Topic: "Fake" Traceurs/Traceuse

[Anias Zig Zag Reed]

After doing parkour for a little over a year I've realized I honestly don't follow the parkour philosophy; for me it's just something I do because it's fun and it gets me in shape. However, I have been told by multiple people I used to train with that if I didn't practice the philosophy it was no longer Parkour and therefore that makes me a fake traceuse. Yet at the same the same time I'm constantly told parkour is about finding my own path. It's becoming extremely frustrating that I'm not considered a traceuse just because I don't have the same mind set, or that what I'm doing can't be considered parkour anymore.
 
So what are your opinions? What makes someone a traceur or a traceuse?

[Andrew Mumu Trahum]

A male who practices parkour is a traceur, a female who practices parkour is a traceuse.

Someone who follows the philosophy is someone who follows the philosophy. You don't have to train parkour to follow the philosophy, there are over ways people overcome obstacles and live freely.

[Shay]

What's the philosophy?

[Anias Zig Zag Reed]

What's the philosophy?

To be honest I don't think there really is a set philosophy; everyone just seems to interject their own thoughts of what parkour is.

[Shay]

Yup!  Parkour is what you make of it. 

You make your own philosophy and people who just do Parkour for fun have their own philosophy.  Don't let anyone tell you you're not doing parkour.

[Stevie Leifheit]

OH boy, some people gonna be angry bout this 


But honestly, I believe you're doing parkour even if you're not following the philosophy.

If you choose to follow it, cool. You might even gain a bit more out of training. But if you decide not to, whatever, who am I to say you're wrong?

[Jordan Strybos]

Yup!  Parkour is what you make of it.  

You make your own philosophy and people who just do Parkour for fun have their own philosophy.

Begging to differ here...I'm not saying that everyone who wants to practice parkour MUST follow a certain philosophy, but there is definitely a mindset that the founders had when they began training, and that mindset is what really separates parkour from just reckless running/jumping/climbing.

[Adam McC]

Whew, this is quite a sketchy topic, and it may get heated, but hopefully we can all stay civil here.

OP, you don't have you feel bad. You are most certainly practicing Parkour, and you are most certainly a traceuse. If you're out there training your movements and getting in shape and improving your body and your mind and the connection between them, therefore improving yourself, you're definitely doing Parkour.

However, Jordan is right, in that the founders do indeed have a particular Philosophy. It's a particularly, unparticular philosophy. They believe that Parkour is an individual art, and you practice it to shape your life and to improve yourself and become better and accomplish your goals, according to who you are and what you do. Someone with a martial arts background can practice Parkour or someone who wants to be very social can practice Parkour or someone who wants only to get in shape can still practice Parkour in their own ways. But they have to still be practicing Parkour, which means using our methods of training in order to better themselves in some way, according to their goals and their weaknesses. We all have our goals according to us, and they are always changing and evolving!

So what this means is, no Parkour isn't just absolutely anything you make it. Parkour isn't basketweaving, if you want it to be. Parkour is definitely a thing, and there is definitely a philosophy behind it, but it's a very individualistic one, and you can match it to your goals. Right now, your goals are to have fun, get in shape. Honestly, as you practice more and more, you'll discover more about the art and and more about yourself and you'll find more goals and deeper things. It'll be a really cool adventure, and all of that process, all of that path is Parkour, and you are right in the middle of it. So don't let people tell you that you aren't doing Parkour, because you definitely are. You're just... at a particular stage. And chances are, so are your criticizing friends, they just have too much arrogance to see that they are in all actually, probably at a much shallower level of the art than you. Otherwise, they'd be far kinder.

[TR]

I consider Parkour working to improve your ability to move and to be aware of your surroundings. I don't really care what your reasons for moving are, whatever your motivations are, that's for you, and everyone is different! Just so long as you train responsibly to keep yourself safe.

On a side note: it astounds me how many 'Traceurs' can't squat properly. I was at a jam on saturday and we were just doing body-weight squats at one point, and it was baffling how many just.. couldn't do it right.. (Not to mention a lot of other BW exercises and stretches people fail at)

I believe a Traceu(se)r should at least have some interest in basic body mechanics/exercise, and a drive to improve their basic mechanics. Problem solving I guess would be a good way to call it.. First learning of the proper mechanic for whatever movement/exercise they do. Figuring out what the problem is that is causing them to not have proper form, and then fixing it.

I think at the very simplest, above is what makes a Traceu(se)r to me.. Improving your ability to move, as well as improving your basic body mechanics.

I suppose I could get into more, finer details.. but I'd rather not get into all that right now considering the topic.

[Stevie Leifheit]

Whew, this is quite a sketchy topic, and it may get heated, but hopefully we can all stay civil here.

OP, you don't have you feel bad. You are most certainly practicing Parkour, and you are most certainly a traceuse. If you're out there training your movements and getting in shape and improving your body and your mind and the connection between them, therefore improving yourself, you're definitely doing Parkour.

However, Jordan is right, in that the founders do indeed have a particular Philosophy. It's a particularly, unparticular philosophy. They believe that Parkour is an individual art, and you practice it to shape your life and to improve yourself and become better and accomplish your goals, according to who you are and what you do. Someone with a martial arts background can practice Parkour or someone who wants to be very social can practice Parkour or someone who wants only to get in shape can still practice Parkour in their own ways. But they have to still be practicing Parkour, which means using our methods of training in order to better themselves in some way, according to their goals and their weaknesses. We all have our goals according to us, and they are always changing and evolving!

So what this means is, no Parkour isn't just absolutely anything you make it. Parkour isn't basketweaving, if you want it to be. Parkour is definitely a thing, and there is definitely a philosophy behind it, but it's a very individualistic one, and you can match it to your goals. Right now, your goals are to have fun, get in shape. Honestly, as you practice more and more, you'll discover more about the art and and more about yourself and you'll find more goals and deeper things. It'll be a really cool adventure, and all of that process, all of that path is Parkour, and you are right in the middle of it. So don't let people tell you that you aren't doing Parkour, because you definitely are. You're just... at a particular stage. And chances are, so are your criticizing friends, they just have too much arrogance to see that they are in all actually, probably at a much shallower level of the art than you. Otherwise, they'd be far kinder.

 When a topic comes around like this one, I know where I stand, and I know I want people to hear my views. But I'm so busy with school, that the little time I can devote to apk, is taken up by my mod duties. So I always end up saying to myself, "just wait a few more hours, Adam will tell them how you feel". Contributing to discussions the way I'd like to would take a considerable amount of time I don't have. So thanks for always stating your views with tact.

Great post Adam!

Begging to differ here...I'm not saying that everyone who wants to practice parkour MUST follow a certain philosophy, but there is definitely a mindset that the founders had when they began training, and that mindset is what really separates parkour from just reckless running/jumping/climbing.

I'm not sure you understand what Shay was saying. By your reply, you made it sound as though he had said that the founders didn't have a philosophy. They did, and I don't think he's denying that fact. He's simply stating you can develop your own philosophy. 

[MedvisP]

Without a clear definition of parkour this discussion is going to be very difficult. If you define it as movement past obstacles then you don't necessarily need any philosophy to do parkour. However if the definition of parkour includes a certain philosophical aspect then yes, by definition you must follow it in order to be practicing parkour. I'm obviously not going to try to define it...that's up to you guys.

[Jordan Strybos]

I'm not sure you understand what Shay was saying. By your reply, you made it sound as though he had said that the founders didn't have a philosophy. They did, and I don't think he's denying that fact. He's simply stating you can develop your own philosophy. 

That wasn't really what I was arguing, I was merely questioning the fact that Shyam is saying that you can make your own philosophy. Sure, the philosophy that is associated with parkour can be adapted and fitted to the individual practitioner, but we cannot completely change the underlying philosophy and ideals that shape parkour into what we want them to be. As Adam said, 'Parkour isn't basketweaving, if you want it to be.'

Anyone who is curious or interested in getting some more information on the philosophies that shaped parkour and the origins of parkour should read these two articles by Dan Edwardes:

Le Parkour - An Overview
Parkour History

[Gabe Arnold]

This topic/question can be as difficult to answer as "What is the purpose of martial arts? To defend yourself or to kill the other person? To discipline your mind or to carve a deadly weapon from the body?" It's been thousands of years and those questions have yet to get a definitive answer.

It depends on how you view your training. Some see it as a fun activity, some as a serious discipline, others a mix of both. What matters is your satisfaction with yourself and what you've gained through training. I feel that as long as you follow universal ideas like respecting the environment and others, being a decent person, and passing on safe training styles, you're doing just fine.

[Nick Smith]

If you describe philosophy by training hard to achieve a goal and no philosophy just having fun I would say mix the two, because that's usually what keeps people INTO parkour.

[Micah.]

Well, even though there is a difference between someone who just does Parkour to do it; and a Traceur/Traceuse, the philosophy doesn't have to be applied to everything outside of PK/FR.

[Anias Zig Zag Reed]

If you describe philosophy by training hard to achieve a goal and no philosophy just having fun I would say mix the two, because that's usually what keeps people INTO parkour.

I do have a set of goals set in place and I plan to have fun while reaching them, but I just don't have a philosophy 

Well, even though there is a difference between someone who just does Parkour to do it; and a Traceur/Traceuse, the philosophy doesn't have to be applied to everything outside of PK/FR.

Please explain your thoughts on this Micah. I've always thought a traceur/traceuse was someone who practices parkour regardless of their reasons for doing it.

[David Jones]

While I think it's fine that everyone has there own motivations and reasons for doing Parkour, I do not think that we have any right in denouncing what the 1st generation of practitioners spent years refining. Just putting that out there.

"And you think, well, if they get their kicks out of that, you can't really say 'No, you can't do this!' You have to let them express themselves. But we should also be entitled to finish what we started, even if people don't adhere, it doesn't matter, since we never did things to please or bring crowds, so we just stay ourselves." -David Belle

[Micah.]

Please explain your thoughts on this Micah. I've always thought a traceur/traceuse was someone who practices parkour regardless of their reasons for doing it.

If you actually want to discuss, feel free to send me a msg/IM on FB. Don't care to discuss it here. :3

[Adam McC]

Well, even though there is a difference between someone who just does Parkour to do it; and a Traceur/Traceuse, the philosophy doesn't have to be applied to everything outside of PK/FR.

A philosophy that doesn't apply to absolutely everything is an incomplete philosophy. If you want to practice an incomplete philosophy, then that's your choice! But the rest of the world has a word for that: hypocrisy.

[Jordan Strybos]

While I think it's fine that everyone has there own motivations and reasons for doing Parkour, I do not think that we have any right in denouncing what the 1st generation of practitioners spent years refining. Just putting that out there.

"And you think, well, if they get their kicks out of that, you can't really say 'No, you can't do this!' You have to let them express themselves. But we should also be entitled to finish what we started, even if people don't adhere, it doesn't matter, since we never did things to please or bring crowds, so we just stay ourselves." -David Belle

+1. Great post.