Author Topic: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall  (Read 4689 times)

matcauthon12

  • Guest
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2009, 12:58:26 PM »

Offline David Jones

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1342
  • Karma: +26/-14
  • Representin the 215's finest... PhillyPK All Day.
    • View Profile
    • PkCali
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2009, 01:03:44 PM »
LOL.

Offline NateVD

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2009, 03:11:23 AM »
Daniel's skill level allows him to do what he does. Lets get real, a mentality can only do so much if your body is only just capable of performing certain movements.
That mentality works for him, because it's him.
"Just that outlook on life helps me to be more free myself."
That is what he has gained from parkour and its nice to see that he has that appreciation for movement.
He just wants people (partcularly practitioners) to realise that parkour can change your life in which ever was you see fit.

Taking his philosophy or outlook on parkour means you haven't found your way.
It has taken daniel quite some time to find his way (i think). He found happiness and God through parkour.
His earliest influence on life and movement came from that dude that did the wallfip (who was capoerista i got told).

Because of parkour, i want to join the army so i can "be strong, to be useful", as David Belle would say.
I read about him and his philosophy and it attracted me most.

Often, what you get taught first, stays with you the longest.

Now. Conditioning.

Teg conditions a whole heap as you can see from his vids. He is without doubt one of the stronger guys in the parkour community who trains to be efficient - nothing more, nothing less. He has some of the best training methods and if i were to train with anyone - it would be with Belle and/or him.

Daniel has the body of a conditioned man. Is that not obvious?
You cannot achieve that sort of mass through parkour.
His earliest conditioning was when he was a capoerista and that would've set his body up WELL for parkour.
He would've continued to condition until he found his way. derrr
The best guys condition early.

The only guy that is AMAZING and doesnt condition at all is Oleg.

Kinda tired now, will contribute more later.



Offline Shae Perkins

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1418
  • Karma: +75/-18
  • Texas tough
    • View Profile
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2009, 07:37:52 AM »
Where did you hear Oleg doesn't condition? That's makes him all the more impressive!
This post was based off of my personal gatherings. Enjoy:)

Offline Anthony Ruiz

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
    • Youtube account
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2009, 02:37:57 PM »
Since there is always gonna be an opposing opinion, I Believe that through life you shouldnt have to do a regemin daily with a perfect eating and schedules the whole time. If we all did that wouldnt parkour become more of a job then something that makes you happy. Unless relentlessly working out and conditioning is what makes you happy. For me I go out and do what makes me happy and thats just going out and teaching those who are interested in what im doing and enjoying the time I have when I can train. To each his own.
There is no reason to have a plan B, cause all it does is distract from plan A

Offline NateVD

  • Oryctolagus Cuniculus
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2009, 04:44:11 PM »
Where did you hear Oleg doesn't condition? That's makes him all the more impressive!

pure speculation. just look at his body compared to daniels.
Oleg has no muscular definition whatsoever.
He probably does condition since his injury - i dunno, im just putting that out there.

Offline AN D

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 258
  • Karma: +19/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2009, 07:58:37 PM »
Not to be rude, but just saying things as if they are facts, when they are only based on speculation really doesn't help anyone. You have no evidence at all that he does not condition so why just make up some fact that he doesn't? I am not trying to be mean, I'm just saying....

Offline Brett Robert

  • EAF!
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1256
  • Karma: +139/-15
  • It's ok to LOL about things that are srsbsnss.
    • View Profile
    • San Francisco Parkour
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2009, 11:00:14 PM »
Since there is always gonna be an opposing opinion, I Believe that through life you shouldnt have to do a regemin daily with a perfect eating and schedules the whole time. If we all did that wouldnt parkour become more of a job then something that makes you happy. Unless relentlessly working out and conditioning is what makes you happy.

Relentless working out does make a lot of us happy.  Applying the principles of improvement, curiosity and progression that are so beneficial in parkour to other areas of life or aspects of training is very fulfilling as well.  Due to my discovery of this, I've deepened my understanding of exercise, nutrition and movement.

For me I go out and do what makes me happy and thats just going out and teaching those who are interested in what im doing and enjoying the time I have when I can train. To each his own.

Personal preference (i.e. "to each his own") is completely valid.  However, we can recognize that and insist on seeking factual information.  So saying "I like to do x" is great, but saying "x is better than y" isn't true unless you can prove it.  In this forum a lot of people work really hard to answer those questions about what is "better" and in which contexts that is true.  Because that search makes us happy, we insist statements that make claims (i.e. "x is better than y") should be backed up by good evidence, ideally by multiple peer-reviewed scientific studies as well as anecdotal evidence.

I'm with Rafe: Danny is inspiring and I want to believe in a lot of what he says, but it's not all absolutely correct.  There's nothing wrong with beliefs and if his (Daniel Illabaca's) buoy your spirits, like they did mine, then that's great.

Offline Rafe

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 752
  • Karma: +48/-5
    • View Profile
    • Natural Athletics
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2009, 01:08:26 AM »
Since there is always gonna be an opposing opinion, I Believe that through life you shouldnt have to do a regemin daily with a perfect eating and schedules the whole time. If we all did that wouldnt parkour become more of a job then something that makes you happy. Unless relentlessly working out and conditioning is what makes you happy.

Look if you want to be good at something you have to do hard stuff, you have to do stuff that is not fun, that does not make you happy when you do it only after thats reality. To quote david Belle "train while crying and you will win while laughing." Its through hard work through diligent practice that we progress and progression and growth are the keys to long term happiness and self worth

Let take an an imaginary beginner athlete call him joe average, Joe average is 18 he is 5"10 and weighs 150 pounds, he is 18 percent bodyfat, has an 18 inch vertical jump and 7 foot broad jump, he can squat 95 pounds, do one pull up and bench press 75 pounds. He has inhibited glutes and hamstrings, his knee collapse medially, and he rounds his back when he squats or lands.

He tries out a couple sports because his freinds are into them one is parkour, one is weightraining.

He goes out to do some parkour, he runs a little bit speed if fun but nobody pushes him to run to the point he actually gets tired so its fun, he takes a drop he didn't think he could do doesn't feel any pain has huge rush of adrenaline and thinks wow this is fun.

He goes and tries weightlifting, trying to figure out how do all the techniques is hard his body isn't mobile enough to get in the right positions, its tedious when he finally gets to some descent weight its really hard he sweats allot he can't keep the theory straight about reps or sets or what he is trying to achieve.

So lets assume option one he is like most lazy people and decides to just do parkour cause it makes him happy, he avoids any hard or smart training cause you know thats not easy and doesn't make him happy.  In two years he is still 150 though he is down to 15 percent bodyfat, his knee's still collapse medially, he still rounds his back, his glutes and hams are still inhibited. The small amount of extra muscle and some neurological gains allow him to now do 10 pull ups, he could probably bench press 150 pounds now, and he could do a pistol on either leg except he has Knee pain. His vert is 22 inches and he can broad jump 8 feet.  Like most deconditioned kids who try to do a high impact activity on concrete with no strength training he has bad patello femoral syndrome, he has back pain from rounded back landings, and he has sprained his ankle and broke his collar bone from bad landings and trips. He will never come close to being a good athlete on the path he is on and is mostly giving up on parkour because of his bad knee's he figures its just bad genes.

Assume he takes option two, in 6 weeks he fixes his biomechanical errors, adds 100 pounds to his squat, 4 inches to his vertical leap,  a half a foot to his broad jump, 50 pounds to his bench press, and 9 reps on pull ups and 15 pounds of lean body mass while losing 3 percent bodyfat. After two years he weighs 185 pounds at 12 percent body fat he squats 315, benches 225, can do a pull ups with 70 extra pounds, and has vertical leap of 28 ich and standing broad jump of 9 feet. He doesn't know how to vault, underbar or climb but he is in the physical condition to quickly learn any sport quickly. He has also never suffered more then minor groin pull and a sore back from training.

Which do you think is happier about his training. The guy who is still weak and now injured who has some cool skills that he could do if he wasn't in pain or the guy who is strong, healthy and easily ready to pick up any sport people challenge him with.

This is generalized story but its absolutely based on the reality of working with both groups of athletes in depth for the last 3 years. I see guys with two years of solid lifting training  and they are damn good athletes who are healthy and strong, guys who have trained parkour for 2 years with no strength training are biomechanical messes with chronic and acute injury problems who are still weak and skinny.

Take your pick short term ease and happiness at what cost or long term growth and progress.


I shall not fear, fear is the mind killer the little death that precedes total obliteration

I will face my fear, I will let it pass over and through me and were it is gone, I will turn the inner eye and see its path, and only I will remain.

Offline David Jones

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1342
  • Karma: +26/-14
  • Representin the 215's finest... PhillyPK All Day.
    • View Profile
    • PkCali
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2009, 06:49:35 AM »
Rafe, that was awesome ;)

Offline Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2109
  • Karma: +72/-35
    • View Profile
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2009, 08:04:00 AM »
dahaha rafe for president?
"Be like water making its way through cracks.  Do not be assertive,  but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it." - Bruce Lee

"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy." -Mark Rippetoe

Offline Anthony Ruiz

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
    • Youtube account
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2009, 09:31:48 AM »
well a workout regimen doesnt need to be done in the gym, I have never set foot in a gym but through self training while using movement I have gained leaps of strength from where I started. Before parkour and doing what makes me happy, I was 155 could do 6 pull ups, never thought i could ever do a muscle up, 15 pushups, and 25 sit ups and I would be dead, I could not do a climb up or even a hand stand. From just goin out and moving and using my body in different ways, I am now 170 can do 20 pullups 7 muscle ups, 50+ pushups and 100+ sit ups, I have a 9 foot broad jump havent checked my vert. and my most severe injury was in my achilles tenden pull. not saying I dont do certain conditioning but you dont need to make your life into a workout regimen and forget to live your life.
There is no reason to have a plan B, cause all it does is distract from plan A

Offline Dave Grimes

  • Guenons
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Karma: +11/-1
    • View Profile
    • http://www.davegrimes.com/
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2009, 09:34:00 AM »
wow, agreed.

Offline Adam McC

  • Delicious
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2369
  • Karma: +201/-43
  • Level 1 Sexability Certified
    • View Profile
    • Lehigh Valley Parkour
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2009, 09:41:30 AM »
Or maybe, Parkour is an individual path for individual people, and they are free to select their own path. But, they are also expected to accept the responsibilities and consequences of the path chosen by their freedom, whether that be injuries, or whether that be sacrificing time and a full time job or a busy social life.

Parkour is your path, just realize there are responsibilities no matter which path you choose. As can can see with Rafe's post, and then Anthony, there's no universal truth here. You know you best. Use some reason to figure out whats best for you, just do it with responsibility, that's all I ask.

•Lehigh Valley Parkour Community Founder
•Level 1 A.D.A.P.T. Certified
•Urban Current Member

Offline Andy Keller

  • Oh baby.
  • Administrator
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 2132
  • Karma: +9005/-9006
  • Lancaster, PA
    • View Profile
    • My Facebook
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2009, 10:43:11 AM »
Or maybe, Parkour is an individual path for individual people, and they are free to select their own path. But, they are also expected to accept the responsibilities and consequences of the path chosen by their freedom, whether that be injuries, or whether that be sacrificing time and a full time job or a busy social life.

Parkour is your path, just realize there are responsibilities no matter which path you choose. As can can see with Rafe's post, and then Anthony, there's no universal truth here. You know you best. Use some reason to figure out whats best for you, just do it with responsibility, that's all I ask.

Great way to put it.

I agree completely.
"Do it, do it well, do it well and fast."

Offline Rafe

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 752
  • Karma: +48/-5
    • View Profile
    • Natural Athletics
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2009, 12:42:42 PM »
well a workout regimen doesnt need to be done in the gym, I have never set foot in a gym but through self training while using movement I have gained leaps of strength from where I started. Before parkour and doing what makes me happy, I was 155 could do 6 pull ups, never thought i could ever do a muscle up, 15 pushups, and 25 sit ups and I would be dead, I could not do a climb up or even a hand stand. From just goin out and moving and using my body in different ways, I am now 170 can do 20 pullups 7 muscle ups, 50+ pushups and 100+ sit ups, I have a 9 foot broad jump havent checked my vert. and my most severe injury was in my achilles tenden pull. not saying I dont do certain conditioning but you dont need to make your life into a workout regimen and forget to live your life.

Your taking about your progress as an individual and I am taking about the reality of having met hundreds of traceurs and seeing what kind of progress they make with out strength and conditioning training. People are given different hands genetically I have meet guys who are very strong, very athletic who can train inconsistently and do no strength training but who continue to progress easily. Thats great for them their lucky Ilabaca is guy like that it doesn't mean he wouldn't be stronger with a smart approach to training. The problem is the exception doesn't make the rule if 9 out of 10 guys who just train parkour don't gain significant strength and end up with knee problems there is a problem even if the 10 guy is super human.

You can design lots of ways to build strength the gym is not necessary(though very usefull), the principal of progressive overload is, combined with biomechanical sound movements. The easiest and most effective way for most people to build strength is with barbells thats why elite athletes across the majority of most sports use barbells as their primary training outside of their sport. You can ignore reality because you don't like it you can say its all down to your individual path but the problem is even if your lucky enough to survive parkour without proper strength training your going to be misleading people who are less lucky. Thats what I have problem with. Everytime I meet another weak skinny traceur with bad knees and history of stupid injuries it upsets me cause the solution is so obvious but so much of community is simple unwilling to accept it.
I shall not fear, fear is the mind killer the little death that precedes total obliteration

I will face my fear, I will let it pass over and through me and were it is gone, I will turn the inner eye and see its path, and only I will remain.

Offline Anthony Ruiz

  • Mangabey
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
    • Youtube account
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2009, 01:08:11 PM »
If parkour has caused someone injury it is their own responsibility to fix their problems, or deal with their consequences, if they are weak they can choose to fix it or ignore it, you dont need to be built to be conditioned, if you stay within your limits and know yourself, you wont have chronic pains and problems. I am well defined and I feel no pain yet... I know that in the future there could be things that come up but im at a year now and still no pains, I believe firmly that the way I train works for me and we should all choose our own way like adam said.

If your body feels good with what you are doing, no one should tell you that your way is wrong, and that we should all train like (your role models name). we just need to know what works best for our selves. whether that be our philosophy, state of mind, or work out regimen.
There is no reason to have a plan B, cause all it does is distract from plan A

Offline David Jones

  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1342
  • Karma: +26/-14
  • Representin the 215's finest... PhillyPK All Day.
    • View Profile
    • PkCali
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2009, 02:24:56 PM »
For the lucky traceurs that manage to progress steadily without strength training and such, just imagine if they did condition ;)

No matter what, proper strength training/conditioning will do nothing but improve how you perform.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 07:23:08 PM by David Jones »

Offline Brett Robert

  • EAF!
  • Hirundo Rustica
  • *****
  • Posts: 1256
  • Karma: +139/-15
  • It's ok to LOL about things that are srsbsnss.
    • View Profile
    • San Francisco Parkour
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2009, 06:19:13 PM »
If your body feels good with what you are doing, no one should tell you that your way is wrong, and that we should all train like (your role models name). we just need to know what works best for our selves. whether that be our philosophy, state of mind, or work out regimen.

Anthony, I think you're arguing from your personal perspective, whereas Rafe is basing his argument on the anecdotal experience of hundreds of traceurs, as well as scientific studies and the principles of anatomy and exercise physiology.  You might want to check out this article. 

There is plenty of good, scientific evidence to back up what Rafe is claiming.  Your personal experience is evidence to back you up, but it's un-corroborated.  The APK community really, really, really values promoting good information on exercise, safety, anatomy and physiology.  Do some reading, do some research, if you still feel the same as you do now bring us some evidence (beyond your own personal experience) to back it up.

Offline Sylvia M.

  • Guenons
  • **
  • Posts: 54
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Las Vegas Parkour (LVPK)
    • View Profile
    • Las Vegas Parkour
Re: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2009, 12:46:47 PM »
Wow, Rafe thanks for sharing your experience with us. Never really thought much about the separation between the two (talent and smart training).

About the video, it was Very inspirational and its amazing how parkour can help one with personal growth. It is afterall, just movement... I can see how teg and others have opposing views about Illabaca's advice of "choosing not to fall". As others have stated already, this can give the wrong message to newcomers and may interpret it as a reason to wrecklessly try things. However, I think Illabaca has reached such a high level of training, physically and mentally, and through experience may have realized that he is physically capable of achieving anything, it's all in the mind. 
Training is not about instant gratification. Anyone looking for constant progress will not stick with training for long. The essence of training is the experience of the training, and what you learn about yourself through it.

www.lasvegasparkour.com