Topic: www.worldwidejam.tv

[klaymen]

just went over there for the first time. it was.....meh. didn't like some of the things on there such as:

Not only does the alliance enable the U.K. and U.S. divisions to pool their enormous resources, it also creates a plethora of unique, Anglo-American marketing opportunities for traceurs and international corporate partners.

i am generally against anything that tries to capitalize on parkour. i don't know, it just seems like this is going to be another UF..... any thoughts?

[Mark Toorock]

Well, I'm probably most qualified to answer since I'm responsible. Not solely, but I'm responsible, because I am part of the team who will bring you WorldWide Jam. (http://www.worldwidejam.tv/team.jam.parkour.html)

That statement is clearly meant for marketers and potential advertisers. Yes, it is meant to profit off Parkour.

The question that I ask myself is "what is good about this" and "what is bad about this" ...

To me it comes up that it is good (and fun) to have a magazine for Parkour, something that gets it out on the shelves and brings it up a notch in terms of validity, in hopes that someday it will be a normally accepted practice.

I also hope to someday make my own living off it, which does mean that a few bucks at a time I will try to give someone value for their money, enough times to live comfortably, raise kids, and feed my dog.


What's bad about it: You can't always be too picky about the advertisers and their message, so you have to rely somewhat on the reader to determine if chocolate bars will make them better athletes.


I know this is going to sound harsh, but I won't justify the process of trying to make money to anyone less than 24 and living out of their parent's house. You'll have to trust me that it is true that whatever other knowledge you have, and however smart you are, there is just no way that you could understand what it means to HAVE to make a living. Therefore you're really in no position to judge. (this is not aimed at Klaymen, I just know what's coming next).

Think of it this way, would you rather do something parkour related for a living, or work ion a cube in an office a-la Neo in the matrix style for the rest of your life? It really is that boring and worse, and people with office jobs are actually the lucky ones.


For many many people life after college just isn't any fun - SSDD. I refuse to fall into that. I'm going to strive to do good things and have fun doing them the whole time I'm riding the big blue marble, and for me that does mean trying to make my living from something I love, and I've chosen Parkour over Martial arts and snowboarding because I see a lot more potential, not only financially, but in the net good I feel it does for the world.

Hopefully I've answered most people's questions in advance, believe me, I've seen all the questions before

[BULLFROG]

well the only thing i have a problem with...its not you mark, its just the overall commercialization of parkour.

i never liked how UF used parkour or "their parkour" to sell anything and everything. especially for ads and such, to me its seemed they never portrayed parkour right...just trying to make money off of it.

what i mean is when someone takes advantage of parkour and uses it for their own personal gain to make a profit on it and change it and mold it specifically for them (i.e UF's freestyle thing they had going on). i really don't approve...i just hope that you and your team if/when get into the business world of media and the like, that you portray parkour correctly.

Think of it this way, would you rather do something parkour related for a living, or work ion a cube in an office a-la Neo in the matrix style for the rest of your life? It really is that boring and worse, and people with office jobs are actually the lucky ones.

if anyone gets a job in media to do parkour for a living, i.e kerbie and luke, I'm fine with that...good for them, but just hoping that parkour is being shown in its true nature.

just my $0.02

p.s

(this is not aimed at Klaymen, I just know what's coming next).

hehe..you know people to well

[Skipper]

Well, I think people's reaction to the entire UF situation was disapproval of HOW they were making money. If someone can make money off parkour, I think that is fine, but UF doesnt profit off of parkour, they profit off of their own little sport version that they CALL parkour.

I have complete faith that any team that M2 is involved with in the near future will depict parkour correctly, and if any money is made off of correctly depicting parkour... then i will be overly excited about "actual" parkour being popularized, more people to train with, more attention and permissions.. more good than bad could come of it. The fact that the BIGGEST depiction of parkour (uf) was an incorrect depiction gave everyone a bad taste of what parkour+media is equal to. M2 has a chance to turn that around, and im sure he will do great in doing so! 

[BULLFROG]

Well, I think people's reaction to the entire UF situation was disapproval of HOW they were making money. If someone can make money off parkour, I think that is fine, but UF doesn't profit off of parkour, they profit off of their own little sport version that they CALL parkour.

yeah thats what i meant, they profit off of their parkour, but still use the parkour term

The fact that the BIGGEST depiction of parkour (uf) was an incorrect depiction gave everyone a bad taste of what parkour+media is equal to. M2 has a chance to turn that around, and I'm sure he will do great in doing so! 

and people will still believe whatever uf/ez says which is sad....as many people have stated before, UF has sent the wrong message or depiction of parkour from the beginning. hopefully M2 and worldwidejam team do depict parkour correctly as per David Belle.

[Michael Zernow]

Now i'm not saying that i agree with a lot of things UF has done, but i've never understood how people can blame others for "selling out." I know that if i had a chance to do something i loved for a living i would definitely do it, because like M2 said, life can get pretty boring with a job you don't enjoy. And you may think  that it's all bad, and a lot of it is diluting the idea of what parkour is, but what it does do is create an interest in parkour, even if it is in a sideways manner. What i think is important is that M2 and the WJ team will do is promote a  more competent idea of what parkour is to the world. All the people that come in with the misconceptions they have about parkour can be taught what it's really all about. I think WJ has the possiblity to do some really good things for parkour.

[coastal96]

I'm a newb and I'm still exploring and learning all the ins and outs of the art of Parkour from all perspectives.  But I'd absolutely have no problem with someone making a buck off Parkour.  However, the way one goes about making the almighty dollar is the important thing.  If you stay true to the art, yourself, and those involved and don't sell out on your morals and values to make that $$$ . . . then all is good IMO.

I'm in the older crowd with the boring office job so it's easier for me to get it I guess 

[Mark Toorock]

One thing I am concerned with here is what people's perception of "Portraying Parkour Correctly" in relation to media opportunities means.

Most media opportunities will call for some mix of activities, Parkour, Acrobatics, maybe even Martial Arts and stuntwork.

I think that people should be mindful, before just calling UF "a bunch of sellouts" to see exactly WHAT UF did, and where they went about calling it Parkour or Freestyle Parkour.

I feel there is a lot of "bandwagon" anger pointed at UF that is not based on people's own experiences and perceptions, and this is a shame. Each person and thing deserves to be judged on it's own merit, even UF and the things they do.

I too disapprove of the term "Freestyle Parkour", however I see this as a separate issue to whether they did certain media works for money, not all of those media works were in conflict of any morals or any obligation to uphold a correct definition of Parkour.

I caution this because I think people will find that as people in the US develop PK skills I will be asked more and more to supply talent for VARIOUS kinds of media appearances, some of them may be pure PK, some may not. It will be up to you to then judge based on the context of the actual work if PK has been sold out.

I can tell you that I answer to one person, myself, and I am not a sellout. I will not ever purposely allow someone to mis-portray something and call it Parkour, nor would I do anything to purposely harm Parkour's reputation in the world.

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't do a TV commercial with both Parkour and Tricking in it, and it is in this detail that I feel people often get caught up in the "bandwagon" mentality.

Unless you see someone breakdancing or tricking and saying "this is parkour" then you really can't say that they are misrepresenting Parkour, just as we cannot say that David Belle doing a flip in a video alongside Parkour makes that flip Parkour or misrepresents parkour.

[Rice]

Well M2, I hope it goes well for you in your endeavor to do what you love, for a a means of living.  I have always been one who would also want to profit off of Parkour or some other sport and with my recent contacts, those who have experience in stunt work and other various ways of commercialization and acting, I hope that one day I will also be one who can do what I love, and profit from it.  I'd give you hints of where I plan to go, but I wouldnt want anyone to steal my ideas (har har)

So my best of luck to ya on this.

[ERI104]

I feel as though UF is currently on the downward slope. seems as though everyone is leaving that place. Ever since M2 left UF has been going downhill. anyway, definatly want to see some more parkour in the media...unfortunatly many people i try to explain parkour to get the wrong impression until i take them to the back of my school and actually show them what IS and what ISN'T parkour. GOOD LUCK M2 IN FINDING A KICK ASS PK-RELATED JOB!!!!

[Mark Toorock]

unfortunately many people i try to explain parkour to get the wrong impression until i take them to the back of my school and actually show them what IS and what ISN'T parkour

Check out the thread "How do you explain Parkour to people" .. maybe you can pick up some tips


Edit: I put that first sentence in quotes for ya, thanks me later
-skipper

Edit: I fixed the spelling mistake on "unfortunately" 
-akh

Edit: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
-skipper

Edit: I didn't change anything but I just wanted to add my .02...
-gear

Edit: Get your own damn thread!!!
-M2

[antwawn]

Listen, now, lets not turn this thread into another debate about the object of parkour. M2 isn't in danger of misrepresenting what PK means to its practioners, he's a veteran of PK. Also, its not his job to editorialize, or Worldwide Parkour's job to editorialize, they are only a TV station broadcasting news, events, and videos of Parkour. Just like any TV station or magazine dedicated to a sport, the idea is to make money and provide an awesome service that people are interested in and want to view. Its not an outlet to try to teach the public about what is parkour and what's freestyle whatever. UF on the other hand is a performing group, they make money making performances. Their little Freestyle Parkour is for another discussion, but who's gonna tell someone they can't make money by creating a magazine and TV station dedicated to spreading information about something that people are interested in? Its not like anyone is hurting PK by broadcasting it, "Jump Britain", or whatever the documentary was called, made the BBC some money, no doubt, but they also opened the world's eyes to the sport and boosted the membership.

[klaymen]

i understand where you are coming from M2. i may be young, but i do understand a thing or two about needing to make money or starve. My concern is just like other people's about whether or not it will be represented correctly. however, i am very confident that you know what parkour is and what it isn't. I just hope that you will be able to keep the magazine from misrepresenting it. i disagree with the statement above. if you are broadcasting a message, then you have a responsibility to not screw things up. i am sure there will be articles in the magazine, not just pictures. if it claims that parkour is all about whatever you make it, then many people are going to have a problem with that.

[Mark Toorock]

I agree Klaymen.

The magazine makes no guarantee that it will ONLY talk about Parkour, so people shouldn't expect that. However when the magazine does represetn something as Parkour, it should be a correct representation.

Same for a TV channel.

As I mentioned above, advertising can't always be as clear, because the guy drinking a coke can't say "this is / isn't parkour at this moment" and the movements could be intertwined. To me, as long as nobody says "this is parkour" then does tricking, etc, then no foul has been commited. I don't think any of the commercials so far (nike, scion, etc) have said "This commerical features Parkour" and therefore I don't feel anyone can say they misrepresented anyhting.

[antwawn]

Got any ideas when the TV station will start broadcasting? And what about the magazine, where can I get it?

[Mark Toorock]

Check out www.worldwidejam.tv for all info on the mag and TV channel

[gameyy]

I'd have to agree with M2 on the bandwagon mentality against UF. While none of us probably agree with all of the decisions they've made, keep in mind that many of us wouldn't have been here without them, and for what it's worth, they've done a lot to inform the public about parkour (pk days, workshops). So try not to get too caught up in the anti-UF sentiments, even if it seems like that's the cool thing to do.

Another thing to keep in mind in all of this is the whole "putting yourself in someone else's shoes". As has been well outlined in previous posts, the choice between a boring office job and one that promotes parkour is an obvious one for most. I could get myself hired for a design firm, making up pretty signs and logos, but instead I've focused on designing for the parkour community, doing shirts, graphics, logos, and animations. While I'm not yet making a living off of it, that's my goal. Should I be considered a sell-out?

It's your call, I suppose.

-gameyy

[CyanideSoda]

I actually like UF quite a bit. Just don't like there forums. 

[The Manilla Gorilla]

i agree, with everyone talking abot how M2 shold stay tre to the art of parkor (on my keyboard the key between y and i is broken so dont think im retarded) bt (remeber the y and i thing) i think that since yo started this website yo might be looked at as the spokesperson for american parkor. So this project of yor is going to be tied ito american parkor in general, meaning that alot of closed minded people will see this as the big bad americans trying to commercilize(sp?) parkor. so maybee yo shold make a disclaimer seperating  the worlwidejam from american parkor ... or whatever... im not going to tell yo what to do yo seem like yo know what yore doing, and are an accomplished tracers ( the broken key stikres again). That being said i whole heartedly wish yo lck with this, and i REALLY hope it goes well it cold have jmp brittian potential.