Topic: Helpful supplements for weightlifting

[Tsingle93]

Hey APK, I'm trying to gain a little bit of weight(muscle mass), and I have been eating pretty well for about a month now. I work out at LA Fitness around 2-4 times a week and on the most of the days I don't work out I'll go for a run or play some tennis. Anyway, getting to the point now that you have some background on me, I was wondering what the opinions are about some of the pre-workout supplements that will help me gain muscle mass. Currently I take a scoop of protein w/ 8oz milk pre and post workout, but I've been considering and looking into some pre-workout stuff. I don't want to spend too much money but yeah if nyone has tried or has information about such stuff I'd appreciate it. I'm mainly considering stuff that gets you a little more pumped up and possibly allows me to lift more energetically and whatnot. If you don't know what I'm looking for or talking about, check out <<THIS IS NOT A PLACE FOR YOUR ENDORSEMENTS!>>

Thanks.

EDIT by Chris:  We aren't here to promote that site.

[Chris Salvato]

Before you start looking at supplements for muscle mass gains, you should examine your workout routine AND diet.  What does your workout currently consist of?  How many calories are you eating?  What sort of foods would I find in a typical day if I ate with you.

[Tsingle93]

Alright. Thanks for such a quick response. Sorry for the site thing, I just wanted ppl to see like the kind of supplements I was considering didnt know that was wrong. Anyways, as far as diet, I've been thinking about trying to count my calories and all that and see what it adds up to but considering the foods I eat and the quantities it seemed a little tough. I generally just try to eat healthy food and balance my carbs protein and fat in each meal, although I haven't yet looked into a comparison of how many grams of each I should have. Yesterday would be my typical day of diet, heres what I eat
Breakfast: 3 scrambled eggs with two slices of cheddar cheese on top.
an approximate half-cup of assorted nuts(almonds, pecans, walnuts, sunflower seeds)
1 banana
1 glass of water

Lunch: salad including about 2 cups spinach, 1 slice of ham, a half cup grapes.
half an apple
half cup of carrots
2tbsp peanut butter
1bottle water
1/4 cup almonds

Dinner: pre-made asian salad including grilled chicken chunks, wontons, some dressing, spinach.
a slice of turkey
a glass of water

Before dinner after lunch I also ate after school probably 1cup fruit, some peanut butter, and nuts.
Had whey protein/milk shake before workout
Had whey protein/milk shake after workout

[Tsingle93]

I used to follow a chest/tri day, back/biceps day, legs/shoulders day workout with my friend like last year, then this summer did a chest workout/arms workout/shoulders workout/occasional leg workout routine with my brother. Now I go with neither of them to the gym I go with a different friend, and lately I've really gotten interested in nutrition, physiology, biology, and the science behind different workouts(mostly inspired by this forum and a lot of your and Steven Low's posts), and I've been looking up a lot of information about those subjects in my spare time, so I decided to try making my own workouts. I've only completed workouts 1 and 3 on sunday and monday, but I intend to cycle through these workouts, doing each one time per week and adjusting my workout to keep it challenging and as I find out what works and what doesnt, what takes too long whats too easy etc. nyway here they are sorry all my sentences are like a paragraph long.

Workout #1- Chest/Triceps Workout
LA Fitness Version:
Warm up:
 10minutes on bike or basketball
Chest:
2x 12 dumbbell press regular 1st set, inside 2nd set
10 diamond clap pushups
2x 5 bench press 135lbs
1x 12 inside bench press 110lbs
20 pushups
1x 12 outside bench press 110lbs
3x 12 decline or incline bench press 100lbs
10 pseudo-planche pushups
3x 12 incline or decline dumbbell press 35lbs
Triceps:
1x 12 rope pull-downs 80lbs
15 bench dips
1x 12 rope pull-downs 80lbs
15 bench dips
1x 12 rope pull-downs 80lbs
15 bench dips
2x 15 dips(good form)
15 pushups on ball
Abs:
75 air crunches
25 elbow-to-knee crunches each side

Workout #1.1- Chest/Triceps At Home Workout(replacement)
Warm Up:
APK Warm-up
Chest:
7 right-handed pushups
7 left-handed pushups
5x 10 diamond clap pushups-20 seconds rest
20 pseudo-planche pushups
30 wide pushups
Triceps:
10x 10 dips-20 seconds rest
Abs:
75 air crunches
25 elbow-to-knee crunches each side

Workout #2- LA Fitness Isometric/Shoulders/Swimming Workout
Warm-up:
5 Minute Treadmill
Isometric work:
60seconds Tuck planche
Shoulders:
3x 12 35lbs dumbbell press
3x 20 35lbs shrugs interlinked with
3x 12 45lbs barbell press
2x 12/20 15lbs dumbbell shoulders exercises
2x 10 lat pulldowns
2x 20 assisted pull-ups
Abs:
2x 100 crunches
Swimming:
5x 50m swim
1minute rest
eggbeater with hands on head for 30sec
10second rest
eggbeater with hands on head for 30sec
30 second rest
3x 50m swim

Workout #2.1- Isometric/Shoulders/Swimming Workout At-home variation
Warm-up:
APK Warm-up
Isometric:
60seconds frog planche
60seconds tuck planche
Shoulders:
10 pull-ups
5 HSPU
12 pull-ups
7 HSPU
30seconds Wall Handstand
Abs:
2x 100 crunches
Swimming if Pool is available:
5x 50m swim
1minute rest
eggbeater with hands on head for 30sec
10second rest
eggbeater with hands on head for 30sec
30second rest
3x 50m swim
If no Pool, replace with 100 burpees over time

[Tsingle93]

LA Fitness Workout #3- Biceps/Legs/Front Lever/Abs Workout
Warm-up:
5minutes on bike or basketball
10 pushups
3 pull-ups
15 squats
Biceps:
2x 12 30lbs dumbbell curl
2x 12 50lbs barbell curl
2x dumbbell bisolator 21’s curls 20lbs
2x 20 assisted pull-ups
Legs:
2x calf lift up stairs
3x 12 leg lift
2x 10 leg press
3x 12 weighted squats
Abs:
5x 75 Air crunches

Workout #3.1- Biceps/Legs/Front Lever/Abs workout At-home variation
Warm-up:
APK warm-up
Or
Run a mile
Front Lever:
45seconds front lever
Biceps:
10x 7 Chin-Ups
Interlinked with
10x 30second rest
Legs:
4x Calf lift up stairs
2x 100 squats
Abs:
5x 75 Air crunches

and here are my goals I probly should've put this first sorry.
Goals of the Workout:
Muscle: Shoulders: Goal: 40 pullups: muscles targeted: lats, delts, triceps.
Muscle: Chest: Goal: Bench Press 200lbs: muscles targeted: Pecs, triceps
Muscle: Triceps: Goal: 30 dips: muscles targeted: triceps
Muscle: Biceps: Goal: Lift 45lbs each arm for 12reps of 2sets: muscles targeted: biceps
Muscle: Legs: Goal: 10 pistols good form each leg: muscles targeted: quads
Muscle: Abs: Goal: 200 good form air crunches: muscles targeted: abdominals
Running Goal: <6 minute mile time: muscles: cardio, legs
Swimming Goal: Maintain a steady pace for 30minutes, and an egg beater with chest above water and hands on head for 1minute: muscles worked: cardio, core, legs
Isometric Goals:
Straddle Planche 10seconds
Front Lever 60seconds

[Steven Low]

You should probably do Starting Strength.

IMO.

[Chris Salvato]

I don't know why you are targeting specific muscles?  What is the point of having a biceps goal?

your goals, otherwise, are pretty straight forward but your workout plan is very convoluted...

Why not restart your programming incorporating only what you want to get better at...no more then 4 movements a day at an absolute max...3 would be better for strength.

[Tsingle93]

You should probably do Starting Strength.

IMO.

yeah I should probably check that out thanks. I like to make my own workouts for fun because I am trying to understand some of the concepts of exercise physiology and incorporate that into my own workout routine, but a structured program might be pretty helpful.

I don't know why you are targeting specific muscles?  What is the point of having a biceps goal?

your goals, otherwise, are pretty straight forward but your workout plan is very convoluted...



Why not restart your programming incorporating only what you want to get better at...no more then 4 movements a day at an absolute max...3 would be better for strength.

I thought it would be preferred to have goals in most of the main muscle groups of the body so that I could improve strength and endurance in all of them at a steady rate, I assumed that it would be good to work all of my body. About the restarting my programming, that is probably a good suggestion, these workouts are kind of the first ones I made in an attempt to see what works and what I like and then try to improve them from there. I am a little confused when u say no more then 4 movements a day, do u mean when I go to the gym still only perform 4 or 3 movements? Also since this is my first time making my own workouts with a goal instead of doing other peoples workouts w/ them I thought that I should train muscular strength first, after reading steven's building your own workout routine several times, but I attempted a strength workout with mostly 3 sets of 5 and doing many different exercises and it took too long and I didn't find it challenging enough, though that could be easily remedied. So you are suggesting I work on only 4 different machines/exercises a day? Thanks for the responses btw guys

[Tsingle93]

I really appreciate the responses, you guys seem very knowledgeable about nutrition and exercise, so I have another question. My workouts above typically take 1hr 30min to 2hrs when I do them with just one other person, and especially when you say work only 4 movements, I'd like to know some of the basic things that work multiple muscles instead of just one. For example I know that bicep curls only work the biceps, and that Lat Pull-Downs work the lats and the biceps and the rhomboids I believe. If one of you could tell me some of the basic exercises that are very helpful and work multiple muscles. I know squats, bench press, and dead lifts, although I have never actually done deadlifts before, but yeah. Thanks again.

[Steven Low]

The main exercises are:

Deadlifts, Squat, Bench, overhead press, dips, pullups, somet type of horizontal rowing motion

For Parkour, you want A LOT of work with dips and pullups... and then strength work for the lower body.

[Tsingle93]

The main exercises are:

Deadlifts, Squat, Bench, overhead press, dips, pullups, somet type of horizontal rowing motion

For Parkour, you want A LOT of work with dips and pullups... and then strength work for the lower body.

Hmm k thanks. Are any of the main muscle groups left out of these exercises? For example do any of those work the biceps? I want to make sure that if I stick to mostly those exercises I don't neglect any muscles. Also what is a good ab exercise? I don't think crunches are the most effective ab workout and I find planks tend to work my forearms and lower back more than my abs. Appreciate it.

[Schuman]

Hey APK, I'm trying to gain a little bit of weight(muscle mass),

Just a quick tidbit about your diet. You don't seem to eat many carbs. Most of the ones you do eat are good carbs from fruit and thats great. A high protein/low-carb diet is good for maintaining/building muscle while burning fat. But taking in carbs in your earlier meals before your workout will help you gain muscle faster and increase your lifts. The only problem is: excess carb calories = fatness; so you have to be sure not to eat too many.

[Steven Low]

Just a quick tidbit about your diet. You don't seem to eat many carbs. Most of the ones you do eat are good carbs from fruit and thats great. A high protein/low-carb diet is good for maintaining/building muscle while burning fat. But taking in carbs in your earlier meals before your workout will help you gain muscle faster and increase your lifts. The only problem is: excess carb calories = fatness; so you have to be sure not to eat too many.

Increase in cals can come from anything... higher protein, carbs or fats. Doesn't have to be increases in only carbs.

[Tsingle93]

Increase in cals can come from anything... higher protein, carbs or fats. Doesn't have to be increases in only carbs.

So if I want to gain muscle mass my macronutrients dont have to be particularly balanced? I try to have some of each in my meals, but for instance at lunch I tend to have 3 kinds of fruit, only some nuts, and like a salad w/ meat which is more carbs then protein and fat. I'm not too worried about protein cuz I get it in at every meal and drink 1-2 protein shakes a day depending if I lift that day or not.

[Tsingle93]

The main exercises are:

Deadlifts, Squat, Bench, overhead press, dips, pullups, somet type of horizontal rowing motion

For Parkour, you want A LOT of work with dips and pullups... and then strength work for the lower body.

Today, my workout was:
Warm-up(basketball and some pushups)
3x5 squats 125lbs (I weigh about 125-128lbs)
3x5 bench press 145lbs
2x5 free motion fly 60lbs
3x5 Deadlift 115lbs
6 chinups - 4 pullups
2x10 100lbs abdominal machine

So do you think this is a better workout for me, since it should (I'm pretty sure) develop more of muscular strength and is mostly consists of the main compound exercises? I pushed myself in all of these exercises except I probably couldve deadlifted more, but it was my first time doing them so I wanted to emphasize proper form. I definitely felt the workout in my quads from the squats, but I'm not sure if it hit my chest or arms very hard at all even though I probably couldn'tve done more weight for the exercises for my arms/chest (other than pull-ups and chin-ups, I couldve done more but I just kind of added them on as an afterthought). It definitely took a lot less time than my usual workouts. So do you think this is a good replacement workout for the other 3 I had, since you guys seemed to disapprove pretty strongly of those? thanks

[Schuman]

Today, my workout was:
Warm-up(basketball and some pushups)
3x5 squats 125lbs (I weigh about 125-128lbs)
3x5 bench press 145lbs
2x5 free motion fly 60lbs
3x5 Deadlift 115lbs
6 chinups - 4 pullups
2x10 100lbs abdominal machine

First. Try going up in weight each set. Even if it just means adding 2.5lbs to each side of the bar. And don't go above 3x3 on real heavy deadlifts.
As for your workout, it seems to me that you did a very well-rounded routine. I perfer to focus on one area at a time(you kinda had that goin on in your previously posted workouts). My lifting routine generally goes like this:
Monday-legs
   Leg ext, leg curl, squat, lunges, leg press, straight-leg deadlift.
Wednesday-chest&triceps
   Bench (regular and incline), tricep ext, tricep pullover w/press, chest flys, dips,
Friday-Shoulders and back
   Chin-ups, bent over row, military press and/or dumbell press, lat and delt raises, shrugs
   

[Tsingle93]

And don't go above 3x3 on real heavy deadlifts.

Why?

As for your workout, it seems to me that you did a very well-rounded routine. I perfer to focus on one area at a time(you kinda had that goin on in your previously posted workouts).

Hmm well I heard a lot of stuff about full-body workouts being better because for example with a 3 day a week routine such as yours or mine your legs would have I think around 120 hours to recover(it would be 5 days till the next leg workout) and I thought that full-body workouts were supposed to be better because you only need 48 hours. Not completely sure about this, could Steve or Chris could you back this up/disprove it?

[Steven Low]

Full body is better for novices.

1x5 for DL is fine.

Routine looks like a modified SS.  Just do the regular SS. A/B routine. It's got it's own wiki which you should read. Just google Starting Strength

[Tsingle93]

Full body is better for novices.

1x5 for DL is fine.

Routine looks like a modified SS.  Just do the regular SS. A/B routine. It's got it's own wiki which you should read. Just google Starting Strength

Hmm well I've lifted for like a year or two so I'm not sure if I fit into the novice category. I consider myself at least a slightly above average lifter in at least above average shape for my age/weight(16/125) I max benched 165 last time I maxed like a month ago, I can probably max squat a similar amount, my max amount of pullups would be around 18-20. I don't pretend to be some awesome lifter or anything, and these stats obviously don't mean everything, just an example of about where my fitness level is. However, again, I'm not so sure if I'm a novice lifter when it comes to this program. After doing the modified Starting strength routine, I mean I felt it and all, I got a workout from it, but I feel like my biceps,legs/triceps/chest/shoulders,swimming workouts give me a better workout. I modified the starting strength A/B workouts because I didn't feel like the workout was long enough(although this does not necessarily determine the effectiveness of a workout at all), and I wanted to get a better workout. Were the additions of fly, pull-ups, and an ab workout somehow detrimental to the routine?
Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
3x5 Power Cleans
So anyways I'm going to the gym again with my friend tomorrow morning, should we try just the simple workout B with no pull-ups or anything do you think? I do not pretend to be near strong enough that this workout would not help me, or that I am at all better then the program, but I just don't particularly see why the additions of some ab work(I want to work on toning my six-pack), and perhaps pull-ups and what not would not be helpful. My friend is more of a beginning lifter than I am, but I think he felt that the alternating workouts were more thorough as well. Thanks for the replies, I look forward to seeing if you guys have anything to say on what workout I should do tomorrow morning, I'll prob leave about 10-ish. On a finishing note, I have decided to change my goals to accomplishments I want to attain/techniques, here they are.
Goals:
<6 minute mile time(I run separately from going to the gym so probably won't do much about this there)
1 Muscle-Up
30seconds free-standing handstand
200lb 1RM Bench Press
200lb 1RM Squat
Hold a 10second straddle planche

[Steven Low]

Add 1 or 2 sets of pullups to the end of the workouts.

You don't need abs work.. these lifts are enough for your core. But ifyou want do a couple sets.

You are a novice. Novice doesn't mean how long you have been lifting... novice = your strength level.

End of novice period is usually around 2x bodyweight squat and deadlift a bit above. Bench about 1.5x bodyweight or so.

Eat and lot, gain muscle, and watch your strength skyrocket.

Will help your PR/FR immensely.