Author Topic: Conditioning for traceuses?  (Read 1317 times)

Offline Euronin

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Conditioning for traceuses?
« on: September 12, 2010, 01:01:18 PM »
Should we traceuses use the same conditioning guys use or should we do something else? I was wondering. I researched this but I found nothing that told you WHAT to do.

Offline andrew

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2010, 01:31:47 PM »
It really depends on what your goals and your comfort level is (of how you look).
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Offline Rafe

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2010, 02:50:32 PM »
More or less, most studies of physical adaption have been focused on male athletes and there has been limited studies of differences between men and women in adaption to exercise. Basic principles of adaption are going to the same the basic movement patterns that are important to develop are going to be the same, squat, deadlift, lunge, press, dip, pull up, sprint etc. The programming may need to be somewhat different but what works best is not well understood as most athletic training was designed for men and most training designed for women is not designed for performance and is an adjunct to restrictive diets for apperance purposes.


There do appear to be differences, females generally have relatively greater endurance relative to max strength which is attributed to the effects of testerone on central nervous sytem enervation. To take an example if a man and woman can both squat 300 pounds at 255 the male might be able to do lift the weight just 5 times while the female might be able to do 8-10. This effect is not well studied nor what it implies for optimal training.

Women also have greater difficulty developing muscle mass because they produce less testerone which is anabolic.

A recent study indicated that protein post workout did not have the same postive effects for women as it did for men.

Due to weight distribution women have far greater difficult developing planche and pressing strength, and find bridgining and walking over much easier and generally better balance.

Females tend to have better finer motor controll and poorer gross motor ability.

Women tear their ACl about 3 times as often as males because of the width of their hips. So even more then men, women should focus on posterior chain strengthening and single leg stability training.

Women are less likely to tear their achilles tendon for unclear reason.

Women may have higher capacity for recovery due to higher levels of estrogen.

My advice to women would be to study the literature on differences in female adaption. Focus on strengthing the hips and stablizing the knee some hypertrophy in the upper body to allow higher peak strength, and experimenting with volume and frequency more then male athletes as what is optimal is less established for women.
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Offline Euronin

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2010, 02:53:28 PM »
Thanks rafe. Also I don't want to be bulky and look like a body builder (I doubt anyone here does. It slows you down by a bunch...)

Offline Dan Elric

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2010, 04:11:12 PM »
Thanks rafe. Also I don't want to be bulky and look like a body builder (I doubt anyone here does. It slows you down by a bunch...)

That's a common misconception many people have about doing weight lifting or any strength exercise (low reps, high intensity/weight) is that they'll oops accidentally the gym overnight (thank you kyle ;D).  It doesn't work that way, rather I wanted to have a slim build when I started out too, but as I gain muscle mass and strength I'm noticing that I have become faster, more agile, and finding my new found muscularity rather smexy.

However, since you're of the female variety of humans I can pretty much say for sure that you're not going to gain large amounts of muscle mass unless you really really try to.  As our lovely and knowledgeable Rafe has stated, women have a harder time gaining muscle mass, so you'll be fine.
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Offline andrew

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2010, 04:21:34 PM »
Plus people like Kyle who's calves are the size of my head have all that muscle for sprinting, wall runs, and cats (the climb up, use less upper body and push with your legs)
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Offline Rafe

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2010, 10:56:42 PM »
Thanks rafe. Also I don't want to be bulky and look like a body builder (I doubt anyone here does. It slows you down by a bunch...)

See my second point about testerone unless you take steroids as a women its virtually impossible to develop body builder level muscular hypertrophy.
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Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2010, 07:53:46 AM »
But there are conventions of "too bulky" that's going to differ from person to person (male or female).  Like it or not, the whole "lifting heavy will not make you big" statement is a little unfinished.  Lifting does give a certain appearance, even with a controlled diet.  Mind you, the worst that might happen is looking like Gina Carano, but there are those who think that is "too bulky."

(Amusingly, I was having a conversation with a client the other day..  and she said, "It's weird.  Other girls think that Gina Carano is too bulky, but guys just drool over her.")

My point is that.. I think what matters first and foremost is going to be how you look (that goes for everyone, really..  Vanity in our culture tends to trump performance, and I admire anyone who can prioritize them the other way around).  Figure out how you want to look, then figure out how you want to perform.. and let your programming/training fall into a happy medium between the two.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 05:49:36 PM by Chris Salvato »
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
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Urban Evolution
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Offline Rafe

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2010, 09:44:10 AM »
Looking bulky like body builder is basically not possible for a women without anabolics, if the question is getting bulkier then the individual girl finds attractive well that depends on her perception of beauty and her own body. Some girls are naturally more thickly built then what is currently considered attractive for these women adding even some muscle may make them less attractive in their own eyes and there are some women who have a relatively higher potential for muscular hypertrophy like miss carano but there not that common in my experience. In my experience these issues are far bigger problems in the minds of the women who are looking to start training then they are in reality. I have been training people in one form of athletic training or another for 7 years I just have not seen women getting to bulky even for their own goals, women who refuse to monitor their diet and keep getting fat despite training are the only ones I have seen this complaint from.
I shall not fear, fear is the mind killer the little death that precedes total obliteration

I will face my fear, I will let it pass over and through me and were it is gone, I will turn the inner eye and see its path, and only I will remain.

Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2010, 12:39:16 PM »
Oh, I agree with you 100%, Rafe.  But the fact of the matter is that the complaint exists, and there are ways around it.  Diet is going to be the MOST important factor, but training methodology can be modified, as well.  At the end of the day, a person should be happy with how they look.  Just because it's in their minds doesn't negate the fact that there is an issue to be dealt with.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
Lead Parkour Instructor
Urban Evolution
Parkour Virginia

Offline Steve Low

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2010, 01:24:02 PM »
Women should train like men.

That's why we do not distinguish between genders in our article sticky.

Check it out for more information about training.
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Offline Euronin

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2010, 04:11:30 PM »
Website or something else please? Oh and is Quadrupedal movement good? Thanks!

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 05:49:59 PM »
But there are conventions of "too bulky" that's going to differ from person to person (male or female).  Like it or not, the whole "lifting heavy will not make you big" statement is a little unfinished.  Lifting does give a certain appearance, even with a controlled diet.  Mind you, the worst that might happen is looking like Gina Carano, but there are those who think that is "too bulky."

mmm...Gina Carano
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Offline Euronin

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2010, 06:04:12 PM »

Offline andrew

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2010, 06:08:10 PM »
mmm...Gina Carano
It still amazes me how someone that hot can kick that much ass.
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The moment you stop fighting is the moment you lose.~Dan Kelley
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Offline Dan Elric

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2010, 07:06:16 PM »
Quote from: Kendall Ann "Cupcake" Smith
I fight for sketti

Offline Rafe

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2010, 08:11:29 PM »
Women should train like men.

That's why we do not distinguish between genders in our article sticky.

Check it out for more information about training.

I think this a supportable position by and large but its important to understand they are differences in how structure and adaptive capacity between males and females that are important and these differences are not well understood and most training has been developed for men.
I shall not fear, fear is the mind killer the little death that precedes total obliteration

I will face my fear, I will let it pass over and through me and were it is gone, I will turn the inner eye and see its path, and only I will remain.

Offline James Cavin

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2010, 11:07:28 AM »
The only time those considerations should even be relevant is when training a woman for a lifting competition of some kind.

Workouts should be structured around personal goals and personal progression, regardless of gender.

Offline Kyle

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2010, 12:30:11 PM »

Offline Steve Low

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Re: Conditioning for traceuses?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2010, 01:25:34 PM »
I think this a supportable position by and large but its important to understand they are differences in how structure and adaptive capacity between males and females that are important and these differences are not well understood and most training has been developed for men.

Well, most of the difference in hormonal, BF, and if they were hitting up endurance sports hematocrit as well....

Nothing too extreme that you'd need to switch up a program for it, but if anything women need a bit more neural work since they are better at skill/technique dependent tasks. Heavier is better but SS is a good base to start
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