Topic: Is this bodyweight program good?

[Tony]

http://www.wesleyan.edu/athletics/strength/trainingplans/Bodyweight_Strength_Trning.pdf
I found this program. I've been doing my own program at home, but I don't think it was intense enough. My parents have definitely noticed mroe definition in my muscles, but I was mostly only doing a few exercises.

I had been doing:
4x10-15 pushups with feet elevated on a basketball
Box Jumps 2 sets til exhaustion
6 100 meter sprints
4 30-35-40-45 second RKC planks
4x10-14ish Pull ups. (2 sets wide grip, 2 sets close)

I felt for strength training I should build on it. I didn't really know where to go with it.

I want to try the program I linked. After I'm done with it (It's 12 weeks btw), I think I'll give my own program another chance. Of course with necessary changes.


Thoughts and suggestions?

[Joe Brock]

For strength?  No, it's not really a good program.  Check the stickies, as you're doing more hypertrophy work (getting bigger, but not really stronger) than strength work.

This program that you've posted is actually worse than what you were previously doing, IMHO.  It's all silly high-rep work, which makes you sore and feel like you're doing something, but doesn't really help strength at all.

EDIT: I only point this out because you asked, but in all efforts to increase strength, the only option is to make things harder so that your body will adapt over time.  In the case of body-weight work, this is normally accomplished by decreasing leverage.  If it's possible to add weight (such as in the pull-ups) that's also a very viable option.

Why limit yourself to doing 20 pull-up rep sets, when you could do something like a set of 5 one-armed chins or do a pull-up set with a couple of plates hanging off of a dip belt?  Go.  Be awesome!

[Tony]

For strength?  No, it's not really a good program.  Check the stickies, as you're doing more hypertrophy work (getting bigger, but not really stronger) than strength work.

This program that you've posted is actually worse than what you were previously doing, IMHO.  It's all silly high-rep work, which makes you sore and feel like you're doing something, but doesn't really help strength at all.

EDIT: I only point this out because you asked, but in all efforts to increase strength, the only option is to make things harder so that your body will adapt over time.  In the case of body-weight work, this is normally accomplished by decreasing leverage.  If it's possible to add weight (such as in the pull-ups) that's also a very viable option.

Why limit yourself to doing 20 pull-up rep sets, when you could do something like a set of 5 one-armed chins or do a pull-up set with a couple of plates hanging off of a dip belt?  Go.  Be awesome!

Alrightt. I think I'll take your suggestion and just increase the difficulty of what I'm doing to build strength. I think I was just expecting to know WHEN I should up the difficulty. I realize now that it's intuition based.
I think just with the low rep stuff, I dont feel like I'm doing much when I am. It feels bad to be only able to do 1 of something 'x' amount of times.

[Joe Brock]

It's intuition at a certain point, but if you're doing sets of 20 or more...then it's beyond time.  I normally would suggest increasing difficulty if you can exceed 12 reps of any exercise that uses a rep system (as Isometrics must be treated differently.)

You should certainly check out http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/03/the-fundamentals-of-bodyweight-strength-training/, because Steven and Chris have assembled some very useful information for bodyweight work.  If you're really into it, Steven has written a book on the subject of bodyweight work.

There's always a great deal to learn, and after you've reached a certain level of training...you'll be able to spot good and bad plans on your own, be able to use intuition to determine what you need to be training, and just know when you're ready for new skills.  When you're in the beginner and intermediate levels of training it's good to use the sense of people who have been there to help guide you to not make some of the same mistakes that they did.

[Josh Vernier]

Another good resource is a book called Convict Conditioning. You can find at at Dragon Door's website. It's slightly pricy, but definitely worth every cent. It's got progressions to get up to the big six bodyweight movements: the pistol, the one-arm pushup, the one-arm pullup, the stand-to-stand bridge (really cool to watch), the one-arm handstand pushup, and the hanging leg raise. Anyway, it's a great program. Since I'm such a big Pavel fan, I might as well also plug The Naked Warrior. It's another book about bodyweight strength on Dragon Door.

[Tony]

It's intuition at a certain point, but if you're doing sets of 20 or more...then it's beyond time.  I normally would suggest increasing difficulty if you can exceed 12 reps of any exercise that uses a rep system (as Isometrics must be treated differently.)

You should certainly check out http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/03/the-fundamentals-of-bodyweight-strength-training/, because Steven and Chris have assembled some very useful information for bodyweight work.  If you're really into it, Steven has written a book on the subject of bodyweight work.

There's always a great deal to learn, and after you've reached a certain level of training...you'll be able to spot good and bad plans on your own, be able to use intuition to determine what you need to be training, and just know when you're ready for new skills.  When you're in the beginner and intermediate levels of training it's good to use the sense of people who have been there to help guide you to not make some of the same mistakes that they did.

So I'm reading that article by Steven and Chris. I feel as if I should tack on a little more to my routine, and reduce reps but increase intensity.

Here is what I have so far:

Upper Push:
4x3-8 harder difficulty push up variations (Any suggestions? I do about 40 pushups flatground, and somewhere around 20 with feet on a basketball)
Planche progressions (Starting with frogstand, I can do one with bent arms for about 40 seconds. I want to get it with straight arms, though)

Upper Pull:
4x3-12 pullups of higher intensity (I might need to buy resistance bands?
Inverted Rows work (I need to find somewhere to do them and I'm not quite sure what I can do with them now)
Flag stand work?

Legs:
6 or so 100m sprints (I usually leave this to the end because I have asthma and this kicks my a** )
Box Jumps till exhuastion (Do I need resistance bands or weights to make it harder? I usually get about 30 till im tired, but i usually dont give up till 40-50)
And One Legged Squats (Building into pistols)

Core:
1x30 sec RKC plank
1x35 sec RKC plank
1x40 sec RKC plank
1x45 sec RKC plank

Skill work:
Working Handstands (5-10 minutes)
L sit works (Not quite sure what I can do with this yet.

Flexibility:
Splits work
+ other warmup exercises and stretching

Goals:
Be able to do the splits (Shorter term)
Be able to hold a planche (Longest term goal)
10 consecutive pistols with good form (Medium term)
Be able to hold a flagstand for 15 seconds (Medium term)
30 second free handstand (Short term)
10 good 1 arm pushups (medium term?)
10 good 1 arm pull ups (medium term?)

I just really need suggestions for increasing difficulty of my push and pull exercises. I'm guessing I should just buy resistance bands and weight I can put into a backpack or something? I'm also going to be looking into buying some training rings for my pull work.


Anyone have thoughts on my new routine?

Another good resource is a book called Convict Conditioning. You can find at at Dragon Door's website. It's slightly pricy, but definitely worth every cent. It's got progressions to get up to the big six bodyweight movements: the pistol, the one-arm pushup, the one-arm pullup, the stand-to-stand bridge (really cool to watch), the one-arm handstand pushup, and the hanging leg raise. Anyway, it's a great program. Since I'm such a big Pavel fan, I might as well also plug The Naked Warrior. It's another book about bodyweight strength on Dragon Door.

I'll look into it!

[Joe Brock]

That is actually pretty well constructed.  10 Consecutive One-armed pull-ups...that's beastmode right there.

As far as adding weight to the chins, you can put plates into a backpack if you have them.  If you don't have any iron plates around, you can simply add anything that you can stick in the pack in there.  Water bottles that are full, whatever you need to get some extra weight.  A really big rock would work if that's what you can get.

The L-sit can eventually progress into a manna progression, which is a pretty nifty skill.  It also has a good deal of carry-over to many parkour-related skills.

To finish your system:  What days do you plan to do what?  Are you planning a certain group of exercises on certain days?

[Tony]

That is actually pretty well constructed.  10 Consecutive One-armed pull-ups...that's beastmode right there.

As far as adding weight to the chins, you can put plates into a backpack if you have them.  If you don't have any iron plates around, you can simply add anything that you can stick in the pack in there.  Water bottles that are full, whatever you need to get some extra weight.  A really big rock would work if that's what you can get.

The L-sit can eventually progress into a manna progression, which is a pretty nifty skill.  It also has a good deal of carry-over to many parkour-related skills.

To finish your system:  What days do you plan to do what?  Are you planning a certain group of exercises on certain days?

What do you mean by certain days? I had always assumed that I would just do MWF and do all of the exercises listed here (I'm still new to the whole sporty and working out thing, I used to be scrawny and on the video games all day (I'm still pretty scrawny, 110lbs). But during 8th grade and last year I've become a lot different and I actually have muscle. I'm becoming a sophomore in highschool for the next school year.

I was going to do a MWF cycle for 8 weeks or so, take a rest week, reevaluate goals, redesign, and go at it again.

[Steve Low]

That routine sounds fine.

If you're going to buy a book I would suggest Overcoming Gravity over any of the other books as I know it has quality information in it.

CC's programming is definitely a weakness.

[Nick Fernandez]

Suggestions for harder push-ups are to start decreasing leverage, so basically do them with your feet on top of a chair, table, bed, or anything that puts them higher up. Also maybe handstand pushups, although I'm not sure how that would affect planche progressions. But that's just the general idea.

Another good idea for adding weight to pull-ups is putting books into a backpack (duh! ). You probably have a bunch of old textbooks or notebooks laying around, you might as well use them. Just a couple of hardcover books can add enough weight already

If you're going to buy a book I would suggest Overcoming Gravity

Hahaha of course

[Tony]

That routine sounds fine.

If you're going to buy a book I would suggest Overcoming Gravity over any of the other books as I know it has quality information in it.

CC's programming is definitely a weakness.

I'll look into it. Once I get back from vacation, I'll pull out some money and order it.

Suggestions for harder push-ups are to start decreasing leverage, so basically do them with your feet on top of a chair, table, bed, or anything that puts them higher up. Also maybe handstand pushups, although I'm not sure how that would affect planche progressions. But that's just the general idea.

Another good idea for adding weight to pull-ups is putting books into a backpack (duh! ). You probably have a bunch of old textbooks or notebooks laying around, you might as well use them. Just a couple of hardcover books can add enough weight already

Hahaha of course

Thanks for the book idea. I have TONS of books in my house (My mom's a teacher and my dad reads like 3 novels a month, he's really into horror). I'll see what height is my breaking point and work down from there.

Thanks for the great advice guys!

[Joe Brock]

If you're going to buy a book I would suggest Overcoming Gravity over any of the other books as I know it has quality information in it.

 

[Tony]

One last question...


I'm not going to lie and say I don't care about getting abs. It sounds a little vain, but it would be nice to have them. I mean, who doesn't like having them?

Would I have to add more corework? I want actual abs, not the ones you see the kids on facebook posting. Like when they're leaning back and flexing to make it look like they have them.

[Scott Eustice]

Visible six-pack abs require low bodyfat percentages. Specific ab work really won't help you get six-pack abs. Changing your diet will.

Some ab work could be supplemental if your abs are weaker than your lower back, but for the most part ab work should be integrated into more important skills, such as squats, deadlifts, front/ back levers, L-sit/ manna progression, and planches.

If you need more ab work due to a muscular imbalance, hanging leg raises are good and can be done almost anywhere. I have heard that ab work should be done for higher reps, so, don't worry about adding weight for a while. Someone more qualified than me might disagree, and I would defer to their experience.

But pretty much, six-pack abs are made by low bodyfat percentages. This is accomplished by changing your diet.

[Tony]

Visible six-pack abs require low bodyfat percentages. Specific ab work really won't help you get six-pack abs. Changing your diet will.

Some ab work could be supplemental if your abs are weaker than your lower back, but for the most part ab work should be integrated into more important skills, such as squats, deadlifts, front/ back levers, L-sit/ manna progression, and planches.

If you need more ab work due to a muscular imbalance, hanging leg raises are good and can be done almost anywhere. I have heard that ab work should be done for higher reps, so, don't worry about adding weight for a while. Someone more qualified than me might disagree, and I would defer to their experience.

But pretty much, six-pack abs are made by low bodyfat percentages. This is accomplished by changing your diet.

I had 2% bodyfat at the beginning of school last year, 5% at the end. But I did put on muscle and not just fat. I weight 110 lbs. I've always been really skinny.

[Scott Eustice]

2%? Really? How did you find that out?

The amount of essential fat on the body to survive is 2-4% at a minimum for guys.

Below this level, and you will suffer serious medical complications. Possibly death.

I think that whoever told you you had 2% bodyfat was doing something incorrectly.

How tall are you? Your hiehgt and weight together will give us a better impression of how big you are.

Either way, if you are that small, then you need to put on weight, for any of these goals.

What is your diet like? Because you are probably going to need to eat a whole lot more.

[Tony]

2%? Really? How did you find that out?

The amount of essential fat on the body to survive is 2-4% at a minimum for guys.

Below this level, and you will suffer serious medical complications. Possibly death.

I think that whoever told you you had 2% bodyfat was doing something incorrectly.

How tall are you? Your hiehgt and weight together will give us a better impression of how big you are.

Either way, if you are that small, then you need to put on weight, for any of these goals.

What is your diet like? Because you are probably going to need to eat a whole lot more.

It was for PE. We had a scale thing.

I'm 5' 6
I weigh 112 lbs
I don't really have a diet yet, I know I need one.

I need to eat a lot more. I eat a lot of protein, though. I have steak/chicken almost everyday. I don't drink milk because I gag because I used to have severe allergies to the protein in it (Not lactose). I drink easily 1.5 times the amount of recommended water a day.

[Joe Brock]

If your scale said that you were at 2% BF...your scale thingy was probably not working.

[Tony]

If your scale said that you were at 2% BF...your scale thingy was probably not working.

Yeah, Idk what happened with it. But that's what it said I was.

[Nick Fernandez]

I don't think those BF calculators/scales in PE are very reliable. I remember getting mine and I was ~20% or higher and I know I'm nowhere near that.