Topic: Parkour and freerunning need a universal name.

[Dan Elric]

Hey man, be nice.  

after-all, you chose to read about this "shit"... it's not as if the post had a cryptic title.  

But just to be clear... your plan is to say you study l'art du dèplacement to prevent discussions such as these?  Or just to impede them from offending your ears/eyes?  I'm confused as to how that might work.

Marge: "You know Homer, it's very easy to criticize."
Homer: "Fun too."

Naw, it means I'm a practitioner of the art of movement.  And that means I don't care whether it is pk or fr or both, all I care is that I'm moving.

[touchworks]

fair enough... why didn't ya just say that in the first place? you're not the only one with sensitive eyes/ears y'know. I've been crying for the last 5 minutes - it's been awful. 

[Mark Toorock]

@MThomasFreerun -

I appreciate your honesty and I apologize if I've disappointed you.

To me this is no light matter - I stand by those definitions, I feel they are succinct, practical, true, and defensible. I don't feel a lot of definitions out there are.

If you'd like to show me another definition, I'd be happy to discuss, dissect, etc.

Definitions are important,  they are a basis for discussion and understanding, and they serve as a sort of "pronoun" for words - ex - I sat down last night in front of a thing with 4 legs, or maybe 3, and a flat surface - that was round, or maybe square, I don't really remember - anyway, I sat down at this thing and I put a plate on it and ate my dinner.

Now, this doesn't mean each person has to agree or even abide by the definitions. But, I do feel definitions should be clear, simple, and true as possible.

This doesn't stop anyone from practicing whatever they want and calling it what they want, however there ARE definitions for things, and Parkour and Freerunning are no different form other things in that respect.

Again, I didn't spend 2 hours planning what I wrote as "definitions" - I wrote what came off the top of my head - but I feel they are reasonable, simple, defensible, and true.

I don't feel that makes me narrow minded, I feel it makes me a seeker of truth and simplification.

After all, no matter what the definitions, the benefit to the definition is that they accurately define the activities so that people can TRAIN, LEARN, and DISCUSS.

If you feel that can be done in one definition - great, use that one. If you feel it takes two, use those two - if you like a definition from site X - then use it. Again, put it through my filter, even if just to humor me - clear, simple, and true.

[Jacob Carter]

this could have been stated in a less asinine way. M2 should definitely be shown more respect than that.

I said I was done posting but I felt this needed to be addressed. I woke up in a pissy mood because of lack of sleep and other things. So I would like to say sorry to M2 if I offended him in anyway.

[andrew]

Don't get me wrong i agree with M2 and have full 99999999+1% respect for him, but he is still just another traceur. Even though he has been godlike to the parkour community, he doesn't have to be treated like a god. Don't take it the wrong way or anything, hope i said what i meant and nothing'll be confused

[Timothy Chen Allen]

Don't get me wrong i agree with M2 and have full 99999999+1% respect for him, but he is still just another traceur. Even though he has been godlike to the parkour community, he doesn't have to be treated like a god. Don't take it the wrong way or anything, hope i said what i meant and nothing'll be confused

M2's... not... a... god?  But, but, but, what will I do with this altar I built?  I even cut my hair like M2!  I had plans drawn up for my Branch Toorockian compound! 

[WoodlandGhillie]

M2's... not... a... god?  But, but, but, what will I do with this altar I built?  I even cut my hair like M2!  I had plans drawn up for my Branch Toorockian compound! 

Sayings like these make me want to complain about the Karma system being taken away...

*back on topic*

I agree with M2. Definitions should be easy to remember, readily understood, and actually have a denotation that describes what each discipline includes.

There are two different levels on which people are discussing here: how to explain it to a beginner and how to explain it to another traceur.

[Imnotgoodbutimtrying]

I think parkour should be the universal name for both.
Doesn't it just sound good?

[WoodlandGhillie]

I think parkour should be the universal name for both.
Doesn't it just sound good?

Nope. See the past 4 pages.

[Imnotgoodbutimtrying]

i know i was just reading them and realized that was a stupid thing to post. haha

[FreeStyleFox]

Thanks for that Mark I haven't got to much information on the UF history I am going to have to check out those links and do some digging.  Its one part of my knowledge of the histories that I find I am lacking.  Also I need to get my dates down for pretty much all of it.

[Casey Boatwright]

M2 has explained it in as clear a way as possible.      When there is a definition theres a definition.   You don't call up Webster and tell them that they have the definition of desk wrong.   

[Mark Toorock]

I don't even see where the quote about asinine comes from so I'll just say this -

I deserve exactly as much respect as every other person on this board - no more, no less.

Jacob I will add this because being a dad to everyone here is part of my job - if you need to apologize and give an excuse for something - the best thing is to learn for next time so you don't end up burning any bridges.

"People may not remember what you said, but they will always remember how you made them feel"

Back to the definition thing - I'm very open to other people's opinions, and when someone comes up with a better definition of each and explains t me why it is better I will switch.

[andrew]

I deserve exactly as much respect as every other person on this board - no more, no less.

thats what i meant

[Alex frogger Brown]

But mark, heres where I see the contradiction within your post. You note that "Freerunning" was just a term a producer coined because it was easier to understand for native english speakers than "Parkour" or "L'art du déplacement". Yet you continue on to say that "Parkour" and "Freerunning" are 2 differant things. seems like a lapse in logic to me`.

[Dan Elric]

But mark, heres where I see the contradiction within your post. You note that "Freerunning" was just a term a producer coined because it was easier to understand for native english speakers than "Parkour" or "L'art du déplacement". Yet you continue on to say that "Parkour" and "Freerunning" are 2 differant things. seems like a lapse in logic to me`.

He's right, on both fronts.

[Mark Toorock]

Alex - the change is where I go on to say that things don't always mean what they originally did - usage is a huge part of language -

Hey man, what's up?

That's cool.

You don't look up, or think something is cold ...

Freerunning was originally meant to be a term for Parkour - but Sebastien's beliefs were not necessarily founded on "flips aren't parkour" - to him flips were part of HIS movement - which is what freerunning came to represent - and now it means pretty much what I gave a definition for.

[Jake Garner]

I hate these threads. But I always seem to end up posting in them. Why? haha

[MThomasfreerun]

Definitions are important,  they are a basis for discussion and understanding, and they serve as a sort of "pronoun" for words - ex - I sat down last night in front of a thing with 4 legs, or maybe 3, and a flat surface - that was round, or maybe square, I don't really remember - anyway, I sat down at this thing and I put a plate on it and ate my dinner.

Now, this doesn't mean each person has to agree or even abide by the definitions. But, I do feel definitions should be clear, simple, and true as possible.

Again, I didn't spend 2 hours planning what I wrote as "definitions" - I wrote what came off the top of my head - but I feel they are reasonable, simple, defensible, and true.

I don't feel that makes me narrow minded, I feel it makes me a seeker of truth and simplification.

After all, no matter what the definitions, the benefit to the definition is that they accurately define the activities so that people can TRAIN, LEARN, and DISCUSS.

If you feel that can be done in one definition - great, use that one. If you feel it takes two, use those two - if you like a definition from site X - then use it. Again, put it through my filter, even if just to humor me - clear, simple, and true.

Word.

I didn't mean to indicate I thought they were bad or poorly thought out. I think they are pretty good. But I can't accept that they are THE definitions. I don't think there is one definition anymore. I'm not sure there ever was.

I do happen to be of the ilk that doesn't like to differentiate. If you say you practice parkour, I don't automatically assume you don't flip, or that every movement of yours is designed is the most efficient. If you say you freerun I don't assume you flip, etc. I know many (most?) don't share my opinion and that's fine with me.


I'd like to say that the last page or so of this thread has been a bit snippy, and I don't think it's called for or necessary.  While Toorock and I disagree, I feel like our comments are fairly respectful in nature. There's no need to be uppity just because you are passionate. It's a forum, not a pissing contest.

[Alex frogger Brown]

Alex - the change is where I go on to say that things don't always mean what they originally did - usage is a huge part of language -

Hey man, what's up?

That's cool.

You don't look up, or think something is cold ...

Freerunning was originally meant to be a term for Parkour - but Sebastien's beliefs were not necessarily founded on "flips aren't parkour" - to him flips were part of HIS movement - which is what freerunning came to represent - and now it means pretty much what I gave a definition for.

The evelution of language is a concept I aptly comprehend. But it seems to me that the words have evolved parallel one another. You make a referance to the infamous qoute "flips are not parkour", but something must be understood about these qoutes from the forgien guys: They arnt fluent, native speakers, so sometime you have to look a little deeper into their words. Most people take sed qoute to mean "flips haveno place in parkour", what I believe David was trying to express is "just flipping around isn't parkour, theres more to it"