Author Topic: Dad's a Shoe Designer  (Read 4670 times)

Offline Jayy

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Dad's a Shoe Designer
« on: March 21, 2007, 12:33:34 PM »
alright....so I guess ill post this in here.....guess what? my dad is a shoe designer, his brand is called Aetrex, specializing in running and climbing sports shoes....he works out of the house and one day out of the blue he told me that I should design a free running shoe on his program.....well by then I was already shaking with excitement....but the excitement jumped to a whole new level when he said if it was a good shoe and he liked the idea...he could easily send it to china(where his factory is) and have them make it to send us a prototype of the shoe....I just thought ide let you all know and if you guys have any ideas on some features to add to the shoe(like grip or cushion or just cool looks) reply back to this!

Offline Jason Todrick

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2007, 01:00:10 PM »
i have never heard of Aetrex, their site looks medical... like they make orthodics.

as for shoe design,

I've got a few ideas ;)

seriously though, good luck with that, would be a lot of fun to help design and prototype a PK shoe... oh wait, :D

oh, and as for the question... "ideas on some features to add to the shoe(like grip or cushion or just cool looks)"
i would say "cool looks" are probably not top of the list of important PK features.

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Offline Jayy

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2007, 02:54:54 PM »
ya theyre really not medical shoes at all lol, and I know looks arent that important, thats why I said or but you dont want an extremely ugly shoe..I just want some ideas on really anything.

Offline hardcoretraceur

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2007, 02:38:48 AM »
i seriously dont care about how my shoes look, its about function.

i dont know what to say to make it not be just another running shoe.

i would suggest testing out a couple pairs of shoes, or asking people to show you what they like best about their shoes.

i guess id say, make it light and stick away from lots of sole panels, because those tend to peel.
keep it free and true

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Offline Matthew Lee Willis

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2007, 06:44:07 AM »
That is amazing man.  You should Really get on this and ask the admins personally.  They are the ones that will probably give you the best kind of answers.

1. I find the best grip on the shoe when the grip wears down.  Its just that soft kinda rubber.  Like the Stealth rubber on the other rock climbing shoes.  (look at the Addidas Traceurs for that grip, looks like a skateboard shoe almost)

2. No exactly a high top but, higher then most running shoes, that way your heal doesn't slip out and it good support for your ankle.

3. LIGHT, LIGHT, LIGHT

4. Breathable, around the whole shoe.

5. STRONG toe casing. Think about, the toes on a bunch of your shoes.  Mostly the top right part of your right shoe is going to be torn up.  Same for your left side of your left shoe.  If you could find a way to make those more durable.

6. Cushion in the heel, but MORE in the toe.  Us, traceurs should always be landing on our toes so this is important.  The "foam" inside the toe should last for several months without compacting to much and the shoe cushion still has to be level with your heal and toe.

7.  Bottom Middle of shoe, some people like a dip, some people do not like the dip.  I have never used a shoe without a dip in the middle, it will probably help production cost if you put a dip in.  I would say though, not a big one...just a slight curving dip.

LAST OF ALL.  Look at AALLLLLLL the shoe threads and research the reviews there.  Try to make a shoe that fits in comfort, grip, weight, landings, running, special.
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Offline Jason Todrick

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2007, 07:13:41 AM »
Mathew, have you been peeking in the windows at Five Ten  ;)

now, not to confirm or deny anything, you brought up some good points...
1. I find the best grip on the shoe when the grip wears down.  Its just that soft kinda rubber.  Like the Stealth rubber on the other rock climbing shoes.  (look at the Addidas Traceurs for that grip, looks like a skateboard shoe almost)

the reason you notice improved grip is due to surface contact

The Traceur does not have the same grip as Stealth, a large portion of the shoe uses standard OEM rubber and even then, Stealth is not just 'Climbing rubber' which is what Adidas calls their rubber... It's like the difference between Coke and Cola, actually it's like the difference between Coke and Soda. the only other note, Stealth is not really "soft", it's stickier, but also more durable than normal climbing rubber.

Quote
2. No exactly a high top but, higher then most running shoes, that way your heal doesn't slip out and it good support for your ankle.

keeping the heel in is VERY important, but would a higher mouth on the shoe not limit ankle mobility... would make balancing more difficult.

Quote
3. LIGHT, LIGHT, LIGHT

:)

Quote
4. Breathable, around the whole shoe.

:)

Quote
5. STRONG toe casing. Think about, the toes on a bunch of your shoes.  Mostly the top right part of your right shoe is going to be torn up.  Same for your left side of your left shoe.  If you could find a way to make those more durable.

:D

Quote
6. Cushion in the heel, but MORE in the toe.  Us, traceurs should always be landing on our toes so this is important.  The "foam" inside the toe should last for several months without compacting to much and the shoe cushion still has to be level with your heal and toe.

the cushioning is tricky, you don't want dorsiflexion when standing still, the long term effect on ankle biomechanics would not be pretty, but there are other ways to get better cushioning up front.

Quote
7.  Bottom Middle of shoe, some people like a dip, some people do not like the dip.  I have never used a shoe without a dip in the middle, it will probably help production cost if you put a dip in.  I would say though, not a big one...just a slight curving dip.

Cost is about even, depending on how the shoe is assembled, it could be less with out the "dip". with a dip you get more of a running shoe, it will flex a little better in the thinner 'dip' area. with no dip, you get a flatter sole, and thus more surface contact=more grip and also the shoe is going to be more forgiving when it comes to miss landing rail precisions. theres probably a way to achieve both ;)

what it comes down to is this, building an actual PK shoe is complicated, probably one of the more complicated shoe uses I could imagine... there are a lot of features people want/need that are normally mutually exclusive.

rubber hat has grip but is durable and non marking... climbing rubber generally can't do this... generally, it would take a whole new type of rubber to accomplish this.

Fit, locking in the heal while still allowing ankle mobility... not a normal running shoe strong point... Climbing shoes do this well, but are not very comfortable as a result... there probably  a middle ground

a mid sole that is flexible and well cushioned... again, these two generally do not coexist well.

a well ventilated shoe that provides adequate support... our Savant was getting there, but again these two don't like each other very much, in a perfect world, i would think it would be nice to get more ventilation than the savant.

a LIGHT shoe with a ton of cushioning and a ton of grip... well now there's a trick.

looks? looks should be a result of a good design... for instance, if it looks just like a running shoe, it probably is... there may be exceptions, but honestly i would not expect a PK shoe to look like any other type of shoe, there is just too many different requirements.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 07:29:28 AM by Jason@FiveTen »
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Offline Kurokaze

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2007, 10:05:17 AM »
personally i think that there should be a huge red racing stripe down the center ::)
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Offline Jayy

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2007, 01:11:41 PM »
cool ideas, ya personally im not really sure what alot of that means, but considering my dad is a shoe freak, im sure he knows everything about what your talking about so ill show him this post, and as for the first reply on contacting the admin about this post, how exactly do I do that?

Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2007, 05:10:40 PM »
http://www.quickswood.com/my_weblog/2006/08/athletic_footwe.html#more This is a good article to read.

A thin, flexible, grippy shoe would be nice.  Something like Kung Fu shoes, but with more grip.
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Offline Matthew Lee Willis

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2007, 06:01:24 PM »
Jason.  I am glad that agree with a lot of the points that I made.  Design of course doesn't matter your right. 

I looked at the 5.10's for a while and just couldn't bring myself to get another shoe that had a hard sole all the way through the shoe.  Your right, though, it will get more surface grip.  Although, I have a completely flat foot and when I say completely I MEAN COMPLETELY.  I need a flexible kinda of shoe.  I know that sounds weird but it just makes everything more comfortable.

The two points about the heel and the sole of the shoe are interesting.  Its to bad that shoes just cant be made the way that traceurs really need them.  I guess you have to pick balance over support or grip over comfort.  Thanks for doing your job man!
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Offline Jason Todrick

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2007, 08:28:01 AM »
Jason.  I am glad that agree with a lot of the points that I made.  Design of course doesn't matter your right. 

I looked at the 5.10's for a while and just couldn't bring myself to get another shoe that had a hard sole all the way through the shoe.  Your right, though, it will get more surface grip.  Although, I have a completely flat foot and when I say completely I MEAN COMPLETELY.  I need a flexible kinda of shoe.  I know that sounds weird but it just makes everything more comfortable.

yeah, our current shoes are bit stiff...  then again, we haven't released a purpose built shoe for PK

Quote
Its to bad that shoes just cant be made the way that traceurs really need them.  I guess you have to pick balance over support or grip over comfort.  Thanks for doing your job man!

well that was my point, normally yo have to choose, but that's only if you intend to do things the way they have always been done.
getting a good balance of the needed features is definitely possible, but current materials and design used for footwear won't work, thats for sure.
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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2007, 03:11:36 PM »
I tend to doubt that you need as much cushioning as many people believe. Excess cushioning seems to lead to lax technique, and the greatest cushioning in the world will do little with drops over 3 or 4 feet, at that point you better have your landings sorted or you'll end up injured one way or the other. I prefer a shoe with relative flexibility and feel over something that rides like a tank on my feet.

A good toe rand is a must, and many climbing shoe companies have have figured this out well. I used to get pissed with skate shoes that had a protective toe cap that ended before the ball of my foot, where I would always ollie. This is the same spot that I hit when coming out of a roll, so this outside piece of the shoe should be beefy rubber that is STITCHED,  not just glued, or it will peel.

The idea of surface contact is a good one, but be careful, I've tried a couple of prototype shoes this year that went for the climbing shoe design with little in the way of traction. They were great on one surface...dry asphalt. Unfortunately Parkour takes place on wet surfaces, grass, dirt, rocks, etc. Stealth approach rubber in the dot pattern won't cut it, it needs to be more along the line of the Guide Four, with enough surface area for flat surfaces, but enough traction for varied surfaces such as mud, snow, grass, etc.

Offline Rafe

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2007, 09:05:41 PM »
+ 1 Gear thats basically what I have been saying to allot of people recently very well put and succinct.
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Offline Sat Santokh

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2007, 09:24:41 AM »
I personally prefer a little bit of cushioning just for running, and walking around in general.

Offline Jason Todrick

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2007, 09:27:07 AM »
Stealth approach rubber in the dot pattern won't cut it, it needs to be more along the line of the Guide Four, with enough surface area for flat surfaces, but enough traction for varied surfaces such as mud, snow, grass, etc.

gear, overall your observations are on the money.


I assume you mean Camp Four... the one with the same outsole as the Savant.

:)

but your right, the rubber off the guide tennie is not perfect... it's not a problem with the pattern, that pattern is great for surface contact... concrete, asphalt, stucco, trees, and rails... it's a rubber compound issue... stealth rubber is sticky as hell in the right conditions, the ones i listed, but PK crosses so many lines not only in abuse the shoe takes but in conditions it is used in that NO combination of tread design and rubber compound currently on the market would be ideal.

that's not to say that something can't be made, but to assume that anything that has been done before is going to be the magic bullet for PK is naive.
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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2007, 09:58:27 AM »
Needless to say we don't need a magic bullet, but rather something adequate enough for a foundation, from which proper skill takes care of the rest. I've personally had good success as far as grip with shoes such as the Nike Pegasus, which doesn't have anything great going for it, but works well enough to train with. Adapting technique to the situation is very important, but you need just enough grip to make it worthwhile (i.e. racing slicks compared to all-terrain tires). I also think that the sensitivity issue helps in this regard, as having more feel with your feet and more mobility in your toes will allow you to use the foot functionally to increase grip in varied situations.

If you combine this with proper technique, such as shorter steps on slick surfaces, keeping a low center of gravity, applying proper focus to landing areas and keeping a broad area of fucus for varied terrain and obstacles you can adapt accordingly and make a variety of footwear work, which leaves durability as a main concern for the budget-minded traceur.

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Re: Dad's a Shoe Designer
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2007, 01:21:38 PM »
i think you should try to make the shoe tight on the foot with a little cushoning. I think that a good parkour shoe should basically be a light breathable shoe that leaves alot to your own foot because the best shoe for parkour is no shoe. Try to get stealthed rubber on it. Make it light instead of cushoned. Also make it look cool. Dont make it bulkey like skateboarding shoes.