Topic: Gate vault

[Altimot]

Is usually used when you are getting over an object that is above your head, but can be both. You place the top half of your body on the other side of the object then place your hand for stability about as far as you can reach or at the base of the object, then swing your legs over the object and (some do it over their heads, making it a flip-like motion) then land and keep running. i love this vault and have been doing for a long time.  This was one of those vaults that was hard to describe. I was going to leave it for somebody els, but nobody has put it in the lexicon yet, so i just did it. If you don't get, maybe i could try a different way of explaining things.

[Quazar]

Ah, sweet!

I was just reading and saw that somebody had put gate vault in the lexicon, and my first reaction was  Oh, Jimmy should've done that one thats like sort of his speciality.  But it was you, tight!

Now lemme go read your description again time and see if I can actually understand it this time.

[Altimot]

haha. Man, that was a lot more tough than the underbar, and even you helped me with that one. lol. hopefully it will be understood by others.



wow, that even sounds a little like Yoda. I don't know how to talk regular!!! argh! lol.

[antwawn]

There's a gate vault done on a rather large fence in my crappy video, but good for instruction.

http://media.putfile.com/Antoine-Camera-Phone-PK

[Ryan Ford]

no offense but thats a pretty poor gate vault. in my opinion these vaults are pretty useless and dont even look good unless you actually go over, more like a front handspring. when people do it sideways they just looks scared or something. also, keep your body straight.

[michiganparkour]

gate vaults are one of my favorites to do...but when i first started doing them i landed faceing the gate or on my butt with the gate behind me but now i can do it really good

[Altimot]

no offense but thats a pretty poor gate vault. in my opinion these vaults are pretty useless and don't even look good unless you actually go over, more like a front handspring. when people do it sideways they just looks scared or something. also, keep your body straight.

actually when i am showing vaults to people who haven't seen pk before, when i do a gate vault to a good size drop they pretty much always really like it and it definitely gets the most oooooos and awwwwwws. So, saying it doesn't look good is more of your personal opinion than anything. Also, i find that these vaults aren't useless at all. When i am in a cat hang position on a wall that is higher than my head (which is pretty common) gate vaults are really effective to get on the other side of the wall. Also, i love doing them anyway because they are fun, and i can do them to nice looking drops.

[Quazar]

Yes, absolutely.
See the premise of a gate vault is getting over a wall with your stomach on top of the wall
One of the reasons that I'm partial to this move is that it is a very natural movement, in fact I was, without question, doing the equivalent of this very technique far before I had ever heard of parkour.

See this vault becomes necessary when you reach a simple wall, no roof on the other side, just a wall, straight up on one side, straight down on the other, if its too high for a basic vault but low enough that you don't need to vert. run to reach the top, than you have the option of a gate vault.

You can jump high enough to get most of your upper body over the wall, and then resting on your stomach, well you know how it works, but you see it's really a unique vault and its really the fastest way to get over medium sized obstacles

Whats more, it's highly low impact and roll efficient, because with your hand planted against the opposite face of the wall you are essentially supporting your drop further down than the edge on the opposite wall.  and the rotational momentum your body gets if performed well, you know with completely vertical technique, your body behaves like a wheel, with your feet just tapping the ground into your roll.

[Ryan Ford]

there is almost no situation in which a gate vault would be the fastest way over something for me. if i can get my upper body in position for a gate vault, i can just as easily wall climb and then top out and over or jump off. this is also much faster and offers just as much control and fluidity. i would love to see someone show me a video clip where a gate vault was truly neccesary. i havent ever seen one.

[Altimot]

are you kiddin me Think of wall running up a wall and instead of having to get your whole body over the wall, all you have to do is get half and you are good to go. it is also way easier in most peoples opinions. you don't have to muscle your way over the wall, just let your body's momentum do the work. remember that one gate at the DU jam when you cat leaped to it and it opened? well remember when Matt and i did a gate over it, maybe not for you, but that definitely seemed to be the easiest thing, have the most flow, and was the most natural way my body chose to go over.

[Ryan Ford]

Think of wall running up a wall and instead of having to get your whole body over the wall, all you have to do is get half and you are good to go. it is also way easier in most peoples opinions.

yeah its lazy and slow and usually sloppy (for most people). as for that gate, i could have cat leaped and easily immediately konged or side vaulted it. but you don't have to take my word for it, go ask people on parkour.net what they think about gate vaults.

[Altimot]

just because something is easier doesn't mean it is lazy. ever heard of the saying, "try smarter, not harder."

before i started pk i was doing gate vaults, and when i was playing a game (like tag or something) and i was being chased, all i had to do was gate vault and i had lost them because gate vaults were so much faster and easier to do then to climb over the fence. So a gate vault is definitely not too slow for me, but maybe all the ones you have seen were sloppy and slow, I'm not saying that you are wrong, I'm just saying you haven't seen a good one.  

Also, think of a wall that when you run up it, it is about 8 feet high on your side. then think that the other side of the wall is 12 feet to the ground. Now, you are telling me that you can cat leap and immediately Kong or side vault the wall (8 feet high) then drop 12feet to the ground and not get hurt??? Maybe you are so good at kongs and such that gate vaults really aren't fast enough for you. I am just telling you what i have experienced and heard about gate vaults.

[Ryan Ford]

Also, think of a wall that when you run up it, it is about 8 feet high on your side. then think that the other side of the wall is 12 feet to the ground. Now, you are telling me that you can cat leap and immediately Kong or side vault the wall (8 feet high) then drop 12feet to the ground and not get hurt??? Maybe you are so good at kongs and such that gate vaults really aren't fast enough for you. I am just telling you what i have experienced and heard about gate vaults.

what does that have to do with anything? of course i wouldnt get up there and try to vault over with little forward momentum to a 12 ft. drop. i would top out and then cat hang the other side and drop. are you trying to tell me you would gate vault that? that would be no different then dropping 12 ft. straight down.

[Quazar]

Guys relax,
It's no big deal.  A perfect top out can be more effective in many cases but I believe the gate still has purpose, the fact is, if you know your own limits you may find yourself in situations where you can't do a perfect top-out  (Truth is, most people can't do a perfect top-out in most cases.  I mean, if nothing else, since the natural habitat of the gate vault is similar to the natural habitat of the top-out, and a gate vault is, for all intents and purposes usually easier on the legs, I think a gate would be your best bet in the type of situation where a drop opposite the obstacle is just a little to much and for the sake of self preservation, if speed happens to be expendable it would be smart to gate.

The only trouble I'm having with that situation is, a "good looking" gate is sort of a y-axis rotation (I'm trying not to use the word flip because that's not really it) and thus I can't really conceive a such an awkward position as desirable when coming out over a drop

I suppose my final thesis is this, a "good" gate is not measurable in how vertical you get, no, thats just for aesthetics, a "good" gate is vertical only enough to properly clear the obstacle and to give the right sort of momentum into the second half of the movement, coming out of the vault so as to make the landing straight and clean.

What do you think, does that sound agreeable?

Wait, another post, oh, ok so of course that would definitely be the best way to take the drop, but don't you think that would take a little more time?  I don't know maybe not, it would take some slightly different technique.

[Quazar]

I think what needs to be emphasised in all of these cases is that you can't get lost is propriety, Whats makes any of these teqniques disagreeable is the very act of concentrating too much on the tecnhique, don't get me wrong I'm not trying to denote the importance of traing good teqnique, the fact is however that focusing on performing a move rather than focusing on clearing an obstacle will leave you with alot of efficiency lost in the teqnique.  No technique is always perfect in all situations, and you need to be able to tweak, blend and modify teqniques as new obstacles come, and with good technique in all of these "prototype/default techniques" you will be better able to do that.

[Quazar]

Wow I used the word technique 8 times there

[Altimot]

I can do a gate to a 8-9 foot drop and i haven't tried a 10  foot one yet but that is not the point. I am saying that when you said, " i would top out then cat hang on the other side and drop" a gate would be so much less movement and faster. And doing a gate on a 12 foot high drop is not like dropping 12 feet to the ground, you can slow yourself down with your planted hand, and it makes it a much easier drop.

But i guess this is where personal efficiency comes in. You are more effective topping out then cat hanging on the other side, while i am more effective doing a gate to the other side, and yes i exaggerated a little, but sometimes you have to do that to get your point across.  I just don't think that gates really aren't ineffective at all.   

And i apologize for being a little fiesty but it is just i have been doing gates my whole life, and my whole life i have experienced how effective they are, and when somebody says gates are almost never effective, it's like, "are you kidding??" because all the times i have done a gate build up and tell me the exact opposite.

[Josh Klute]

This is a really cool vault to see, especially when it is done correctly in a flow.  It's kinda like flinging youself over a wall, thats why it looks so cool.  What could be me fun then flinging youself over a wall?

[Gearsighted]

I have found them useful for the occasional quick move over a chain-link fence, where I can jump straight to my stomach and gate vault over, but I do agree with Demon, if you're just going sideways, it looks like what I refer to as a "Beached-Whale Vault" which is a sure sign of a upper-body strength and power defficiency.

The fact that you claim to "specialize" in gate-vaults tends to suggest that you find the most effecient because you train them more often..what a concept The point of Parkour is not to specialize, but rather, to perfect so many different possible moves that you can perform them all at a drop of a hat when the time is appropriate. If you love gate-vaults so much, I would actually suggest doing them LESS often, and working on all your other techniques more. There are really very few places where this move is the most effective way to overcome an obstacle, so you'll be better off with a deeper well of experience

[Altimot]

I "specialize" in gate vaults because i have been doing them much longer than i have been doing parkour. I haven't been just doing those since i started pk. I also thought that pk was about moving through you environment with the most naturally efficient moves as possible, and if gates come most natural to me then how is that not the point of pk? (BTW, i don't do gates as much as possible, i usually do them to get people interested in parkour or to have some fun, but i am not doing them constantly in my runs, just one every now and then). Like you suggested, next time i am just messing around i will probably monkey or something for fun instead of a gate. thanks for the tip.