Topic: Ilabaca: Choose not to Fall

[Rafe]

BTW personally I loved the video the movement was incredible the words were inspirational if you look deeply at them I don't think there is allot there or its particular valuable lesson but it makes you feel good and like training and that is good enough for most people.

[David Jones]

+1 Rafe.

   I have a lot of respect for both Traceurs, but I really do agree with what Teg says. The idea of having the option to fall or not, isn't very realistic. There are so many variables outside of your control that it's nearly impossible to be able to have a choice. 

   Like Rafe said, what works for Daniel Ilabaca is not going to work for everyone else. But now there is a huge flock of people who try to practice what he says and does, and in my opinion that is not good. I guarantee you that some people are going to hurt themselves with this method of training. I feel bad for Danny, because he doesn't have much control over the fact that many people listen to him with so high of regard, and some will follow every single word and action of his.

   Does he want this? In no way at all. As far as I know, he's stated that it upsets him when people do this at jams, wait for his every single move, and states that he is no different than any other Traceur, and there is nothing extraordinary about him. Recently I heard something about Danny telling a few Traceurs to stop clapping after he did a certain movement, not sure whether it had to with the whole equality thing or whether the clapping was going to make it harder to perform the movement a second time.

   Link to the interview where he's says something to the extent of what I just wrote above: http://www.misterparkour.com/exclusive-interview-with-daniel-ilabaca/

   What I find the problem to be with how Ilabaca thinks is that he has progressed to this point after how many years? This 'moment of realization' isn't something that happens instantly. All of his experiences in Parkour and have led up to this point, there is no doubt in my mind about that. It takes time, and many inexperienced traceurs do not realize that, and will flock to what he says because he is Daniel Ilabaca, along with the fact that it supports how many inexperienced Traceurs practice Parkour; Not spending any time strength training and conditioning, and solely working on technique.... Which ties into this thread on 3Run: http://www.3run.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20438

   Simply put, the way Ilabaca trains works amazing for him; He's found his way. With that said, we all have to find our own way, whether it becomes similar or not to Ilabaca's method and practice. Get out there and practice Parkour, you'll find your way soon enough.

~David

[Sam Zytka]

just curious, how exactly does he train

[David Jones]

First off, he doesn't condition, or doesn't focus on it now at least. That's fine for him, he has built himself up for Parkour. Take someone who is fairly new, they are going to get screwed up. Same goes for the mindset. A lot of newcomers will see this video as a means for justification to do whatever the hell they want.

My main point is that you can't instantly get involved in Parkour, not condition, and have this type of 'I choose not to fall' mindset. It simply won't work. Things like this cannot be forced; It comes naturally after time.

~David

P.S: I have nothing against Daniel Ilabaca at all, if anyone got that vibe from my posts (I can't imagine that happening, but you never know). I think he's a great guy, and a great traceur. Would love to train with him some day

[Sam Zytka]

thanks and by the way i didnt get that vibe at all

[Anthony Ruiz]

no one is saying hang on to his everyword as if it were religion but he doesnt slander others views he was talking about his point of view in parkour. my point of view is different and will always be different but in the core sense I feel the same as he does. no ones point of view can be wrong, thats why they call it their point of view, if someone wants to make their idea or parkour a competetion all the more power to them, if they want it to be a growing experience and a way to better themselves more power to them, if they want to do it to become healthier and just do it part time and not live by it all the more power to them.

Who are we to tell people how to think. If danny thinks that limited conditioning and the belief that falling is a choice of fear all the power to him, but why should one talk down on that.... or tell people that, that is wrong.

I do as well believe that choosing to fall is a choice, based on confidence, besides the variable of the wall or rail breaking on percision or lack of concentration but if you focused the only reason you would fall is because you were focused on your fear causing you to not be as precise as you would if you were in the momnet 100% with confidence and no fear of what you were doing.

[David Jones]

 Daniel is not wrong in any way what so ever to come to his own conclusion about choice and conditioning, etc, etc. No one is wrong to come to the conclusion on their own that they are in complete control of whether they fall or not, and that they don't need to condition after so many years of practicing.

No one is saying, but people are doing.

What I'm arguing is that a lot of Traceurs are trying to practice the way he practices, without the years of training, various different ways, different to how he practices now with the mindset he has now (The choosing not to fall, etc. etc.)

Many experienced Traceurs will agree with me, that a body that is not conditioned will suffer from Parkour.

Gotta go, will update later.

~David

[bigninjapimp]

Awesome post david! I completely agree with everything you said. Find your own way.

[David Jones]

Yeah more like an essay, that was a lot of writing haha. At least I've accomplished something at school!
I'm just stressing that it's important that everyone finds their own way. And the man himself, Daniel Ilabaca would agree with that.

[Rafe]

No ones point of view can be wrong, thats why they call it their point of view, if someone wants to make their idea or parkour a competetion all the more power to them, if they want it to be a growing experience and a way to better themselves more power to them, if they want to do it to become healthier and just do it part time and not live by it all the more power to them.

Who are we to tell people how to think. If danny thinks that limited conditioning and the belief that falling is a choice of fear all the power to him, but why should one talk down on that.... or tell people that, that is wrong.

Your making a fallacious argument based on to premises you baldly assert with no real logic behind them. Saying this is point of veiw is not meaningfull statement thats just one of way you could describe a thesis or argument which of course can be wrong.

I could say my point of veiw is that 1+2 is 5 but its still wrong.

Ilabaca has amazing talent and has pushed himself mentally to be able to conquer amazing things, part of that is how he trains and how he thinks and that may or may not work for the next person.

However how he trains physically is absolutely not the most effective way for people to train and that would include him as well. He is ridiculously good not because his training is so good but because he is genetically gifted.

The best athletes in every major sport do extensive strength and conditioning training in addition to their skill training, this is simply because sport training in almost all sports does not optimally develop all the physical qualities necessary for this sport. Danny is an amazing athlete by parkour standards but there are thousands of guys in football, basketball, gymnastics and track who are stronger, faster, and more powerful, training like they do and developing those same qualities will not only help anyones parkour but also help prevent injuries.
As parkour grows your going to see more and more of the best athletes doing it the same way the fact that the best guys in parkour right now mostly don't come from that background is simply because there is a way, way bigger talent pool of people training stupidly then there is of traceurs who train intelligently.

His point of veiw on training is wrong it is contrary to fact, his personal philosophy of parkour may help him do amazing things and more power to him, it may inspire you or the next guy and if so great it is not logically coherent and to some of us that is important.

[Ryan Thill]

I watched teg's videos, He is nothing above a general practicioner, his words dont need to be respected he just speaks out of jealousy it would seem, Im not impressed with him as a person or as a traceur. Think is that the kind of attitude or person you would want representing us as a community. personally I would rather have someone like illabaca represent us. Amazing traceur and person, hes humble and wants to help. not ridicule..... just think about it.

Honestly, I'm leaning more towards Teg's side of the argument, but everything I would have said has been said by others already so I won't bore you with typing my whole opinion out.  Whether or not you agree with Teg's point of view and whether or not you respect him as a person, though, you have to admit that he's definitely a very talented traceur.

[Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!]

Ilabaca has amazing talent and has pushed himself mentally to be able to conquer amazing things, part of that is how he trains and how he thinks and that may or may not work for the next person.

However how he trains physically is absolutely not the most effective way for people to train and that would include him as well. He is ridiculously good not because his training is so good but because he is genetically gifted.

The best athletes in every major sport do extensive strength and conditioning training in addition to their skill training, this is simply because sport training in almost all sports does not optimally develop all the physical qualities necessary for this sport. Danny is an amazing athlete by parkour standards but there are thousands of guys in football, basketball, gymnastics and track who are stronger, faster, and more powerful, training like they do and developing those same qualities will not only help anyones parkour but also help prevent injuries.
As parkour grows your going to see more and more of the best athletes doing it the same way the fact that the best guys in parkour right now mostly don't come from that background is simply because there is a way, way bigger talent pool of people training stupidly then there is of traceurs who train intelligently.

His point of veiw on training is wrong it is contrary to fact, his personal philosophy of parkour may help him do amazing things and more power to him, it may inspire you or the next guy and if so great it is not logically coherent and to some of us that is important.

bingo! you should post this on the youtube comments

[Alec Furtado]

Your making a fallacious argument based on to premises you baldly assert with no real logic behind them. Saying this is point of view is not meaningful statement thats just one of way you could describe a thesis or argument which of course can be wrong.

Haha thank you, Rafe. There's a difference between being open to new ideas and being indifferent to new ideas. They occur at different times in understanding (being open in the beginning and then making a decision to be indifferent about it, which is basically what happens). It's an odd thing that keeps appearing. You can actually decide what is really correct on a surprising number of topics.

[Cheshire Parkour]

This guy is my hero. hes so humble and so devoted to parkour, its awesome.

[Kyle M.]

I personally loved the video. I enjoy listening to what Daniel has to say and I respect him very much. I think what is to be learned from Teige's whole argument is that obviously we are all different and will never have the same view points. Everyone will come away from a situation with a different opinion and what may work for one person may not work for another. I personally believe in conditioning and I enjoy it as well. Daniel obviously feels differently and believes failure or success comes down to choice. That is his own personal philosophy and no one can take that away from him. I can relate this to a quote I had heard once not sure by who but it goes like this: "There are as many religions as there are people on the Earth." We can have opposing views but still respect the opinions of other, and thats what makes the world go round. I respect Teige too but I feel he went just a little to far.

[David Jones]

Found this on Daniel Ilabaca's youtube channel comments, but can't find the comment of who he was responding too:


"ChrisIlabaca (1 day ago) I wrote a reply message to Bobby a friend of mine.. This what came out! lol It based around the Choose not to fall video.

For me there is nothing wrong with conditioning if that's what you chose to do for the sake of, just choice lol but if you are conditioning to feel better, stronger, faster, happier then in my eyes it will take you a hell of a long time to get to where you want to be during your life time..Once you eventually get to where you want to be, you can only hold onto it for so long before your searching for that next best thing to keep you going. Happiness doesn't come from thinking ahead with intense and calculated steps.

Does that make sence ?? lol

God Bless
Daniel"

[Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!]

^ its great that it works for him, but for most other traceurs happiness also doesn't come from having screwed up knees ect.

[David Jones]

^ its great that it works for him, but for most other traceurs happiness also doesn't come from having screwed up knees ect.

Hey, your preaching to the choir, Chris I can't really post any more on this topic, I feel content with all that I have wrote... This is at least until I see some more opinions on this video from a couple specific people...

[JoryVigs]

regardless of everyones arguements...its still a great video that really makes you think about things. i have respect for dan. if he chooses not to condition and it works for him...then who are we to say that it wrong.... there are some other messages in the video..some i agree with and others that i dont agree with. but i still resecpt dan and would love to train with him one day.

[Daniel Arroyo]

WOW....