Topic: Help Improve My Work Out Routine

[David Rohrer]

Hi guys,

I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. I have tried training twice in the past, but I didn't go about it so well. I am excited to get back to training now, but I really want to do it better this time. Consequently, I really would appreciate some feedback on this program I am trying to piece together. I read the stickies and am trying my best to integrate all the information I have read.

I would like people to note that I am a bit older (27) and have horrible flexibility which I believe has limited my ability to train in the past.

Goals:
1. Free hang muscle up (probably take forever, but I am happy with progress)
2. Increase vertical leap 6 inches.
3. Increase maximum wall up height 12 inches.
4. Increase QM rail fluidity (increase my end to end QM rail time by 20 seconds on the rail I have outside my house)
5. Develop and maintain flexibility necessary to perform proper form for all my exercising (including any running).

I have additional goals I can add if I need to rework any of this, and I will break these into smaller chunks once I get feedback on my workout plan. Of these goals, the muscle up and vertical leap improvements are certainly the ones I care the most about.

Program:
Monday:
Squats - 3x5
Chin ups - 3x5
Dips/planche (alternating) - 3x5/progression work

Wednesday:
Squats - 3x5
Dips/planche (alternating) - 3x5/progression work
Deadlift/powerclean (alternating) – 1x5/3x5

Friday:
Squats - 3x5
Pull ups - 3x5
Dips/planche (alternating) - 3x5/progression work

Flexibility:
Because my flexibility is limiting my ability to even get into a proper squat stance, I am committing to work on my flexibility 5 days a week (unless someone tells me this is too much). However, I do not know the best way to approach this. I bought stretching scientifically a while back and have a person (wife) who I can get to help me with PNF stretching, but I am not sure which stretches I should specifically be doing. I probably need them for the major areas of the lower body, back, and shoulder areas. Additionally, I do not know if I should mix PNF stretching in with static or dynamic stretching.

Feedback:
I would really be grateful for some general feedback in case I am missing something. Here are some specific questions though.

1.   Are alternating deadlifts with power cleans better than just deadlifts alone? I added them because I thought it might be helpful for my jumping goals.
2.   I have almost always worked out my upper body using presses and bench presses. I left them out because I thought maybe dips and planche work would help me better meet my goals. How will leaving out press/bench press work affect my strength gains?
3.   How should I go about deciding what stretches to do, how often, and of what type (PNF, dynamic, and/or static)?
4.   What, if any, skills/exercises might I be missing that you feel are really important to parkour? I would love to try to work these in.

Thank you guys so much for the help. I am glad to finally be a part of the forums!

[Joe Brock]

1.   Are alternating deadlifts with power cleans better than just deadlifts alone? I added them because I thought it might be helpful for my jumping goals.
2.   I have almost always worked out my upper body using presses and bench presses. I left them out because I thought maybe dips and planche work would help me better meet my goals. How will leaving out press/bench press work affect my strength gains?
3.   How should I go about deciding what stretches to do, how often, and of what type (PNF, dynamic, and/or static)?
4.   What, if any, skills/exercises might I be missing that you feel are really important to parkour? I would love to try to work these in.

Thank you guys so much for the help. I am glad to finally be a part of the forums!

1. With you already having 2 pushes (planche and dips), it makes sense to have multiple pulls, so I like DL+Pull-ups.  Power cleans are a good option to work speed-strength into your pulling work.  Be certain to load the Deadlift, Power Clean, and the chins in a progressive manner.  You will also benefit from working the pull-ups in an explosive manner.

2. As long as the dips are being loaded when needed, and the planche is worked in a progressive manner, you should be fine with replacing them with body-weight work as opposed to barbell work.

3. Static stretching can be done as much as you wish without any real negatives, but I wouldn't do it before strength work.  PNF and dynamic stretching would fit well on off days from your already existing program. 

4. I think that your current goals are plenty until you complete them.  Attack limited goals at once, succeed at those, and then you can be more concerned with other goals.  By chasing fewer rabbits at once, you're more likely to catch them.

[Scott Eustice]

You also might want to add in a horizontal pulling motion. I found that when I began training front levers, I the transition phase of the muscle up became much easier.

I'm not sure how much time you have, but you would probably be better served with a full body routine, ie. pull/chinups, horizontal pull, dips, planche, squat, power clean/deadlift every workout.

And like Joe said, keep adding weight/ making it harder progressively. I'm not sure how strong you are right now, but you should be adding weight nearly every workout if you are a beginner, and at least once a week if you are an intermediate lifter.

[David Rohrer]

Thank you for your input. I was trying to keep my routine to squats, 1 pushing, and 1 pulling exercise each workout. I only was doing this because I thought 1 of each is all you needed. I was planning on doing dips on say Monday and Friday with planche work on Wednesday then switching the order in the following week.

I also thought (from reading starting strength) that doing deadlifts multiple times a week would be too much, but I may be remembering that incorrectly.

Honestly, I would love to do this work out 3 times a week if you all do not think it is too much:

Squats
Pull ups/chin ups (alternating)
Dips
Front Lever work
Planche
Deadlift/power clean (alternating)

How do these modifications sound? Mostly I am concerned it might be too much, but I might just be basing my concerns off of the example SS program which I think was just one pushing and one pulling plus squats each workout.

[Joe Brock]

The risk of overdoing it is really about how far you've already progressed.  If you're PCleaning #235x3x3 and DL #450x1x5 @#185 BW and stand 5'11", then you won't be able to recover in time unless you're a mutant.  On the other hand, if your PClean is @#125 and DL @#225, then this should work out fine.

Where are your lifts currently?  How far into your progressions have you made is so far?

[Steven Low]

Pretty good feedback so far... and yeah, everything always depends on how far you are along.

When you're making a post always list:

Height, weight, Lift numbers (of all relevant lifts/holds), previous routine(s), any injuries or other issues you have to work around, etc

[David Rohrer]

I can do that. Thanks for the heads up. I am 5' 7" and about 140 lbs. I have not progressed very far in lifts. The last SS program attempt I was at about 130 benchpress, 115 press, and I do not remember my squat numbers, but I know they were less developed because I had to train flexibility for a while to get into position without being all messed up.  I could do 3x5 @ body weight pull ups without failing.

I tried SS two times. Once I stopped due to a shoulder injury (Doc said it was impingement. I over worked it, but now I have learned to back off weight if I am not making my set). I most recently stopped my second SS attempt due to a back injury while playing soccer. I strained my back and it is only now healing up. The shoulder feels great (and did not become aggravated during my last SS attempt which lasted a few months). My back is at about 90%, and I wont start this until it gets to 100 and my flexibility is in line.

I have not deadlifted or power cleaned in over 2 years (my deadlift form was off and made me afraid I would mess up my back which has been injury prone the last 10 years or so of my life), so those lifts aren't going to be very good. I have never worked on planche or front levers.

Injury info:
A PT recently said that my back pain is probably from a lack of flexibility in my back and hamstrings. I previously developed shin splints pretty bad, and the PT also said they were probably due to tight calf muscles and tight hips. One time I developed runners knee which made me quit my squat work for a while. My doctor said I probably got that from tight hamstrings. I researched these injuries (except runner's knee) and it seems they can have multiple causes; however, the PT might be right because when doing a flat back toe touch, I can barely reach the top of my knees. The other areas of my body roughly as inflexible, and the PT laughed when he was testing my flexibility.

Sorry for not including basic stat stuff in my first post? Is there anything you would additionally advise me after hearing this information? It sounds like I would be fine with the 6 exercises and alternating the DL and power clean 3 times a week.

You all are really helpful!

[Joe Brock]

I still don't see any issues with your current plan, except I'd really like to see videos of your deadlift and PClean to make sure that there aren't any form issues that may also be causing your back to be suffering.

You shouldn't see any issues with your proposed plan causing overtraing.  I'd play it by ear for a few weeks and make sure that your work doesn't cause these issues to flare back up.  If there is pain, stop immediately and let us know.

[Steven Low]

Seems ok then

[David Rohrer]

Perfect. I really appreciate the feedback guys.

Joe, I think posting deadlift/power clean videos is a great idea. I'd like to post a squat video also just to get feedback before adding too much weight. I think it'll be a little while before I can get a video up because my flexibility is so bad. I'm going to focus on the flexibility here for a few weeks and then post some videos to see how far you all think I need to go with it (or if my form is just bad in general). I am not going to lift in the meantime.

[Steven Low]

The biggest thing is.... just going to do it.

Stay consistent