Topic: A rant...that I will probably link to from time to time.

[Joe Brock]

Okay,
So I am only going to type this out once, and that's why I placed it in a nice little topic all by itself.  If Steven and Chris want me to, I'll put a copy of it somewhere else on the internet and link to it, but otherwise, it stays here.

I am not here to argue with you about what works best for physical training.  I'm not your mommy, and I don't care if you're still a weak/fat person 3 years from now.  I don't give my thoughts on strength/fitness because I "care about your differences of opinion" or because I feel the need to play armchair philosopher about exercise science.  I am glad to try to give specific assistance to people who ask, but if you feel to need to explain to me why you believe that "weights are stupid" or "strong people are slow" or anything else, feel free to STFU and move on.  I may not always be right, and if you have a good reason that I might be wrong, explain.  On the other hand, I reserve the right to not care.

I reserve the right to tell you that your problem is being a gigantic pussy.  I reserve the right to explain that endless curls and crunches are a huge waste of time, and if your goals require them, then I don't really want to talk to you.  I will recommend SS if you ask about weightlifting, because it works...and if you're beyond it, then you're probably educated enough about programming and periodization to not need to ask questions on a parkour forum.  I don't believe in super-NO2-infused-BCAA-enhanced-hydrolyzed-whey-substitute-soy-shakes nearly as much as I believe in REAL food and whole milk.  I don't care what the newest research from MuscleMag says, or what your rugby coach says, or what you learned while learning Dim-Mak from an overweight 47 year-old ninjitsu instructor!  At the end of the day, the only thing that I'm concerned with is MY increases, and the increases in the people that I personally coach.  I'm old.  I've heard your argument before, and it was ignorant then, too.  If you don't want to get better, then don't.  I don't care what you do.

[Steven Low]

[Mr.WWII]

haha... Beautiful

[Ryan Sannar]

like

[Tex Heuer]

I've noticed that anytime the word "endurance" is brought up on the forums it is almost with a tone of disdain, and I'm just curious to know the reason behind this.
When I swam I was a distance/endurance swimmer, so I still have this knee-jerk reaction to think "Endurance Training = Good", but that is obviously not the case here. I'll admit I know next to nothing when it comes to weight training and Parkour in general. So, why is endurance training considered a waste of time?

[Tom Coppola]

I've noticed that anytime the word "endurance" is brought up on the forums it is almost with a tone of disdain, and I'm just curious to know the reason behind this.
When I swam I was a distance/endurance swimmer, so I still have this knee-jerk reaction to think "Endurance Training = Good", but that is obviously not the case here. I'll admit I know next to nothing when it comes to weight training and Parkour in general. So, why is endurance training considered a waste of time?

Strong people tend to be able to endure longer.  People who can endure are not necessarily strong.  Focus in parkour should be on strength, endurance will come.

[Ryan Sannar]

As guys we don't like talking about "endurance".

[Roberto aka Screech]

As guys we don't like talking about "endurance".

xD xD xD

[Tex Heuer]

Yeah, none of those responses are enough to convince me endurance is bad.

[Mr.WWII]

Yeah, none of those responses are enough to convince me endurance is bad.

Very long and slow endurance training can actually degrade the contractile proteins in our muscles and increase the capacity of the slow twitch fibers while decreasing the capacity of the fast twitch fibers. This causes many elite endurance athletes to be extremely weak when it comes to things like vertical jumping or squatting.

That's one reason, and as said before, strength is a lot more important in parkour, and strength training actually translates over to endurance where as endurance training does not translate over to strength. So if you're going to take time out of your day to train, you're best off spending that time strength training to see improvements in your parkour.

That's basically it

[Tom Coppola]

Yeah, none of those responses are enough to convince me endurance is bad.

If your goals are endurance-related then endurance training is fine.  If your goals are parkour-related, then endurance is a waste of time.  Only you can decide your goals.  This is a parkour forum.  Most people here want to become more powerful, ergo it is recommended that they don't specifically train endurance.

[Chris Salvato]

Sounds like someone else has reached a tipping point.  When I reached it for like the 10th time, I just stopped posting

[Chris Salvato]

Yeah, none of those responses are enough to convince me endurance is bad.

The translation of endurance training to parkour ability is minimal.  The translation of parkour training to endurance training is not.

[Joe Brock]

Yeah, none of those responses are enough to convince me endurance is bad.

Endurance isn't bad.  It's just that most people train endurance incorrectly.  I am a huge fan of GPP (general physical preparedness) training.  Hill sprints with a sled are always a better option than jogging.  This can serve multiple purposes, as you can get more power in your endurance training.  It's when endurance starts to interfere with other aspects of your training that it becomes a big issue.

[Dan Elric]

Training slow twitch muscle fibers greatly offsets much needed strength for the reasons above.  Needless to say, true endurance is hardly about how efficient your slow twitch fibers really are, and more about cardiovascular capabilities, which does have a high translation to parkour.

Thing is, people say endurance and think slow repetitious jogging or lifting a 10 lb. weight 100 times.  This is not what actual endurance training looks like, and I'll be damned if I see an Olympic endurance athlete jogging for anything but recovery.  It's not that the gen fit denizens are anti-endurance, it's that they're anti-stupid.

[Tex Heuer]

Thanks for all the replies! Seems to make more sense now Like I said, I don't know much about any sort of conditioning outside the water, so I'm trying to learn all I can.

[Joe Brock]

I can readily admit that I'm not exactly the most educated regarding how certain muscle fibers work together, or how exactly all of the protein fibers are degraded by specific training methods.  That's why I ask questions from time to time about these things, because apparently my BA in bio-chem has simply not provided me with the kind of knowledge base that some of the guys here have.  They know FAR more than I do.

That being said, I have a good deal of what I'd call "experience under the bar."  I can say that mentally a squat is like a golf-swing for me.  "Grab bar, spread feet, hands in, elbows forward, GET TIGHT, TIGHT, up, step back 1, 2, feet right/left, press to outsides of feet, chest up, knees out, STAY TIGHT, butt back, control bar down, SQUEEZE THE BAR and STAY TIGHT, elbows forward, ...deep enough...., PUSH PUSH PUSH...Drive UP." (the last part of the thinking process starts to be far less 'mental cues' and more of a feeling that I've had over and over.  I would relate it to what He-Man was feeling when he yelled out "I HAVE THE POWWWEEEERRRR!!!"  Things often get fuzzy here, and I end up with tunnel vision if it's a good lift for me.)

My real reason for getting disheartened, is that too often (WAY too often) I am being lectured on how my system doesn't work to make you stronger or more powerful by some guy who's all of #130 and has upper arms the size of my wrists.  I keep hearing that I should be doing more "alternate side crunches" to get my "6-pack."  I used to be far more defensive, as in "dude, I have eaten 3 steaks, 2 sweet potatoes, drank 1/2 gallon of whole milk, 3 heaping handfulls of raw spinach, an orange, a banana, 1 chicken breast, 6 slices of bacon, some celery, and 1/2 dozen eggs...and it's only 4p.m.  Do you really think I'm going to have a well-defined '6 pack' because I did some crunches?"  Now, I use a simple test to determine if something belongs in my extremely simple system.  "Does this make me better?"  My goals are simple, my basic programming is simple, I don't add extra exercises unless they make sense in my big picture, and I don't really care about fads being promoted by a guy who can probably tell me as much about strength as he can about the rules to D&D.

So now, when these conversations come up, I use a basic test to explain why I think that their program sucks.  I look the guy in the eyes and say, "Before I pick up a new exercise, I think, 'If I were in prison...would this help me avoid being man-raped?'  If the answer is 'no,' then it has no business in my practice." 

It's not science, exactly, but for the most part I feel pretty awesome at the end of the day.  I'm bigger, stronger, and faster than I was a few months ago.  I have had to get creative to break through certain "sticking points" but thanks to research from guys like Louie Simmons and Dave Tate, I can simply see what worked for them and run with it.  Amazingly, the age of entitlement stretches everywhere.  Guys keep trying to come up with why they need a "customized" system, because they're "special" or "different"...NO YOU ARE JUST A PUSSY!  Get under the bar 4 days a week for the next 5 years, and then get back to me.

[Alex Patterson]

When I started Parkour. I didn't think I'd ever be lifting weights. In fact, I was kind of angainst lifting. I got into the hype of exercising, trying to get "toned" and my 6 pack. But being here, thanks a lot to you Joe, I've learned the beauty of lifting. True I'm just a beginner, but I feel so much better physically then I ever have. Feel better now at 34 then I did at 18. And its useful. I throw sheats of steel around all day for my work. And I barely even feel it anymore.

[Joe Brock]

When I started Parkour. I didn't think I'd ever be lifting weights. In fact, I was kind of angainst lifting. I got into the hype of exercising, trying to get "toned" and my 6 pack. But being here, thanks a lot to you Joe, I've learned the beauty of lifting. True I'm just a beginner, but I feel so much better physically then I ever have. Feel better now at 34 then I did at 18. And its useful. I throw sheats of steel around all day for my work. And I barely even feel it anymore.

That means a lot to me, actually.  I've never had anyone tell me, "I did what you were saying to do, and I feel weaker now."  I have heard from a lifting buddy of mine that he was "too banged up to keep up."  Last night though, he was telling me how much he missed it while remembering the "glory days."  I don't want glory days...I plan to keep this up until they have to pry the bar from my cold, dead hands.  I want my epitaph to read, "He was lifting until the day he died...and was stronger at 65 than most people will ever be."  Glad to hear you're sticking it out Alex.

[Steven Low]

Training slow twitch muscle fibers greatly offsets much needed strength for the reasons above.  Needless to say, true endurance is hardly about how efficient your slow twitch fibers really are, and more about cardiovascular capabilities, which does have a high translation to parkour.

Thing is, people say endurance and think slow repetitious jogging or lifting a 10 lb. weight 100 times.  This is not what actual endurance training looks like, and I'll be damned if I see an Olympic endurance athlete jogging for anything but recovery.  It's not that the gen fit denizens are anti-endurance, it's that they're anti-stupid.

Endurance at top levels is about running economy and muscular adaptations (mitochondria, lactate transfer, etc.). There is no difference in cardiovascular capabilities of elite endurance athletes because Vo2max does not correlate with performance. The thing that most highly correlates with elite endurance is ability to operate at % intensity before reaching anaerobic threshold. This has very little translation to parkour.

On a bit of a tangent, endurance requires a hell of a lot of time (just like strength trianing does) and it's less useful to parkour. Being stronger/more powerful is generally more useful unless you're going on long endurance runs through a forest or city practicing parkour.

e.g. something like steeplechase...