the Tribe... its not. It just happens to be in this thread. Which is a 5 page long thread about the tribe (not to mention the dvd one) on a site that is suppost to have nothing to do with the Tribe. Granted most posts are just spewings over and over about how good the Tribe is going to be and all that.... so ... if people arent biting their own words... doodledoo..

You guys are also taking it a bad way and are upset with my words. Understandable ... because well... it is BAD for business since I do play a part in North America ... I know ... And ya ... saying these things on your site isnt a great way to start off your careers now is it. But again this is a Parkour site... so read what follows;

You guys want to know why the Parkour scene in Canada is a lot better then the USA? It's so simple you will all laugh at this!

We care.

Each and every member at the top of the scene actually gives a shit about even the smallest rookie. They are not a # on our site, someone who can potentially buy a product, or come to a training meet where I can milk them for money, or feed me with media for a magazine ..... They are people. They all have their individual stories and they are all special. I treat my members as if they were my own team... So do the other Canadian scenes... as we all carry this same primary Parkour philosophy close to heart.

I dont know if theres a scene in America that I can say the same about. Everyone seems to be preoccupied by trying to get their share of the pie of the currently really small parkour world. Who really cares about Joe blow on this site? WWJ? UF? Seriously now. Actions speak louder then words and Im confided with a lot of Americans who come to me to talk... So theres no fooling me with this nonsense. You guys have to know better then that...

Ez had as his signature on UF once before, "sticking together as a team" or something like that....

Ill tell you this. As you will see in the coming months, Canada sticks together as a country. And from East to West... we are proud to all work together, we are proud to listen to all... and we are proud to help each and every little guy out there. I wish I could say the same was the case in the USA. I really feel it could have been but the wrong steps were taking since the begining. I knew at the first NY jam I went to in 2004 things were horribly wrong.

Cheers and good luck with your ventures .. Like I said. Remember, have lots of fun, have a couple drinks for me, and have a killer time while doing it. But dont, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, use and play the little people. They are the reason we can enjoy what we do and they are the reason we are where we are. Learn from the mistakes UF made don't be doomed to repeat them.

m2 asked what my basis for all this was... I will address him now, just incase I wasnt clear.

I mean no harm, because I represent the 'little people'. We are the members of your site. =)

Cheers from Canada.

Dan

[andi k]

M2, its a sad day, a sad time, that you chose to go that way that openly and not even feeling bad for it. i was truely hoping one day it would all turn out a misunderstanding and you were still one of the good guys,  damn how blind i was.

nothing to add, dan said it all.

[Gearsighted]

You guys want to know why the Parkour scene in Canada is a lot better then the USA? It's so simple you will all laugh at this!

We care.

Dan, I still wonder why you can assume so much about so many people based solely on what you see on the internet? What do you know about my local scene? What do you know about the people I work to help every day for nothing? How has that changed in light of all of this?

I understand your concerns (and apparently Andi's too, as he just gave a blanket "I agree with Danno") but the day that I quit caring about the new kids coming in and wanting to learn is the day that I don't want to have anything to do with this any more. I can only speak for myself, and it comes off as cheesy and insincere in the face of such knee-jerk reactions, but this is actually my motivation, and it has been since I became involved in Parkour. I really love what I do, and I want to give as many people as possible the opportunity to do the same. I truly believe that what I am doing at this point is the best that I can do to help, and if I ever thought that there was something better, or that some method that I was involved in was harming more than helping, I would find a way to make it right.

As much as we'd like APK and the Tribe to be completely and totally separate, that's obviously an exercise in impossibility. We're based in the US, so when people come to the US site they will eventually hear of us. Needless to say, I can't imagine how you can equate the work we've done here as not involving the community in a positive way. If it doesn't, give me some specifics and we'll fix it! All I know is that I've been working my ass off (after work, school, family and the little bit of actual Parkour training I still have time for) to build this place up and give it the features that we felt would benefit the community. Between the time and money that has been poured into this place, it is highly doubtful that we'll ever really see a recoup on our investment, but that's totally fine. I don't put all of this time and effort into both here and va-parkour for any monetary gain, rather, I really truly want to help those in the community that I love in any way possible.

Anyway, I know that repeating this won't mean shit. Words on the internet have gotten us to this point, and I doubt that they will somehow magically get us out of this, so I'll continue to do what I do, and hopefully my actions in the end will speak loud enough. Feel free to hit me up on MSN an give me some ideas as to anything that I could do better.

[Leon Mederos]

We care.

Each and every member at the top of the scene actually gives a shit about even the smallest rookie. They are not a # on our site, someone who can potentially buy a product, or come to a training meet where I can milk them for money, or feed me with media for a magazine ..... They are people. They all have their individual stories and they are all special. I treat my members as if they were my own team... So do the other Canadian scenes... as we all carry this same primary Parkour philosophy close to heart.

Ask anyone, any rookie, intermediate, expert, etc. I care more then anyone.

I'm pretty much ready to take this the way internet forums should be taken - with the infamous


Speak to me in person if you really want the "straight answers" you say you arent getting. My cell phone is listed go ahead and call.

[andi k]

m2 stated on uf that he doesnt dislike the idea of parkour competitions.  will the tribe setup and take part in parkour competitions ?

[Erwan]

In one of my previous (French post) 3 months ago, I described the evolution of the worldwide Parkour scene as follows (summed up) :

For those wanting to OWN parkour, this is how they have to do :

First stage : First of all, they will have people forget the real purpose of parkour by replacing its values by others that fit much better to commercail use :
freedom (means everything and nothing), fun, style, entertainment. They will more or less mix it with other disciplines that has nothing to do with it.
That is prior to anything else before stepping foward to the next stage.

Second stage : Popularity. Despite obvious criticism against their true intents, they keep focusing on misleading newbies, all simply because they are their next customers, along with the companies that will be interested in targeting such customers. After they feel they are enough strong and popular within the community and medias, pretending they hold genuine values, they in fact will directly head to the principle goal : show-business,  medias, adverts, anything that is potentially money.
Of course, pretending it is not their main goal, but to "help people".

Third stage : events and competitions. The best ways to attract newbies, gain more popularity and get media exposure. No matters that competition is NOT parkour.
This simple and main value of parkour must be forgotten, buried. It is important to create ELITES that people will respect or even worship. The creation of such an elite is something totally subjective and artificial, but it is a great commercial "display".

Fourth stage : sponsoring. Such "athletes" will be sponsored by other companies, could it be clothes brands, energy bars, parkour carbon fiber helmets...Corruption, doping. Then, magazine, TV channel, more ads, more money flow.

Then retiring on an exotic island (ultimate stage).

Now, as usual, all they will say is that this is "pure assumption".
But be patient, and you WILL see. It is already there, right in front of your eyes. And that post will not change anything.
BTW, ParkourDAN's last post is so true.

And BTW too, since they CANNOT see the whole picture, this is not intended to anyone here but one :

So Mark, "ANNUIT CÅ’PTIS" ?

[M2.]

(This is directed to Dan, before Erwan's post) I have to say, I don't understand, and I don't feel you're in a position to make the assumptions you have, that this will be another site to promote a team. As a matter of fact, there's a whole Tribe website that you don't know about. your point seems to be that there's a thread about it, I'm sorry, should I ban members for talking about it so that this can be a parkour site? That's ridiculous!!! There is one announcement, and it's about 1/2 a page.

To come on here with everything you've said is cocky and stupid. Then to say that I don't care? That's just bullshit.

Go ahead, post something, anything I've done that's a lie, or STFU, I really don't appreciate your accusations, and frankly, with all your knowledge, all your French translations, and everything you think you know about, I could give a shit if you're going to be an asshole about it.

I try to help people, I know you say you do to. I didn't ASK to be brought up to the picnic table, I didn't even want to go, it was embarrassing for me because I was still announced as UF even though I knew I was leaving.

Until you Dan choose to judge me on my own merits and actions, I'm afraid I could care less about your opinions, you judge based on things you can only assume, and it's not helpful.

I could care less if you want to say bad things about APK or the Tribe, it's not ALL about business, but some of it is. So then you say you're posting knowing it will hurt that.

Great, so I'm hoping to someday make a living by HELPING people find Parkour and enjoy Parkour and have a community to discuss Parkour, and you're coming up with a load of shit and saying you don't care if it hurts that, then saying "People in Canada Care" ... that's a load of bullshit.

You know me personally, you've been a guest in my house, and I in yours, why wouldn't you handle this over an email if what you "cared" about was helping people?

If I was doing something "wrong" with this site, you could tell me in an email and suggest how to fix it. Instead you come to a public forum and call me a liar, say that I don't care, and that I'm imitating UF.

That really only leaves me in a position to think you're an ass and push against anything else you have to say.

I'm sorry to say you've really damaged what I thought was a friendship, if there was something I'm doing wrong I guess it's going to continue, because I really can't value your opinion now.

[andi k]

m2 stated on uf that he doesnt dislike the idea of parkour competitions.  will the tribe setup and take part in parkour competitions ?

no answer mark ?

[M2.]

Erwan, the TOP thing on this site talks about what Parkour is, not making it pretty or attractive to anyone, NOT saying it should be flashy or fun (although I do stand by the fact that it is fun to me, just like grueling hours spent training martial arts is "fun" to me) and not trying to attract anyone that isn't interested in it. I've spent all of my time on the forum lately trying to tell someone that Freestyle parkour isn't what parkour is for, that it's a separate activity. So, if you feel I'm guilty of trying to mislead the crowd on what Parkour is, then correct my words, tell me how to change my site, tell me what I am doing wrong.

Coming here, calling me a liar and accusing me of selling out parkour to retire on an island will not help things any, as it sets us as opposite ends in an "argument" instead of setting us a friends on the "same side" of something.

If by saying that the Tribe is a team I have moved to the third or fourth stage of Parkour world domination, then I apologize, I guess we are already at the level of Yamakazi, TCT, the Undead Porcupines, TT, and any other clan out there who's obvious goal is to mislead people.


If anyone has any question on the matter, I will state very clearly for the record.

I hope to make a living surrounding Parkour.
I see several ways to do this:

1. Teach fitness that will allow people to become more proficient at parkour, balance, and perhaps even self-defense.
2. Teach the basic movements that comprise most of the common movements used in parkour.
3. Sell T-shirts that say "Parkour" on them or other things that will interest people who do Parkour
4. Use the skills that a group (the Tribe) has acquired to do media jobs which pay money.

Now, please tell me which of those goals hurts Parkour and how? parkour btw, for the record, is an inanimate thing, it has no feelings, it is not a being, it is an activity, a way of training to be able to avoid an emergency situation.

Then, tell me how to fix it, or better yet, tell me how to do it better, so that I can still do what I want, which is help people, but I can do it better.

(edit: spellchecked)