Author Topic: Ponderings  (Read 30610 times)

wlf

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #800 on: November 05, 2010, 05:57:24 AM »
uh....(O_o)

Offline Kendy

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #801 on: November 05, 2010, 06:00:03 AM »
wah?
I linked you to the threads that possibly tolerate venting, but whaaaatever
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wlf

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #802 on: November 05, 2010, 06:01:55 AM »
oh okay.

Offline Dan Elric

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #803 on: November 05, 2010, 08:54:15 AM »
"I find in the universe so many forms of order, organization, system, law, and adjustment of means to ends, that I believe in a cosmic intelligence, and I conceive God as the life, mind, order, and law of the world.

I do not understand my God, and I find in nature and history many instances of apparent evil, disorder, cruelty, and aimlessness. But I realize that I see these with a very limited vision, and that they might appear quite otherwise from a cosmic point of view. How can an infinitesimal part of the universe understand the whole? We are drops of water trying to understand the sea."
--Will Durant
http://thisibelieve.org/essay/16519/

After reading about his life and listening to Durant's The Story of Philosophy and The Lessons of History, I'm compelled to agree with a lot of what he says.

Oh Will Durant...  Renč Descartes would have a bone to pick with him.  If you have read his works I suggest you pick up other works as well, especially criticisms of Durant's work and read those as well.

From the link: "How can an infinitesimal part of the universe understand the whole? We are drops of water trying to understand the sea."

Basically, what Durant is stating that the world is far too complex for us to understand the whole damn thing so what's the use in trying.  Well, we have made some great strides in understanding our world, which has led to some really really neat shit...  Like roads, medical advances, airplanes, indoor plumbing, toilet paper, and ice cream.  And we do continue to make advances.  However, I may have to agree that we cannot understand the whole as an individual.  A quantum physicist doesn't quite understand music theory, and nor does a physical chemist understand astrobiology.  We specialize, and that allows us to understand more.

I feel Durant might retort, "But you will reach some point where we can no longer grasp any more, that some level of knowledge will be too high for a single person to grasp."  And my response is that scientific advances will allow us to find ways to actually become smarter, and grow in intelligence as we grow in knowledge.  This point cannot be refuted because it is all ready happening.

Still, it is fun to look at a philosopher and go, "what are you attacking?"  Ayn Rand attacked altruism, John Locke attacked political sovereign, and Will Durant is attacking liberal beliefs.   This is made clear by the following, "We have too much moral liberty today, due to increasing wealth and diminishing religious belief."  Wait, he's making the assertion that we're too immoral because we are diminishing in religious belief and becoming too rich?  That's completely batshit insane.  Why?  Because we don't even know what morality even is.  And even making the assertion that God defines ultimate morality is completely silly.  Durant says himself we're clear and free thinkers, forcing your religious belief of morality on someone else makes you just as immoral as Hitler or Stalin for forcing their beliefs on other people.

In fact, if it were okay to do so and everyone went around and did it, we'd be in a state of utter chaos with every person trying to shove their beliefs down the other's throat.  In the same way that we'd be utter chaos if we all accepted moral relativism (or so argues James Rachels, Chris you might be interested in checking this out, he pretty much crushes cultural relativism).  Even Locke disagrees.  He went to great lengths to support religious tolerance, despite him thinking we have God-given rights.

For every great philosopher there is an equally great one with his foot up the other's ass.
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Offline Gabe Arnold

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #804 on: November 05, 2010, 03:43:56 PM »
Philosophy is just a small hobby of mine, so I read other works and authors as I get the time. I'm working off basic knowledge and my own weird sense of logic so bear with me. :P

"Basically, what Durant is stating that the world is far too complex for us to understand the whole damn thing so what's the use in trying."

I don't think he means that. Yes, the world is far too complex to understand in its entirety...but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. It's a cliche phrase but 'even though you can't be perfect, you aim for it anyway, and as a result you end up almost as good.' I think the point to take away is to realize that, as individual human beings, we're limited. We're not gods. But working together we can do incredible things - that's why Durant helped author the Declaration of Interdependence.

You mentioned we don't know what morality is. We also don't know the perfect government system, what truth or justice is, if there is a god(s), what wisdom is, or even why there's something instead of nothing. There's dozens of unanswered questions. We've come up with lots of good guesses but, far as I know, no one's solved them perfectly like an algebraic equation. And I like that. It's like...perfection in imperfection - the paradox. Because the equation is never solved we can adapt and change with the times. You give me your ideas, I give you mine, and through them we get something pretty damn good.

"For every great philosopher there is an equally great one with his foot up the other's ass."

Amen to that.

Smartest/wisest men and women I've yet met wouldn't know Bruce Lee from Aristotle. I'll bet the answers to life have been found thousands of times over, they just never got written down.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 03:46:24 PM by Gabe Arnold »

Offline Alex frogger Brown

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #805 on: May 30, 2011, 08:47:00 PM »
I bet Bill Gates uses Linux
*PMPA*
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Offline Shawn Yang

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #806 on: May 31, 2011, 08:54:59 AM »
Einstein once said that time was a perception, that we can control the speed at which time passes, corrrect?
Could we train ourselves to actively control the passge of time? speed it up and slow it down at will?
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Offline Alex frogger Brown

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #807 on: May 31, 2011, 04:33:07 PM »
Einstein once said that time was a perception, that we can control the speed at which time passes, corrrect?
Could we train ourselves to actively control the passge of time? speed it up and slow it down at will?

well, Einstien said its a perseption because passage of time changes relative to the speed at which you are traveling. Personally, I don't consider time to be "real"
*PMPA*
"And traceurs we shall be family, for motion sets us free. Power descendeth forth from our hands, as our feet carry us swiftly across the land. May our flow be like water to thee, and in play shall we forever be. In nomine Belle, et Yamakasi, et Spiritu APK. Amen."

Offline Shawn Yang

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #808 on: June 01, 2011, 12:49:59 PM »
well, Einstien said its a perseption because passage of time changes relative to the speed at which you are traveling. Personally, I don't consider time to be "real"

But, he was the one who said that time passes passes faster (for example) if you are with a pretty girl, but time passes slower when you're standing on coals, right?
Like Water shall we flow,
Like Wind shall we move,
Like Fire do we burn to run.

Offline Jake Lessin

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #809 on: June 01, 2011, 02:31:14 PM »
why is my hair white?


Offline Cpt_Rabbit

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #810 on: June 01, 2011, 06:58:43 PM »
Why do all zombie LARPS have to use nerf guns, I would much rather have one with airsoft guns.
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Offline andrew

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #811 on: June 02, 2011, 02:29:57 AM »
Why do all zombie LARPS have to use nerf guns, I would much rather have one with airsoft guns.

You'd have to use a mask
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Offline Micah.

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #812 on: June 02, 2011, 05:25:11 AM »
Why do all zombie LARPS have to use nerf guns, I would much rather have one with airsoft guns.
Because only homos LARP.

Offline Alex frogger Brown

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #813 on: June 02, 2011, 06:27:13 AM »
But, he was the one who said that time passes passes faster (for example) if you are with a pretty girl, but time passes slower when you're standing on coals, right?

lol OK, I misunderstood your question. Idk, Its an intresting thought though. In theory, I dont see why you couldn't train your brain to do it

And please remember everyone, the point of the thread is to be thought provoking
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"And traceurs we shall be family, for motion sets us free. Power descendeth forth from our hands, as our feet carry us swiftly across the land. May our flow be like water to thee, and in play shall we forever be. In nomine Belle, et Yamakasi, et Spiritu APK. Amen."

Offline Johnny Tiessen

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #814 on: June 02, 2011, 09:20:31 AM »
What if all of you are just M2 using a bazillion different accounts. :-Sarcasm
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Offline Shawn Meilicke

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Re: Ponderings
« Reply #815 on: June 02, 2011, 09:37:57 AM »
Well M2 does have super powers
"Though all the world may hate us, we are named.
The shadow overtake us, we are known
We're more than carbon and chemicals
Free will is ours and we can't let go
We are the image of the invisible"
-Thrice


1+1=10