Topic: Help Mold My Routine

[Dustin Combs]

Okay, one thing to start with. Yes. I've read the Eat, Move, Improve links always posted about this -.- lol So, please, do not post that xD Also, i have no way of purchasing Steven Low's book currently, for i can't order offline yet -.-

I don't have many specific goals right now other than:
HSPU (Hand stand Push up)
Muscle Up
Climb Up (clean and fluid)
Higher/Futher Precision & Stride

So, help me make a coditioning routine for days i can't go out and train? Please? I'm doing the 365 project this year :3 For light rest days i think I'll only do small amounts of push ups, sit ups, and squats.
But on true conditioning days... what should my routine look like?
I figure it'll include some hand stand work, push ups, pull ups, (if available) dyno's, squats, and pistols. Correct? What all would you say would work best? I can max out at 40 true push ups (don't hate :/), 12 overhand pull ups, pistols and sqats are unknown for now.
And, what is "handstand work"? Static hold? Or just the HSPU progression?
here's what i figured it'd look something like:
3x25 Push Ups (will increase when i truly can)
3xX Squats
3x8 Overhand Pull Ups
3xX Pistols (both legs)

What other exercises would you include? What wouldyou already change? Will dips help?

[David Rohrer]

I am certainly not the best person to critique your plan, but I think some of your goals may not be specific enough.

Additionally, it seems that your plan is somewhat endurance focused if you are doing 3 sets of 25 push ups. This might not align with your muscle up goal unless you already can basically do one. In fact, this may not align with your increased precision distance (if you are hoping to increase your broad jump). Additionally, I do not know why you are considering doing squats and pistols. Maybe that is common practice, but it seems kind of silly to me to do two almost identical exercises.

In my opinion, focus less on endurance (strength tends to translate to endurance at a better ratio than endurance translates to strength) and get more specific goals. Without some clear goals besides a HSPU and muscle up, I do not know how anyone would have a framework to help you with your workout plan (yourself included).

[Dustin Combs]

I do know my goals aren't all specific, and i do apologize. But i have no idea my current distance or height i can precision or stride so i cannot truly be specific there. And climb ups isn't very specific, but note the text beside, i want them clean and fluid (meaning they currently aren't).

I see your point, but i feel like the more push ups the more I've gained, if that makes sense, which could help the motions in a climb/muslce up... yes? And... Pistols and Squats are in there to increase leg muscle and such, that way i can check off my broad goal about precisions and strides.

And if i could, i would but idk how to... hence this thread xP

[Joe Brock]

Mr. Rohrer is right on the money.  The goals are too broad, not easily quantified, and your current program is focused towards endurance over limit strength.

Dips are going to be part of the Muscle-up training, and are an obvious choice.  The other obvious answer is to increase the difficulty of the push-ups.  Handstand balance progressions and elevating your feet for push-ups should lead to a HSPU eventually.

A full-body routine would probably serve you much better, though.

[Dustin Combs]

Full body routine as in lifting? Or is there a way to go about without lifting? (Bar bodyweight conditioning cause i never got any progress with that yet :/)

[Joe Brock]

In my experience, lower body strength training without weights is scheiße.

It is possible to work in strength as a full-body effort done with progressive bodyweight strength training.  If you're looking for efficiency, though, add weight to lower body work.  Upper body can be done with bodyweight or weight lifting, and it's up to you to pick what you wish to do.

[Dustin Combs]

Well, what would a bodyweight routine look like vs. a lifting routine for the goals of:
3 Muscle Ups
5 HSPUs (against wall)
?
I know that is a small list, but that's all i can think of, as far as upper body goals for now :/

Correct me if I'm wrong, but bodyweight would use dips (weighted only when able to do so), maybe pull ups (weighted when able to do so), and maybe those elevated push ups you were mentioning? Plus handstand balance work?

I suppose 8 10 lbs pull ups and 5 20 lbs dips could be another POSSIBLE goal? (Meaning as of right now, it's not a current one of mine)

[Joe Brock]

Man, it would be totally sweet if when you clicked this blue text, you were directed to an article written by our very own Steven Low (the bodyweight strength guru) and most of the fundamental concepts were covered there.  Including how to construct your VERY OWN customized body-weight strength program.

There are goals that could be set to fall within training constructs.  For example: I want my banded deficit deadlift to be at least #220+greens, because of how it reflects upon my 18" Deadlift and conventional  deadlift.  I call these "indicators."  As your training progresses, you'll learn that your performance on chins/pull-ups and dips is directly reflected in your muscle-ups.

There's no reason to list all of them, unless you use them to keep track of progress towards you main goals.

EDIT: IF the link genie would be so kind as to infuse the magic into linking DIRECTLY to the page with designing your program...it would occur here.  Check that out...3 times a week, 2 pushes, 2 pulls, 1-2 leg exercises. 

Pull-ups=pulls
Elevated Push-ups & Dips=Pushes
Box Jumps and Pistols=Leg Stuff.

[Dustin Combs]

Alright, so based upon that first link, would it be more beneficial to do wide grip overhand pull ups? Although for my first muscle-up(s) I'm pretty sure it will be shoulder width grip?
But. Here's what I'm getting out of this:

Skill work:
Handstand work (working for that HSPU)
Maybe planche work... for a handstand press.

Pull:
3x8 Pull Ups (wide grip?) (Is this endurance still? Or strength?)
Back Lever Work

Push:
3x8 Dips
3x12 Push Ups (elevated)

Legs:
3x8 Pistols (both legs)
3x12 Box Jumps

Edit:
I just realized planche is pushing... so i need to add another pull, yes? Would you all just suggest a front lever progression?

Also:
3x5 Pull Ups of wide grip over hand; 8 is too many for me right now
3x8 Elevated push ups, same reasoning as above.
But it felt good; this routine did. I performed it tonight, and all was well

[Steven Low]

So if your goals are muscle ups and handstand pushups why don't you have any of those in your routine?

[Dustin Combs]

I can't do a single muscle up nor HSPU, but i figured if i put i wanted to be able to do one only, then it wouldn't be a very good goal.. Does that make sense, or what do i need to do?

[Tom Heyl]

You should put both negative muscle ups, and negative hspu's somewhere in your routine.

[Steven Low]

You should put both negative muscle ups, and negative hspu's somewhere in your routine.

+1

If you can't do them you should be at least working some sort of variant.

Otherwise, why have those goals in the first place?

[Dustin Combs]

Where would you all suggest i put them? In the "skill" part?
But, okay, thank you all for all the advice.

[Joe Brock]

No, negatives aren't a skill.  They're taxing if done slowly.  Program the HSPU negative as a push.  Muscle-up is a little bit of either.  I'd treat it like a push/pull.  You're probably not going to maintain good form for long on them, so cycle them out when they start to be more of a "fall" than a negative.  Finish out the routine with a balance of easier movements (such as rows or push-ups.)  There is a balance that you'll have to find between skill acquisition and the total volume that you need for muscular growth.

This principal will NEVER get easier, and so it's important to understand that main movements should always take priority to assistance work.

[Dustin Combs]

Makes sense. Sorry about all this trouble guys :/

Here's what I'm thinking:

Skill:
Handstand holds against wall (works as a warm up, and a skill). 3 minutes for now until better is achieved.

Push:
HSPU Negatives against wall at an angle >90°. 3xX (depends on how deep the angle is. Should i start as close to the real thing as possible with low reps, or do about mid and have 6-12 reps?)
Planche work (hold tuck planche for 3 sets of X; last time being 15 seconds)
Dips 3x8

Pull:
Muscle Up Negatives 3xX. Wanna say about 2 for.now...
Back lever holds (tuck for 3 sets of X; 30 seconds last time, easily could go a minute)
Front lever holds (refer as above; used to do 60, think i still could).

Legs:
Pistols 3x5 (8 is too much for now >__<)
Box Jumps: 3x12

Cool down:
Wide grip pull ups: 3x3
Elevated push ups: 3x5-8

How's it sound?

[CheltonJr]

Looking pretty good IMO

Here's a bit of feedback:

1. HSPU negatives angle: not sure if this is what you meant but putting your hand 1-2 steps from the wall and your feet up the wall will work. It would be ~180° I think.
2. For planche holding a total of 45-60sec will give better results instead of 3xX.

3. Muscle Up would better fit as a pull/push combination.
4. Put pull ups on the Pulling group. Well, this doesn't affect the routine it self, but yeah .

5. The elevated Push Ups will count for the pushing which would make it 4 (4.5 actually because of the muscle ups ?) pushing exercises. Too much I think. I would take this off and do some stretching to cool down.

[Joe Brock]

With the HSPU, keep it highly elevated.  You're wanting to mimic the movement in reverse.

Looks good as far as exercise selection is concerned.  Keep in mind that your "cool down" shouldn't be a true finisher.  If you're going to total muscle failure on them, then you're doing too much.  In a perfect world, you'd be hitting between 40-60 reps of pushes and also 40-60 reps of pulls per workout.  (Isometrics screw up the way that I generally think about these things, so if someone more accustomed to holds sees an issue with this, please point it out.)  These would be added across sets:

HSPU Neg: 3x5=15
Dips 3x8=24 (since you're looking for a MU, keep these DEEP)
Push ups 20=20
TOTAL=59 Pushes

This is an attempt to balance hypertrophy with neuromuscular coordination.  As your ability to exert more strength increases and the skills become closer to happening, you may actually dial the extra work at the end down to allow better recovery time.  You may find that if you're still pretty taxed from one workout to the next that splitting up major skills in an ABA one week, BAB pattern the next week will help you achieve your goals at a much more efficient rate. Chelton pointed this out, but the MU is a push & a pull, so dedication to them will cover both a push and pull for one day.  Since you have so many choices for either pushes or pulls, splitting them is probably going to be necessary.  It will also help prevent boredom.  Eat well, sleep well, and keep at it.

[Steven Low]

Don't need cooldown.

Looks better.

Learning how to construct a routine is an art. Usually, I ask questions that force you to think so it's not really a problem.

This makes you learn so yo can do it yourself next time.

[Dustin Combs]

Alright, here's what i did for my routine tonight:

3 minute wall handstand
-1 minute of rest
4 holds of tuck planche to total a minute
-25 seconds, 15, 10, and 10 = 60
3x5 "HSPU Negatives"
-30 seconds of rest (i think)
-> When u get a chance, I'll post a video of this to make sure I'm doing these right.
3x8 Dips (I. Love. These.)
-30 seconds of rest
3x3 Muscle Up Negatives
-30 seconds of rest (i think)
3 holds of Back Lever tuck
-45 second holds with 30 seconds of rest
3 holds of Front Lever tuck
-30 second holds with 30 seconds of rest
3x5 Pistols (both legs)
-30 seconds of rest
3x12 Box Jump
-30 seconds of rest