Topic: Deadlift Form Check (with video)

[Brett Robert]

Howdy besties and lurkers alike.

I'd love some feedback and tips on my deadlift form, so here's a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyUptzrEQ0g

The video is me doing a 3RM.  My first rep is godawful, which seems to be the case often, and my 1RM attempts share its form flaws.  My biggest problem is that my knees open first, which is somewhat necessary, and so much so that by the time my hips open, my back is nearly parallel to the ground.  Note that I have an Ape Index of 1.03, as my wingspan is larger than my height by 2 inches or so.  I imagine that the long limbs affect back angle here.  I've been sticking to lower weights lately to try to work form and keep my chest up, but I wanted to do 1RM the other night, but failed at 335, so I went for 3 on 315.  Anyway...

Slow motion starts around 22 seconds into the clip.

Anyway, what I'm looking for is feedback:
1) How is my form?
2) What needs correcting?
3) How should I correct it?  (i.e. back off in weight, drills, etc.)

Thanks in advance.

P.S.  I realize watching this how much I am arching my neck up.  Video don't lie!

[Steven Low]

You pretty much hit what your major fault is... knees opening too quickly which makes the butt rise which flattens back. This pushes bar path backward, and if you watch it carefully you can see it move forward at the top of the movement.

This tends to mean your quads are a bit too strong as they extend the knees there.

So you'd want to focus on some specific hamstring and glute work if you haven't been already.... and really squeeze glutes at the top of the movements of DL and squat.


Looking forward with the neck is OK, but I prefer slightly angled down

[Brett Robert]

Thanks Steven!

I lift twice a week.  I do squats both days, and alternate between DL & SLDL.  Should I add something besides SLDL to work the hammies/glutes?  I also do FL/BL/PL for upper body, so those involve PC as well, especially since I'm at full BL again.

[Steven Low]

Weighted hip thrusts, GHRs,

[Brett Robert]

Thanks.

[Steven Low]

Good mornings are good too if you can maintain good back for.

Same with back hypers (hits back and glutes/hams)

[Brett Robert]

I think I'll try weighted hip thrusts if I can find a spot for them (and overcome any embarassment) as that movement seems relevant, or "sport-specific," to so many things we do.  Good mornings seem pretty similar to SLDL, and neither works the hip thrust/extension specifically.  So hip thrusts + SLDL/good mornings seems like the plan for now.

[Tom Coppola]

Hamstring curls along with single leg variation:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdv82EAUUTQ
I also like weighted hips thrust and GHR.  Not sure why or how you'd spot weighted hips thrust, though.

[Brett Robert]

Hahaha... by "find a spot for them" I meant a place to do them.  I use the campus gym, or the hideous corporate monstrosity.  Neither place has much room for freeweights.  Time to find a new gym.

Tried good mornings the other day, and I have to say they are more different than I anticipated compared to SLDL.

[David Glass]

In Venezuela, we call that Tres Arepas!

Steve's comments were spot-on, so I won't add anything there, other than congrats on the Tres Arepas (3x45 plates per side). I know that's not why you posted, but I felt compelled to anyway... It's a free country! 

[Tom Coppola]

Hah! I was totally envisioning a really awkward straddled front spot.

[Brett Robert]

Thanks David!

Hah! I was totally envisioning a really awkward straddled front spot.

It could be awkward, or it could lead to some deep soul-searching and a lifestyle change... it all depends.  Hahahahaha!

[Joe Brock]

GMs are multi-purpose, and that's part of why I love them.

They've done more to help me in pulling back during a squat that's going wrong than I care to admit.  The benefits carry over into deadlift, but not much more than a SLDL would.  The squat benefits are why I give them higher preference.

...anything that helps to prevent getting stapled under a bar takes precedence.

[KC Parsons]

Also, I'd say grab a little wider on the bar so you aren't risking the hands bumping the knees and the consequent awkward passing moments.

This will also deepen the position a bit which makes the work/distance to get to that flat back position more which means you're more likely to notice it. That alone might help. Also noticing some slight spinal roundage pretty uniformly (as opposed to say a tight extention in the thoracic/cerval spine but then severe rounding in the lumbar). Back work specifically could help which is where the straight back GHR/roman chair extensions come in.

But basically, grip a little wider, keep back tight (chest up! ass poppin!), drive your chest up and back as you squeeze into the floor (remember not to cue the hip drive too hard like in a back squat or you'll end up with what you're doing), then make sure to get nice, full extension at the top (which you're already doing; just a reminder)

[KC Parsons]

Had my friend grab a video of a couple reps here, hopefully this will help.

I did note that when I lower it I do somewhat of what you're doing with the back flattening first.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM4yLgvtQvA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM4yLgvtQvA</a>

[Brett Robert]

Thanks for the neck cramp KC!    Just kidding.  Thanks for the tips, I'll try a wider grip next time and continue the SLDL/GMs as assistance exercises.  I don't have access to a GHR bench, so those seem the best options.

[KC Parsons]

Video fixed

How's it coming along?

[Brett Robert]

Work in progress?  Or, it was in progress, now it's a work in stasis.  I tweaked my shoulder somehow last week, so I'm taking an unplanned break from strength work until that clears up.

I did try the wider grip last time I dl'd.  I'll keep that up, though I'm not sure if it helped. 

Plan for now is something like this:

Week 1:
A Day
Squat
DL

B Day
Squat
SLDL

Week 2:
A day
Squat
DL

B Day
Squat
GM

I'll always have at least 2 rest days between lifting.  Upper body strength is body weight workouts on T/Th/Sat focused on planche, bl, fl, & hs work.

[Joe Brock]

[Chris Salvato]

There is a chicken and egg problem here that most posters have ignored thus far....

If your knees open before the hips (which is clearly your biggest fault, bravo on picking that out), then the problem may be a muscle imbalance as been previously diagnosed, and suitable treatments have already been listed here.

The chicken and egg problem comes in because there is an assumption that the reason for your hips opening first is a muscle imbalance, whereas the muscle imbalance may have been caused by you learning the movement in a faulty way.  The bad form has become ingrained, and now your muscles are imbalanced, which makes the problem even worse.

Either way, you have a problem where your muscles are being imbalanced, and it is causing improper form, which is causing muscles to become more imbalanced....and so on.  To rectify this, one half of it is the treatment/prevention tips mentioned above by previous posters, but also focus on proper cueing to fix the movement.  You can get your muscles all balanced and strong and still perform the movement incorrectly because your body THINKS it's doing it right.

I would suggest a "pull back" cue for your arms to keep them straight and tight against the body, with the bar rubbing along the shins.  I would also suggest a "lean back" cue for your ass, as when you are focused on leaning back, the hips should be set back further, keeping the knees more parallel and forcing them to open later.  Of course, you won't really be leaning back very much, but the visualization/cue in your head should help. 

You may want to try and identify other cues that can help aside from just increasing strength in weak muscles.