Topic: Glute Weight Training for Sprinting and Running Power.

[David - parkourmissionary]

I did some looking around and didn't find a comparable topic on this subject matter exactly, so I thought I would bring this to the table for all those interested. It is a little long, but perhaps well-worth the read.

In Brief (for quick and convenient reading): I found an article that shows what exercises are better than even squats and deadlifts for weighted glute-training.

The Article: http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/dispelling_the_glute_myth

In Not So Brief:

Backstory: The other day I mentally stumbled upon a glute-isolation exercise as my mind was wandering (supposed to be praying, oops.)  and I tried it out later that day. It KILLED my glutes, without really touching the other muscles in my body in any significant way; which is good as I wanted a good isolation move for my glutes that I could increase in difficulty.

I went online to see if there were similar exercises for the glutes and I had to wade through hundreds of articles that claimed that squats and deadlifts were the "best exercise" for your gluts. Hah! Silly people. (While these exercises are good and I use them both heavy several sets per week), they don't maximize muscle effort, plus they engage other muscles.) All of a sudden, I came upon an article that displayed exercises like the one I had designed for myself (more or less occurred to me, actually). Not only that, but this guy had done research into what exercises engaged the maximum potential volume of the gluteus maximus and minimus muscles.

In Brief Regarding the Article: The researcher found that the percentage of the muscle activated in the kneeling style squat only activated 67% of the muscle and deadlifts only activate 55% of the muscle.

This article touts exercises that activate the muscle 100% and more. I'm still searching to find out exactly what he means by saying that an exercise can engage more than 100% of the muscle (perhaps the adjacent muscles come into play, but then deadlifts would probably win it out?), but nonetheless, this article is still an impressive one in theory.

The above article shows the way to train the glutes, which is especially important in light of the article I just read by StevenL at http://www.americanparkour.com/content/view/939/428/  which states that the Glutes account for 40% of sprinting/jumping power(!!!).

This is obviously an important idea for everyone in parkour who may want to run faster and jump with more power (but who wants to do that?).

Why This Is Important? (At least to me)This really caught my attention because I am designing and working a seven-day routine that heavily trains essentially most of the body's muscles (basically missing just the neck muscles) in both an isolation and a compound manner. In order to complete my program to my satisfaction, I needed to find glute exercises that left the other muscles untaxed to allow for ideal rest.

In Conclusion...So, while squats and deadies and the like are important for training, they do not perhaps allow for the greatest potential growth of the glutes in power; so keep doing them, but add a real glute focus to get more benefit from one of the most powerful-and arguably one of the most important-muscles in the body.

I am going to try this article's suggested exercises and see what happens, and then report back to y'all on my personal experience after some time with the new glute regimen. My hope is to blaze the trail and bring back my experience to the benefit of the parkour community and our posterity. Please respond with your thoughts and possible critiques. Thank you all.

Traction and Speed,
David

[Andy Animus Tran]

Bret Contreras is a really smart guy.  A REALLY smart guy.  But be careful how you interpret what he says.  One thing you have to realize is that isolated exercises and many of the glute exercises that Contreras has developed or supports are extremely beneficial to one's program, particularly in athletics... but as an accessory lift.  I simply do not believe that traceurs and freerunners (or most people in general) are doing enough ham-glute accessories or hip extension exercises in addition to what they're already doing (I partly blame the supreme popularity of SS for this, but I'm not denigrating SS at all).

In any case, it's good that you are so excited about this..  But also realize that these should be accessories, and not primary focuses.

[David - parkourmissionary]

I just found the answer to my own question literally seconds ago:

This article touts exercises that activate the muscle 100% and more. I'm still searching to find out exactly what he means by saying that an exercise can engage more than 100% of the muscle (perhaps the adjacent muscles come into play, but then deadlifts would probably win it out?), but nonetheless, this article is still an impressive one in theory.

The answer is that the percentages are given in MVC, which stands for Maximum Voluntary Contraction.

The first 15 to 20 paragraphs in this article http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/inside_the_muscles_best_shoulders_and_trap_exercises answer my question.

The percentages don't reflect percentage of the muscle activated, so much as how voluntary muscle is contracted. Sorry for the confusion.

[David - parkourmissionary]

Yeah, thank you for your comment/advice.

But also realize that these should be accessories, and not primary focuses.

To be sure I understand, how do you mean "accessory." Accessory as in they assist in the performance of other, more integral and compound movements?

[FastGuppy]

I don't really know what you mean by MVC but Olympic lifting is better that glut isolation . . .

[Chris Salvato]

I don't really know what you mean by MVC but Olympic lifting is better that glut isolation . . .

Generally yes.  Not always.  Context dependence.

[Andy Animus Tran]

To be sure I understand, how do you mean "accessory." Accessory as in they assist in the performance of other, more integral and compound movements?

Yes.  And in most cases, people (at least on this forum) don't really need it.  They're better off just getting their squats, deadlifts, and cleans better.  They're better off continuing with their jump and sprint training.

For the record, though, I use a lot of the hip extension exercises that Contreras supports in my own training.  Is it useful?  Yes.  Will it replace deadlifting?  Hell no.

It KILLED my glutes

This bothers me a little.  Don't start to confuse muscle fatigue/soreness/what-have-you with muscle activation.  Just because something gets fatigued doesn't mean that it's working that hard.  Take 90% of the ab exercises out there, for instance.  Most of those are actually hip flexion exercises that the abs assist in.  But your abs feel it, not your hips.

[FastGuppy]

The whole basis of this study bothers me. It's obvious that isolation exercises will work more of that muscle. This doesn't mean you're going to see good results, though. These exercises are okay for intermediate lifters or some people with injuries but for novice lifters full body movements all the way.

Dead-lifts/squats teach you how to use your whole lower body into one harmonious movement. Isolation exercises don't and consequently fail to provide good results (saying you're solely doing those lifts).

It seems to suggest  that we should be doing their exercises instead. That's what really gets me.

[Andy Animus Tran]

Actually, Guppy, you have to recall that the average Tmuscle reader has been doing basic bodybuilding programs for years often (probably pulled from Flex magazine or some other such thing) and has stagnated for quite some time before reaching T-mag.  The audience that Contreras is writing for is vastly different than the average APK member.

[Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!]

ya i have had that article favorited for a while.  i believe chris or steve linked it to me when i asked them about fixing my quad dominace issue and it has helped ALOT!  i did them for a couple months then started starting strength, but SS irritated my ITBS so now im back to accessory lifts only until i can afford a PT...   P.S. i love weighted hip thrusts right now its like the only thing i can do for my glutes that doesn't make my knee feel like its getting pulled apart

[David - parkourmissionary]

Yeah, alright, everybody brought up a lot of good points that I didn't really think to include in my post for any reason.

One thing I didn't include is clarification for those who might read this who aren't very experienced or knowledgeable in fitness and development is the fact that this cannot be a standalone exercise, as you said, Andy. Thanks.

For that matter, it would be very rare that a single isolation exercise should stand completely alone because of the muscle and power imbalance this could cause among other things. One exception is perhaps injury recovery training.

So don't drop your squats and deadlifts; compound exercises are useful and important in muscular development, as no movement (skeletal) muscle works totally alone all the time.

The context for this whole post, which I poorly conveyed, was that I am doing a training program that uses compound movements (squats, deadlifts, sprinting, etc.) in conjunction with isolation exercises. The purpose for this is so that my body will be adaptable and not become bound by the limits of just one form of exercising a muscle in one specific way or through just a portion of the muscle's potential range of motion, but throughout the as much of the ROM of each muscle in the body as safely possible. In addition, by throwing more variety of training in, I can help keep my body guessing and force it to try adapt faster than if I had absolutely no variety.

I am using this isolation exercise, among others throughout my body, to try to encourage more than what just compound movements do on their own. (I've been doing a lot of translation and formal writing recently. This probably explains the clunkiness of my posts of late, please excuse-it's actually kind of a sign of respect for you all that I'm speaking more formally without really thinking about it, if that makes sense.)

This bothers me a little.  Don't start to confuse muscle fatigue/soreness/what-have-you with muscle activation.  Just because something gets fatigued doesn't mean that it's working that hard.  Take 90% of the ab exercises out there, for instance.  Most of those are actually hip flexion exercises that the abs assist in.  But your abs feel it, not your hips.

Got it, thanks for the caution. This was more or less an over-zealous statement; me being excited at feeling a level of positive muscle pump and fatigue in the glutes that I have not gotten from other exercises. In any case, I'll keep a weather eye out for indications of progress or lack thereof.

These exercises are okay for intermediate lifters or some people with injuries but for novice lifters full body movements all the way.

I'm interested in your viewpoint, Guppy. Why do you say this?

[FastGuppy]

Novice lifter, BB or not, you will have better gains focusing on strength with lifts including the whole body. This is because of the hormones the strength gives you to get bigger. Novices get better results from full body workouts precisely because they are untrained.

Furthermore, full-body lifts should be a key focus to most athletes without injuries preventing them to do so. I'm sure these exercises can be incorporated and used, but if God decided if it were up to me to get rid of one of the exercises, squats, dead-lifts, powerclean etc, or the list of glute exercises you provided, I would choose the former. Full body motion is better in general for athletics and even body building.You’ll find just isolation exercises won’t give you the full results.

[Andy Animus Tran]

I'm with Guppy.  Accessory work is completely unnecessary for the novice lifter.  Anything less than a year (or even two or three, depending on genetics) is probably better off just sticking to the compound big movements.

[Steven Low]

For people with muted glute function (most people nowadays who sit through school/desk job etc.)

I do think glute work in addition with SS is important so people don't become knee squatters + it should help them learn proper technique by sitting back more.

IMO there's nothing wrong with it in this case.

[BobT]

Having been battling patellar tendonitis for over a year I found some of the glute exercises extremely benficial (Steve, thanks for the great article  on EMI BTW - it's what lead me there).  I've been cycling deadlifts with brief periods of GHR & reverse hypers for a while now.  Squatting has been out thanks to my knees. 

A few months ago I started doing the weighted glute bridges as an accessory lift to try to correct some lazy gluteal muscles.  I'm happy to say that my knees haven't hurt for 2mos now!  I guess I needed some serious correction.  I'm back on DLs now, but I'm keeping the glute bridges in my program.  Maybe next month I can try front squatting again...

Anyway, the point I'm making here is the same as what Steve is saying.  Some of us have been sitting at the desk too long and need a good kick in the ass (pun intended) to fix things that life has broken.  If you are very quad dominant, glute isolation is going to help big time.  Just don't forget about the rest of the posterior chain.

[FastGuppy]

Having been battling patellar tendonitis for over a year I found some of the glute exercises extremely benficial (Steve, thanks for the great article  on EMI BTW - it's what lead me there).  I've been cycling deadlifts with brief periods of GHR & reverse hypers for a while now.  Squatting has been out thanks to my knees. 

A few months ago I started doing the weighted glute bridges as an accessory lift to try to correct some lazy gluteal muscles.  I'm happy to say that my knees haven't hurt for 2mos now!  I guess I needed some serious correction.  I'm back on DLs now, but I'm keeping the glute bridges in my program.  Maybe next month I can try front squatting again...

Anyway, the point I'm making here is the same as what Steve is saying.  Some of us have been sitting at the desk too long and need a good kick in the ass (pun intended) to fix things that life has broken.  If you are very quad dominant, glute isolation is going to help big time.  Just don't forget about the rest of the posterior chain.

Which is what I mentioned in my former posts; it depends. However, in the grand scheme of things, Olympic lifts are more effective in the majority of athletic careers and endeavors than glute-isolation exercises. The article, at its best intentions, inferred this is false. Too many people, with nothing physically wrong with them, get wrapped up in looking for results from more esoteric exercises when they miss the more simple and effective beauty of the results provided by Olympic lifting.

[David - parkourmissionary]

Maybe I failed to make this evident, but

I do not advocate isolation over compound, nor compound over isolation. Yes, compound benefits much more highly by means of the hormonal boost and the synergism that compound moves promote. Which is why I do them myself.

Because I choose to do more exercises than just my compounds in order to get more out of my body (seeking maximum muscle activation, recovering from the compound exercises, allowing time for such) I also work isolation. Furthermore, isolation stimulates the muscles in a different way. Different being a good thing here for purposes of forcing the body to be more adaptive (and helping to prevent plateaus by means of wider variety).

Simply put, there are exercises that are better for the glutes (not "the whole body, whole posterior chain, ability to run up mountains naked covered in honeymustard with a bear closing in... etc.) and the glutes alone. The purpose is to target a single to benefit the whole. The exercises I present by means of the article are better for targeting the glutes than the compound exercises.

Now let's talk semantics,

the reason I posted all this is because so many people out there advocate oly lifts as "the best possible thing for your glutes." This depends on what one is looking for. If you want to have your glutes function only as parts of the whole that are not as fully targeted to their full potential, then this is true. If you want to target your glutes specifically/only, then this statement is not true because, as fastguppy said, that an isolation exercise would focus the muscle and activate more of it, and it alone, than any other exercises that do not force the glute to take the full load, such as compounds.

For my part, I also want to ensure an even progression of strength throughout my body. The way I choose to do this, as I believe it is best, is to monitor and increase the strength of each muscle as 1) an individual unit that 2)works as part of a whole, so I train it on both levels.

And as for the supposed claim that the article infers that oly lifts are not better than glute isolation, you have to take the article and its statements within the right context.

In the article, he's talking not about using glutes as a part of a whole and complete unit (the body, posterior chain, etc.), but rather about the strengthening of the glutes that is often neglected and not as effectively achieved (in the sense of maximum activation) by oly lifts. He's focused on what one could conclude is beneficial to a well-proportioned body that would contributed to higher compound potential.

Perhaps I did not say this or make it evident, but by the mere fact that I use BOTH isolation and compound is evidence that I see value in both, and if it REALLY came down to it, sure, I'd pick the compounds.

There is no absolute reason for me, however, to pick one over the other; hence my both and stance.

Anyway, thank you all for your participation in this discussion.

Traction and power,
David

[Mr.WWII]

haha, I've been doing glute bridges and thrusts for almost 2 months now for lower back physical therapy, and I didn't even know it. Guess it's more beneficial than I thought