Author Topic: Yet Another "how do I train" topic  (Read 1101 times)

Offline petit.padavoine

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Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« on: March 04, 2010, 11:11:35 AM »
I have virtually no equipment, except for a pull-up bar.

I know very little about exercising, and although I did intensive gymnastics a long while ago, I've lost most if not all of it, to the point that I can barely do 10 pull-ups or sit-ups.

I see people recommend Starting Strength, but most of it requires equipment.

Should I just use the WoD?

Is there an intermediate step from APK warmup only to APK warmup + WoD that I should try out?

Also, could I get a good resource on stretching after my workout? I'm too cheap to buy the Performance issue.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 11:13:43 AM by petit.padavoine »

Offline Romans82

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2010, 07:32:10 PM »
Do a lot of pull ups and plyometric workouts. Also pushups are the best workout you can do if you do a lot of them.

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2010, 09:16:30 PM »
Roman, firstly, welcome to the forums. Secondly, stop giving out poor advice.  Really, dude, this advice and your advice in other threads has not been too great and people are going to be wasting their time and/or getting hurt with advice you throw out there.

Petit,

What are your goals?  No advice we give you here is worthwhile until you give us the goals you would like to hit.  If you don't know how to set goals then check out this article:

http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/05/setting-and-achieving-goals/
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Offline petit.padavoine

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 11:17:08 AM »
I had read this, sorry I forgot to mention it.
TBH, I think the whole setting goals thing is a bit unrealistic.

I don't know how feasible something is for me, what kind of level of fitness it requires compared to my own, etc...

It seems that setting goals has two main points:
* Knowing what to work out (ie which muscle group)
* Psychologically keeping you focused / motivated

The first is easy: whatever is necessary to Parkour better. My end goal is not X pushups in X minutes, it's to have the necessary muscle strength to vault / move comfortably. From some stuff on the parkour.net forums I read, it seems that core strength is pretty important, but really I don't know exactly what one refers to as core (abdominals?), so that doesn't help much.

The second is no problem: I'm pretty sure I'm motivated enough to stick to a routine.

Anyway, if you can help me set goals, I'd be glad. My first goal is to reach a level of strength where I can efficiently start learning basic vaults, and be limited more by lack of technique than by lack of strength.

Also, another article I saw (possibly also on eatmoveimprove) mentioned that strength and endurance training are conflictual. However, it seems Parkour requires both.
From what I understand, an endurance goal is about quantity (100 pushups) whereas a strength goal is about burst (10 pullups in 10 seconds). I'd like pointers so as to train an appropriate balance of the two.

Offline Drew H

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2010, 11:10:26 AM »

The second is no problem: I'm pretty sure I'm motivated enough to stick to a routine.

I don't really know you, but from personal experience... Once you get into an intensive routine you'll be cursing it the whole way and it's hard to stay motivated. It's easy to say "I can stay motivated" but when it comes right down to it, you'll most likely be saying "I can cut down a few reps" then it will be "I can just skip today, it won't hurt." So it's much easier said than done.

Setting goals gives you something to strive for, and I sometimes set psycological goals. Like, "How long will it take before my friends start to notice I work out, etc..."

Remember, this is all from personal experience....
Have you forgotten about the days when we just wanted to rock cause we like it that way?


Offline petit.padavoine

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2010, 12:06:11 PM »
That's probably true, but ATM I have no idea what goals I should be setting for myself.

Being able to do the WoD every day would be nice (I could only do 35 or so burpies out of the 100 I was supposed to do today).

Offline Drew H

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 03:22:39 PM »
That's probably true, but ATM I have no idea what goals I should be setting for myself.

Being able to do the WoD every day would be nice (I could only do 35 or so burpies out of the 100 I was supposed to do today).

Thats cool, as long as you tried. You don't HAVE to do the required number of reps, just try your best.  :)
Have you forgotten about the days when we just wanted to rock cause we like it that way?


Offline petit.padavoine

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2010, 11:02:07 AM »
Bump?

For now I alternate the two following workouts:

- about 40 Burpees, with rest in b/e sets of 5 - 10
- holding L-sit, Frog Stand, Handstand, being careful not to hold till failure.

TBH I really have no idea what my goals should be, but here's something to start with:

- 20 pullups in 30 seconds
- 30 burpees in 50 seconds
- 30 sec L-sit hold
- 5 Handstand push-ups in 15 seconds.

I don't know how feasible this is, and if training for it is as simple as actually doing the specific exercise.

Also any tips about optimizing workout / rest day cycles, and reps / rest cycles during a workout, would be appreciated.

Random questions about stuff I've seen on the forums:
- "You won't gain strength if you do not let your body recover". How do I know when I'm recovered?
- "You won't gain strength without weight training". Is that true? To what extent? Are barbells the main training equipment? How useful / necessary is weight training for Parkour?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 11:18:22 AM by petit.padavoine »

Offline Andrew Stockton

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2010, 03:53:17 PM »
Thanks for giving some goals. It's really only if you give goals that people can help you.

I'm pretty sure you can achieve all those goals by doing as many as you can in the given time limit, then just upping that number. Actually, some of those look very challenging... 20 pullups in 30 seconds? I'm not sure how helpful those goals may be to your overall goal, though. Going by a previous post, you want to gain enough strength to practice parkour safely and comfortably, right?
If so, all I can say is that some progress is possible without using extra weight, but not much. It's virtually impossible to strengthen your legs without extra weight. Upper body is a little bit easier since there are many more ways to decrease leverage, like one-armed pushups, etc. But in the end you're really going to need to find a weight room somehow. You can also go out in nature and deadlift big rocks, I guess. Or squat with them. Weight room is much more precise and convenient though.

As for rest days, you should have at least one, but no more than two or three ideally, between each workout. As for resting in between sets, I'm not sure. I can tell you that when I'm weight training I often rest 5 minutes in between my heaviest sets. Bodyweight workouts are less intense, though, and so I'm not sure if that same amount of time would be good for you.

Random questions:
Rest days let your body recover. Most of the time, one or two days is enough. In special cases, such as when you are doing very heavy deadlifts, longer periods of rest are required. But you're not close to that stage yet, from what I can gather.
Like I said above, it's very hard to gain strength without weight training. I would go so far as to say every practitioner of parkour, and probably most every other activity as well, could benefit greatly from weight training. Barbells are the favored method of moving weight around here. Dumbbells also work, but are less convenient when you want to add weight. Don't use machines to weight train.

You seem pretty confused about where to start. You've set up a basic routine there, but it does very little to strengthen legs. You are going to need to find a way to weight train, buddy. Oh, one other thing... I saw you asked what core strength is. To the best of my understanding, your "core" are the muscles around your waist- abs, obliques, glutes, hamstrings to a degree, adductors, abductors.
The body thrives when the heart has a mission.
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i dont work ever really ever, i just train parkour and stuff.
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Offline petit.padavoine

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2010, 10:38:37 AM »
Actually, some of those look very challenging... 20 pullups in 30 seconds? I'm not sure how helpful those goals may be to your overall goal, though. Going by a previous post, you want to gain enough strength to practice parkour safely and comfortably, right?

Heh, yeah, hence my reluctance to try and find goals. So strength goals would be mainly about dead lifting / squatting a certain amount of weight?

Also, I've seen someone in another post talk about losing body fat. Is it important? Will strength training take care of it to some extent, or are aerobic activities (jogging?) better suited for it? If jogging is good, should I just jog almost as long as I can every three days or so?

Offline Andrew Stockton

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2010, 02:04:27 PM »
Strength goals are, at their heart, about exerting a given amount of force in a given fashion. Your strength goals depend on what you want to achieve: if having a stronger squat, and therefore stronger legs in general, is a goal of yours, then that's your goal.

Squats and deadlifts are both great strength exercises, but there are many more out there. If you can, buy this book: http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-2nd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0976805421.
If not, at least read this wiki thoroughly: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki

Starting Strength is a book and program very heavily favored on this board for its simplicity and in-depth understanding of body mechanics. Reading this book will give you a very good working knowledge of five basic weightlifting exercises which have a high translation to athletic movement, along a brief overview of many more. It can also give you a basic orientation in strength training and help you set goals by showing you good exercises to use and how those exercises improve your athletic performance.

As for body fat, it again depends. If your goal is to have a better-looking body, losing fat is indeed important. Having low body fat is the most feasible way to achieve a six-pack, for instance. However, if your goal is to gain strength, losing body fat will actually hinder you. Unless you are sedentary in the extreme, it's almost impossible to lose body fat and gain strength at the same time. In fact, the most gains in strength will be seen if you consume more calories than you use up in a day- you'll get fatter, but you'll also gain muscle. Gaining fat goes hand-in-hand with gaining muscle.
If your goal is to lose body fat, consume less calories. Eat real food, like fruits, veggies, lean meats, etc (see eatmoveimprove.com and the stickies on this board for more detail).
The body thrives when the heart has a mission.
Quote from: Impulse1990
i dont work ever really ever, i just train parkour and stuff.
Quote from: Impulse1990
Welp im just gona ignore it cause i thinking im going on the right path

Offline petit.padavoine

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2010, 11:10:33 AM »
OK, then I'm not interested in losing fat.

I'll check out Starting Strength.

While I still don't have barbells, any bodyweight exercise suggestions?

Offline Steven Low

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2010, 11:24:41 AM »
OK, then I'm not interested in losing fat.

I'll check out Starting Strength.

While I still don't have barbells, any bodyweight exercise suggestions?

Tomorrow we're publishing a bodyweight primer.
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Offline Steven Low

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Offline petit.padavoine

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2010, 11:36:42 AM »
Wawesome. Time to get started then.

Here's my routine for now:

Warm-up:
- burpees
- squats

Mobility:
3 sets of 5:
- wall slide <-- not much, as I kept the static stuff for cooldown, and I don't (yet) have an elastic band for scapular mobility.

No skill work for now. "Anything that you can practice extensively for 5-15 minutes without becoming significant fatigued, but that you still need to master is classified as skill work." <-- not much there I'm afraid.

Strength:
3 sets of 15s:
- Hold frog
- Hold handstand against wall
- L-sit holding on chin-up bar
- Tuck front lever

Cooldown:
3 sets of 15s:
- German hangs
- Front splits
- Knee lunge

Thanks so much for the help and a great article.
Any tips, or flaws pointed out in my routine would be greatly appreciated. Also, any link to a nice resource for manna progressions (tucked and partial) would be nice, I could only find stuff related to religion when googling manna progressions -_-.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 11:55:47 AM by petit.padavoine »

Offline Steven Low

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2010, 04:27:15 PM »
That's fine for now.

Like I said, first work the compression work and L-sits/straddle Ls before you start manna work. Once you get good at those on the floor start the manna progressions.
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Offline petit.padavoine

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2010, 10:42:19 AM »
Quick update: it's been going great. I've done a few for now (about 6-8, not sure exactly), and I've noticed a definite improvement.
I still need work on pulling exercises, but I can now hold the three 15s L-Sits (whereas at the beginning I'd rarely even last 15s on the first one), and the frog planche is really easy (thinking of going to the next progression relatively soon).
So ty again.

Offline tibo

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Re: Yet Another "how do I train" topic
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2010, 10:18:35 PM »
1) "You won't gain strength if you do not let your body recover". How do I know when I'm recovered?
2) "You won't gain strength without weight training". Is that true? To what extent? Are barbells the main training equipment? How useful / necessary is weight training for Parkour?

A:
1)there are 2 ways to know if your body is recovered. 1: if you're sore the next day, you should be recovered when you cant feel anything. 2: if you're NOT sore, wait at least 48 hrs.
2)its more "you wont gain strength without strength training". barbells and dumbells are used for every muscle group so yes, they are. i'm not a parkour pro, so correct me if i'm wrong, but yes it is necessary as you will need to climb and jump things. how will you clear an obstacle you're not strong enough to clear? train.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 10:22:53 PM by tibo »
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