Topic: 52 Year old parkour?

[~Tiger~]

What is this supplement called?

[FrostySTL]

I believe you are thinking about something like "Inholtra Natural - Premium Lubri-Joint".

But it's basically just another form of Glucosamine/Chondroitin.

[Jordan Strybos]

You should talk to Brian MacLeod. He's a 50 year old who came to American Rendezvous and totally kicked @$$!

Muhammad, you stole my answer! 

But I think that I should also mention that Brian had played ice hockey for a vast majority of his life, which had given him a lot of physical capability (his challenge was controlling it).  He was in relatively good shape, but still I was really, really amazed.  I say go for it, but make sure you take it slowly and don't push him too hard.

Unless of course you think it would just be awkward to train with him, in which case I think you have full right to tell him that he's way too ancient....

[Casquinha]

M2 mentioned using a balance board.  If you don't have one, they can be cheap and easy to acquire or make.  But another alternative which I have used for strengthening a bum ankle is a sofa cushion.  It's not quite as effective, but it is still a great alternative.

[Mark Toorock]

Dave - my reason for testing (and conditioning) is to make sure of his capabilities - I have to say your suggestion of taking a 52 year old, taking his shoes off, and running him through stop start and lateral drills seems reckless to me. You are making this suggestion to someone who obviously doesn't have teaching experience and therefore made the great call of asking for help - that doesn't make me think that in this case the trainer will have any (let alone) adequate) experience to administer a good training sessions that takes all these points into account. Tiger this is not meant to be offensive, but on the contrary complimentary that you had the good sense to ask for suggestions.

Dave - while your points about what a 52 year old wants and needs may be right from a mental standpoint, you seem to have left out almost completely the condition of the average 52 year old set of knees.

I'm not suggesting that he can't "learn parkour" without a lot of predefined movements, etc, but rather that checking his physical state is the only responsible way to go with a 52 year old guy.

[DaveS]

Mark, I didn't mention drills anywhere. All I suggested was to start at the beginning with movement, and make sure you complete every step before moving on to the next one. I did in fact suggest putting shoes back on once walking and running had been sorted out. I'd be far more worried about going straight to externally defined squatting and pull-up routines than straight to walking barefoot.
I think that regimented training drills like that would be a complete waste of time in this instance. You don't need routines because in this instance the student already has a better understanding of his physical state and when to stop than the coach. A 52 year old has spent a long time with his body.

With an adult learner, who has an understanding of what slow and steady progression is, there is less direct input needed from a coach. If they don't know exactly what 'balance' or 'readiness' will feel like it doesn't matter, because they seem mature enough to be able to think about it. In fact it's better if they aren't sure, because they will think about it while they are trying the very basics, which is the ideal learning situation.

Even if you had an experienced coach on hand, you don't test someone's ability to move by asking them to do squats and pull-ups. You do it by starting with the most basic movements and then gradually increasing the difficulty until they find it challenging.

[Gregg]

Sorry I came in late to this...

Your goal is going to be SLOW progression without injury

Start off with joint mobility, slow. Older muscles NEED to be warmed up well. If you try to do something like Seb Foucan's warmup, start slow, and increase speed gradually.

Barefoot/ VFF walking is a start, but if he's not used to BF, keep it short.
Balance is a good skill - low impact. Start with standing balances, and low level moving balances. Walking curbs, railroad rails, stepping from rock to rock...

Depending on your dad's enthusiasm, he may NOT know when to stop. It's actually pretty common, especially if he used to be in pretty good shape but hasn't done anything in a while.

Walking, running, QM [crawling], climbing up & down easy things, small jumping [in place to get landing down, then small precisions and drops, then build to safety vaults] ...

Impact is going to be the hardest thing. Running and jumping. Just watch closely, and try to keep him from hurting himself

[Mark Toorock]

Dave, the fact that you see squatting as "externally defined" really ends the conversation for me

Assuming that because someone is 52 they have a better understanding of their body is in my opinion backwards, in most cases it means they have spent more time AWAY from natural movement. If your theory was correct, all 80 year olds would be like Yoda.

Please just be careful when you train older people.

[~Tiger~]

Please just be careful when you train older people.

For sure!

[DaveS]

Mark, it's the routine that's 'externally defined', not the squat.

Not having practised natural movement recently doesn't affect whether or not they know what they can do now better than someone else. They won't know how to move naturally, won't think they can do it, and also won't be able to do it.
They will be clear about what they can do, because they will have been doing it for a long time, and also about the things they can't do, because they will have been not doing them for a long time. Their confidence, their understanding and their ability will all have been consistently reinforced over many years

They won't know what they are potentially capable of doing, because they will have become used to living underneath their potential, but once they do start practising their understanding, confidence and ability will improve.

[Mark Toorock]

Not having practised natural movement recently doesn't affect whether or not they know what they can do now better than someone else. They won't know how to move naturally, won't think they can do it, and also won't be able to do it.
They will be clear about what they can do, because they will have been doing it for a long time, and also about the things they can't do, because they will have been not doing them for a long time. Their confidence, their understanding and their ability will all have been consistently reinforced over many years

I really can't even tell what you're saying.

I stand by my point that especially as people get older, you need to assess them, exercise is not "one size fits all" - and that properly aligned movement and some conditioning should accompany any other type of movement, especially movement used as a careful system to determine joint health and strength before doing forceful and strenuous activities. You have no idea what shape this 52 year old is in from the description, and therefore any exercise (movement) prescription that doesn't start in assessment is in my opinion reckless.

[Keifer S.]

Honestly, I'd probably recommend that he get in decent shape first. Unless your dad has been working out consistently, jumping and running around will lead only to injury. The overwhelming majority of 52 year olds are in no-physical-shape-whatsoever for parkour.

[Casquinha]

Honestly, I'd probably recommend that he get in decent shape first. Unless your dad has been working out consistently, jumping and running around will lead only to injury. The overwhelming majority of 52 year olds are in no-physical-shape-whatsoever for parkour.

Actually, being the very definition of what Parkour is, anyone who can walk under their own power is capable of some level of Parkour ... albeit rather limited for someone who is out of shape.  Parkour can get him into shape.  Just start simple and easy, and then progress patiently.

[Keifer S.]

Actually, being the very definition of what Parkour is, anyone who can walk under their own power is capable of some level of Parkour ... albeit rather limited for someone who is out of shape.  Parkour can get him into shape.  Just start simple and easy, and then progress patiently.

Don't start on the whole "Parkour is everything nonsense." When the word 'parkour' is used, it's in reference to the specific movements used by practitioners. Look at the bottom of urbanfreeflow.com for some of those movements.

Running and jumping into concrete isn't good for anyone -- whether you're 15 or 55, it will damage your joints. You won't get in shape by doing vaults repeatedly. Parkour is 90% conditioning and 10% specific movements. That couldn't be more true for a 50 year old.

[~Tiger~]

Very controversial subject.

You can condition as much as you like and your parkour will reflect that.

[DaveS]

Keifer, Parkour is not a list of movement, it's a training system for using movement to improve. Parkour is 100% non-specific movement. I agree, running and jumping might not be the way to start, but Parkour starts a long way before you get to that stage.
I wouldn't suggest using that website you mentioned for anything constructive.

Tiger, very ambiguous comment there

[Mark Toorock]

Dave, saying that Parkour is 100% non-specific movement isn't true either. We don't generally lift, throw, push, kick, drive or drag weight, even climbing is limited. If you look at movement used in parkour as a training system it natural, it is varied, but it is no where near 100% non-specific. There is a big difference between saying "you can get over an obstacle any way you want" and "parkour is non-specific movement".

If you are not doing weighted exercises you are not reaching your full potential.

If you are not doing bodyweight conditioning you are setting yourself up for unnecessary risk. (and also not reaching your potential)

[FrostySTL]

[DaveS]

Movement is bodyweight exercise, and just like all bodyweight exercise it can be used as effective conditioning if you do it correctly. Really, all bodyweight exercise is movement, but the exercises commonly referred to by people talking about 'bodyweight conditioning' tend to be very limited forms of movement, and far less useful as a result.

I agree, learning how to lift/carry things is a useful and complimentary skill. There are many crossovers between useful skills.

Movement in Parkour is never practised for specific situations. There are no set obstacles in the world, no set piece situations, and therefore no set techniques. Parkour is practised for practical application, which means adaptability rather than specialisation.

[Dom Rocco]

I agree with M2.

And seriously, young people that have no clue what it's like to be 50 regurgitating tips from the fitness forums as if they were gospel that apply to every living thing on earth doesn't sound like a very good plan. Things aren't black and white like that. Anybody can do that and it doesn't make you qualified or your advice good.

Definitely be careful. Especially with squats or landing in a squat. Can take a long time to get that form down and during the learning process, a 20 year old's body can probably take a few more poor reps than a 50 year old. You wouldn't want your dad to hurt himself. Make sure he's learning from someone that can do one well and is also reading up on the subject himself, since the Squat section from Starting Strength is probably a stronger source then say, 12 year old PKBboy420 from the APK forums.

Edit: typo.