Author Topic: National Governing Body in the US???  (Read 1314 times)

Offline Steven Boutcher

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National Governing Body in the US???
« on: June 06, 2012, 08:20:47 AM »
So, I'd like to start by saying I'm just graduating high school and will be going off to college in La Crosse, Wisconsin, in the fall, and I've been practicing parkour for 2 years, becoming aware of the unfair political controversy plaguing the promising discipline 1 year into my training.

I have done a decent amount of research, and I don't know if this idea has been presented on this site yet, but what do you think about copying the UK's idea of a national governing body for instruction within the discipline?

It seems to have acquired for parkour a level of legitimacy in the UK, and if we had one in the US, the experienced traceurs who want to teach may come out of their shells.  As someone who wants to teach it someday, I empathize with others like me when it comes to the discouraging, well, OCEAN, between the global hub of parkour instruction certification.  It may not be too crazy to say we could link our governing body with THEIRS, and we could eventually have enough ADAPT instructors in the US to gain at the very least a small level of legitimacy.

What are your thoughts on this?
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Offline Ryan A. Vetter

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2012, 09:25:15 AM »
So, I'd like to start by saying I'm just graduating high school and will be going off to college in La Crosse, Wisconsin, in the fall, and I've been practicing parkour for 2 years, becoming aware of the unfair political controversy plaguing the promising discipline 1 year into my training.

I have done a decent amount of research, and I don't know if this idea has been presented on this site yet, but what do you think about copying the UK's idea of a national governing body for instruction within the discipline?

It seems to have acquired for parkour a level of legitimacy in the UK, and if we had one in the US, the experienced traceurs who want to teach may come out of their shells.  As someone who wants to teach it someday, I empathize with others like me when it comes to the discouraging, well, OCEAN, between the global hub of parkour instruction certification.  It may not be too crazy to say we could link our governing body with THEIRS, and we could eventually have enough ADAPT instructors in the US to gain at the very least a small level of legitimacy.

What are your thoughts on this?
Based on how long it takes the American culture to catch onto Europe's, you can make a safe bet that it'll be another four to five years before this happens. That said even with our legal system processing takes an unfortunately long time. Beyond this scope I like the idea, but I'd never be one to fall under such practice.

So long as I have parkour I'm okay.

Offline Steven Boutcher

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2012, 09:30:00 AM »
What do mean by "fall under such practice?"  Is it that you wouldn't want to be part of the governing body or you wouldn't want to be governed by it?
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Offline Joe Brock

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2012, 09:35:25 AM »
I believe that if implemented, it would become much like the ACE is currently.  You'd still be just as well off finding someone who simply knows more than you, and in many cases, the non-certified would be far more useful than those that had completed the course.

It's a nice concept, but I don't think that it's even a tiny bit necessary or that it would actually help the art.
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Offline Steven Boutcher

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2012, 09:40:27 AM »
It's a difficult decision.  If you have a certification to back up your claim that you are a good teacher, it will be much easier to gain legitimacy for parkour.  If you think about how it is in the world of martial arts, they have a belt system and some teachers even have college degrees in their martial art.  It's hard to teach tae kwon do if you don't have those kinds of credentials.  Parkour won't be any different the way I see things.
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Offline Joe Brock

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2012, 09:43:38 AM »
I agree that it would be a reflection of martial arts.

Many teachers would be talented and driven, but most would be like the ATA (ahem).  There would be an influx of 50-year-old fat guys trying to take the hard-earned money of teenagers.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't make it more presentable to the general public, but it would also function to pervert the art.
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Offline Steven Boutcher

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2012, 09:46:58 AM »
That's definitely something to consider.  Parkour should belong to the practitioners.  Hopefully the certification program in the US would be like the ADAPT program in the UK, requiring the teachers to know the art and the philosophy before they can teach.  The outcome you described is inevitable unless the practitioners take charge of creating the governing body.  We all know how government is in the hands of politicians.
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Offline Alec Furtado

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2012, 10:18:10 AM »
A -national- governing body isn't quite our style, nor the United States', but multiple organizations essentially have -a- governing body in the works already.

I have no qualms with it. It's really nothing but certs and paperwork with an air of authority. Without hard work and effective practice it won't amount to anything anyway. The poor quality certs will get weeded out (since the community will criticize the crap out of it) and the good certs will become prevalent enough to become the standard.
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Offline Ryan A. Vetter

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2012, 11:06:31 AM »
What do mean by "fall under such practice?"  Is it that you wouldn't want to be part of the governing body or you wouldn't want to be governed by it?
I'd become a part of neither, I don't want to see somebody lording over me on some pseudo-authority. I don't want to become more arrogant than I already am.

So long as I have parkour I'm okay.

Offline Alec Furtado

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2012, 12:14:44 PM »
I'd become a part of neither, I don't want to see somebody lording over me on some pseudo-authority.
An irrational conclusion. You've already decided the shape the organization will take, which is ridiculous. Nobody here would support an organization like that.
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Offline Ryan A. Vetter

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2012, 12:42:04 PM »
An irrational conclusion. You've already decided the shape the organization will take, which is ridiculous. Nobody here would support an organization like that.
You can't speak on behalf of everybody, only yourself, and that just seems to be the way it would be.

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Offline Steven Boutcher

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2012, 03:20:58 PM »
Perhaps if there was a way we could know how it has worked so far in the UK, we would be able to draw a rational conclusion for how it would unfold in our own country.  I have no quarrel with eventually having a global standard for instruction (and let's face it, without a good standard for our instructors, the discipline will fall apart), but there's something to be said for building from the ground up.

All it SHOULD be is "certs and paperwork with an air of authority."  Anything too pushy will likely get booted out or heavily criticized by those who don't want to see traceurs gridlocked by rules and borders, which is likely the majority of those who are active in this discipline.
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Offline Ryan A. Vetter

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2012, 03:52:08 PM »
Perhaps if there was a way we could know how it has worked so far in the UK, we would be able to draw a rational conclusion for how it would unfold in our own country.  I have no quarrel with eventually having a global standard for instruction (and let's face it, without a good standard for our instructors, the discipline will fall apart), but there's something to be said for building from the ground up.

All it SHOULD be is "certs and paperwork with an air of authority."  Anything too pushy will likely get booted out or heavily criticized by those who don't want to see traceurs gridlocked by rules and borders, which is likely the majority of those who are active in this discipline.

We're all instructors, you can't phase out people's morals; those who don't abide by the certifications will be labeled "bad" instructors, and those who do have them are "qualified" instructors, and can still be "good/bad."

So long as I have parkour I'm okay.

Offline Alec Furtado

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2012, 07:15:57 PM »
You can't speak on behalf of everybody, only yourself, and that just seems to be the way it would be.
I have yet to see anybody "lording" over anybody. As I said, I know a number of people with certs and dealing & developing certs and this is not the case. In fact, the purpose of certification goes nowhere near that. Certification is a tool, not a status.


Anyway rereading the OP, the answer is this: certs do exist in the US. For the most part, they are still spreading and being tested, but they do exist. As far as ADAPT certs being available in the US? I think they've already done one in Ohio last year or something. I'm not sure if they're doing more (their site http://www.adaptqualifications.com/courses-dates/ doesn't seem to indicate that they are). However, they do list several places that are "capable of delivering the ADAPT Qualification without supervision from ADAPT Qualifications Ltd." Maybe you could be one of the people to help make one here ;)
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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2012, 08:15:52 PM »
APK offers a certification for instructors - in fact, we recently ran one that was quite full and I expect that everyone did quite well. Due to popular demand, we have another one in June and one in August.

Our goal for the cert is this: The Parkour Instructor Certification Program promotes the healthy growth of parkour and freerunning by providing useful and relevant information about the disciplines, their training practices, histories, and philosophies to those who coach others in attaining their potential through movement.

Our view on it is this: APK certified instructors will be very well qualified to teach Parkour. If an APK certified instructor cannot walk the walk, then the cert is useless, and will die out. Our cert is also an evolving process, each time we run it we use the new information learned to make it better. People who take the cert are entitled to any updates we make to the APK Academy curriculum as long as their cert is in good standing (retesting every 2 years). We will also have APK affiliated facilities, one of the qualifications will be that they must have an APK certified instructor, this is the only way we can insure that they are a very qualified and safe instructor.

This doesn't mean that other people can't and won't be great instructors - even using vastly different techniques and curricula, but obviously we have no way to verify every coach's qualifications unless they have been through our certification. Similarly, if a facility doesn't have an APK certified coach, then we will not help them get insurance, as we will only expose our insurer to a known-safe curriculum and responsible instructors.
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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2012, 08:18:29 PM »
BTW, we are still accepting applications - each time we run the cert we give it for free ($600 value) to two college students, so that we can help perpetuate safe training in college clubs. This is a great benefit to the clubs, and gives them quite a bit of credibility. This past time we had students from Virginia Tech and University of Michigan. Email m2 at americanparkour dot com if interested.
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Offline 7Erik7

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2012, 11:47:58 PM »
I personally think certifications for parkour/freerunning is more or less required. Truth is, a official certificate will be developed [/i]sooner or later[/i] by someone or some people. The gymnastic coaches in the UK is keen to teach freerunning and if they were fast enough (which they weren't) they could had been running the Governing body for parkour/freerunning now.  Really, the A.D.A.P.T just tells that you're a qualified teacher. It means that you teach parkour/freerunning and not something else. You get endorsed by the founders which in my opinion is the best qualification you can get.

What I'd like to see is A.D.A.P.T US, A.D.A.P.T Germany, A.D.A.P.T this and that etc. A the moment the qualification has to be earned in the UK and the instructors has to be quality and tested each year - in the UK - as far as I know. Its not that accessible, and if parkour is about to set its marks in other countries its required.

Offline bryan

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2012, 08:33:31 AM »
It's a difficult decision.  If you have a certification to back up your claim that you are a good teacher, it will be much easier to gain legitimacy for parkour.  If you think about how it is in the world of martial arts, they have a belt system and some teachers even have college degrees in their martial art.  It's hard to teach tae kwon do if you don't have those kinds of credentials.  Parkour won't be any different the way I see things.


belt systems don't work. Nor does any form of hierarchy in that matter. All you need is a lot of money to buy rank. Its shady, but it happens every where (including martial arts).
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Offline Mark Toorock

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2012, 02:00:49 PM »
Bryan, while belt systems do have drawbacks, I feel that saying "they don't work" is a very one sided and blanket view. There are plenty of things that DO work in belt systems and plenty of places where they are applied in a positive manner. Jiujitsu is one example, if you meet a black belt, they are qualified, there is no question of that. While many martial arts (for lack of a better term) have perverted these systems, that doesn't mean the systems themselves are bad, just misused. Saying that no form of hierarchy works is in my opinion a very ignorant statement. Most forms of learning are hierarchical. If they don't work for you that may be one thing, but saying that "no form of it works" is simply one sided, black and white.

I'd be interested to hear what people think the positives and negatives are, and how people feel that both classes and certifications should be organized.

Should students be ranked or grouped? If not, how do you teach a group of varying experience and ability and keep the material pertinent for everyone?

Should instructors be ranked or grouped? If so, what should the qualifications be? If not, how do you know when someone is qualified to teach?

I feel that a certification system is most helpful for a beginner to have a comfort level with a teacher, after all, when one starts out, one can't simply look at a teacher and know they are qualified, for that person has no view as to what the "thing" should look like if they are just beginning.
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Offline Alec Furtado

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Re: National Governing Body in the US???
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2012, 03:08:04 PM »
Mark:


Talking with the administration at Santa Clara University, a tier-type ranking system seems like it would be helpful. The interest of the school was not just that it said the instructor was capable of X level training, but it also allowed them to specify that they only want to allow X level of training on campus. It can give them a level that they'd like to restrict intensity (danger/risk) to.


Hope this helps. This was communicated from the head of risk management here at SCU, and he does communicate regularly with many other colleges across the country so I'm sure it would help in many other places.


I anticipate clubs being able to petition their schools to increase the levels they are allowed train at if things run smoothly for long enough.
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