Topic: My take on conditioning

[NateVD]

A lot of you guys......seem to be conditioning quite a bit.

That's good and all but how much parkour/freerunning training are getting in?

When I first started parkour I conditioned a lot.
I got strong but it got to a point where I didn't see my parkour getting anywhere.

The my muscles knew how to pull up and dip - but not climb (this was last year).

So i ditched the whole conditioning thing and I've managed to get ripped and increase my strength, speed, power and endurance in my body by solely training parkour (i dont freerun).

I don't do all that silly PKgen stuff.
I don't train one movement at a time (with the exception of precisions).

Instead I train a whole sequence of movements so my body adapts to different types of impacts and is moved in as many different types of ways.
This way, training is fun, interesting and pretty much a guessing game.

That dangers are obvious.
Some of the time I don't know where I'm going and I have fallen/bailed heaps of times.
Another danger is that this shouldn't be done by beginners as it can lead to serious injury.

So yeah.

My training regime looks something like this.
95% parkour.
5% conditioning.
All that 5% consists of is 100 squats , consecutive muscle ups, planche stuff.

PS. I personally don't agree with how PKgen trains.

Please tell me how you train and gimme your thoughts on conditioning.

[Schuman]

lift 3 days a week, pk for 2

[Spencer B]

lift 3 days a week, pk for 2

Pretty much.

Except lift can be replaced by any intense strength training work pretty much.

[Rowe]

I train similarly to Nate. I used to lift, but found parkour to be much more effective, as long as I keep it varied. I have seen far better results than lifting. Granted, my lifting routine wasn't hardcore by any means and often erratic, but I get bored easily. Parkour is fun and a workout rolled into one. I do some conditioning, but usually to improve a movement. Otherwise, I don't see the point in wearing myself out with obsessive conditioning when I can practice movements and grow stronger at the same time.

[Steven Low]

A well structured routine will always be superior than to sports specific stuff for strength and condition.

But obviously you can't get away too much from the sports specific drills.

3/2 lift/PK seems to be a good mix. I'd probably go on a 4/2 if I could.

[NateVD]

lift 3 days a week, pk for 2

are you guys

A well structured routine will always be superior than to sports specific stuff for strength and condition.

But obviously you can't get away too much from the sports specific drills.

3/2 lift/PK seems to be a good mix. I'd probably go on a 4/2 if I could.

Pretty much.

Except lift can be replaced by any intense strength training work pretty much.

are you guys serious?
why lift more than you train parkour?
why even lift?
you're not preparing your body for parkour.

have you seen daniel ilabaca?
phil doyle?
dan aroyyo? (sorry if i spelt his name wrong).
they don't condition not nearly as much as you guys.

A well structured routine will always be superior than to sports specific stuff for strength and condition.

But obviously you can't get away too much from the sports specific drills.

3/2 lift/PK seems to be a good mix. I'd probably go on a 4/2 if I could.

i bet if you go a month without specific conditioning, and you CONDITION THROUGH THE MOVEMENT
your parkour would be far more efficient.

its actually quite startling to see you guys think that all this conditioning will help improve your condition substantially.
learn to train with urgency.
conditioning is overrated.

[Schuman]

 

its actually quite startling to see you guys think that all this conditioning will help improve your condition substantially.
learn to train with urgency.
conditioning is overrated.

Conditioning does improve your condition. Thats why its called conditioning. Also, conditioning will improve the quality of your training by increasing your strength and endurance.
Take martial arts for example. Conditioning, wether it be lifting or bodyweight exercises, is extremely vital to bettering performance.

[Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!]

ya this works for a while, but it will catch up to you and you will wish you were stronger.  for instance, your chest, hammies, and biceps are hardly used in parkour so they will eventually get weaker and that will cause all kinds of issues usually leading to tendonitis.   trust me i am having all kinds of issues with my legs right now because i train like you do.  as soon as i heal up im going to start lifting again.

[Chris Salvato]

ya this works for a while, but it will catch up to you and you will wish you were stronger.  for instance, your chest, hammies, and biceps are hardly used in parkour so they will eventually get weaker and that will cause all kinds of issues usually leading to tendonitis.   trust me i am having all kinds of issues with my legs right now because i train like you do.  as soon as i heal up im going to start lifting again.

Hammies are a huge part of PK - but most people are quad dominant and it leads to exacerbating the problem.  Anyway, yes, training that way does cause a lot of tendon problems.

Train PK as much as you want focusing on just skill training.  Trust me, if its not now, it will be soon, where you want to progress faster or hit a plateau.  When you reach that point, you will be back here for more advice on strength and conditioning.  Trust me.  I have seen this many times in my tenure on this board.

[Shae Perkins]

ya this works for a while, but it will catch up to you and you will wish you were stronger.  for instance, your chest, hammies, and biceps are hardly used in parkour so they will eventually get weaker and that will cause all kinds of issues usually leading to tendonitis.   trust me i am having all kinds of issues with my legs right now because i train like you do.  as soon as i heal up im going to start lifting again.

Who says that your chest, hammies, and biceps aren't utilized in Parkour?! The chest and biceps are probably used in every single vaulting and climbing motion. As for the hammies...well have you ever heard of jumping? How bout running?

Anyways, back to the OP.

Nate, I understand your concern, but trust me, later in your training, you are going to want that extra strength. While I do agree with you that a 3:2, or even a 4:2 lifting to PK ratio is a bit excessive... there is nothing wrong preparing your body for the impacts of Parkour.

Personally I'm with you on the conditioning through movement dealio you are talking about, I would say most of my strength comes from that style of training. And you know what, if you can manage that way of training ie seeing results and you're not getting hurt, then more power to you man:) I just can't personally get away with no conditioning *shrugs*

[Steven Low]

are you guys
are you guys serious?
why lift more than you train parkour?
why even lift?
you're not preparing your body for parkour.

have you seen daniel ilabaca?
phil doyle?
dan aroyyo? (sorry if i spelt his name wrong).
they don't condition not nearly as much as you guys.


i bet if you go a month without specific conditioning, and you CONDITION THROUGH THE MOVEMENT
your parkour would be far more efficient.

its actually quite startling to see you guys think that all this conditioning will help improve your condition substantially.
learn to train with urgency.
conditioning is overrated.

lol, whatever you say dude.

Don't come to me asking questions when you figure out you'll be weaker or are weaker than most people who strength train consistently.

[Chris Salvato]

have you seen daniel ilabaca?
phil doyle?
dan aroyyo? (sorry if i spelt his name wrong).
they don't condition not nearly as much as you guys.

BTW, its awesome that you identified 4 people out of thousands of traceurs.  Four people that have risen to the top without any serious conditioning.  Parkour is a new sport, so most people are not training ideally for the sport.  Those who are genetically inclined will rise to the top.  This is similar to BMX.  When it was new, people were just BMXing and winning all sorts of tourneys.  Then, all of a sudden, mediocre BMX'ers started squatting and competing with the big boys.  This is true of all sports.  I need to condition to be on the same level as these guys - so why hate on me for striving towards my goals?

[Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!]

Who says that your chest, hammies, and biceps aren't utilized in Parkour?! The chest and biceps are probably used in every single vaulting and climbing motion. As for the hammies...well have you ever heard of jumping? How bout running?

Anyways, back to the OP.

Nate, I understand your concern, but trust me, later in your training, you are going to want that extra strength. While I do agree with you that a 3:2, or even a 4:2 lifting to PK ratio is a bit excessive... there is nothing wrong preparing your body for the impacts of Parkour.

Personally I'm with you on the conditioning through movement dealio you are talking about, I would say most of my strength comes from that style of training. And you know what, if you can manage that way of training ie seeing results and you're not getting hurt, then more power to you man:) I just can't personally get away with no conditioning *shrugs*

well of course they are used.  but minor compared to quads, lats, traps, core, tries, ect.  if you look at the muscle structure of those guys he listed almost all of them have massive lats and shredded abs, but no chest and little arms. also im sure their quad strength is very unproportional to their hamstrings.  All of this can cause problems for us mortals, but these guys are fine because of their amazing genetics.

I think technical training is good, technical conditioning is even better, and strength training is great to strengthen anything the first two didn’t get.

[Chris Salvato]

well of course they are used.  but minor compared to quads, lats, traps, core, tries, ect.  if you look at the muscle structure of those guys he listed almost all of them have massive lats and shredded abs, but no chest and little arms. also im sure their quad strength is very unproportional to their hamstrings.  All of this can cause problems for us mortals, but these guys are fine because of their amazing genetics.

I think technical training is good, technical conditioning is even better, and strength training is great to strengthen anything the first two didn’t get.

To reiterate, your quads are NOT prime movers in running and jumping -- or at least they shouldn't be.  The quads are only prime movers when the glutes/hammies are inactivated from years of sitting, wearing shoes, heel-toe running and other pathologies.  The glutes/hammies are what you want to use to jump for maximal power/effort.  If you are not correcting your body's tendency to use the quads then you are setting yourself up for plateau'd performance and overuse injuries in the anterior aspect of the knee.

[Tom Coppola]

have you seen daniel ilabaca?
phil doyle?
dan aroyyo? (sorry if i spelt his name wrong).
they don't condition not nearly as much as you guys.

Daniel Arroyo, someone I've trained with quite a bit, has recently increased his strength conditioning program.  Why did he do this?...probably because he was reaching plateaus.  Before parkour he was an athlete in several sports including breakdancing, power lifting, and soccer, among others.  He's already done quite a bit of strength conditioning because of his background, which is why he was able to increase his technical ability so much in so little time.

conditioning is overrated.

Wow, really?  I was under the impression that conditioning is underrated among nearly every practitioner, hence the abundance of overuse injuries.

[Matthew Wang]

Daniel Arroyo, someone I've trained with quite a bit, has recently increased his strength conditioning program.  Why did he do this?...probably because he was reaching plateaus.  Before parkour he was an athlete in several sports including breakdancing, power lifting, and soccer, among others.  He's already done quite a bit of strength conditioning because of his background, which is why he was able to increase his technical ability so much in so little time.

Yeah man. His full planche is BEAAAAAASSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Hey guys, everyone has different opinions on things. There are facts and opinions.
Fact: Strength and conditioning may greatly improve your Parkour, and often does.
Opinion: Strength training is more important than the skill training aspect of Parkour, or vice versa.
Fact: An amazing parkour skill level can still be acheived with minimal conditioning.
Fact: Your chance's for injury are higher without proper conditioning
Opinion: Your stupid if you don't condition.

Just putting it out there guys. Just consider things from the other person's point of view for a minute and why they would think of what they're saying, instead of just throwing out retorts without a second thought.

[Chris Salvato]

Fact: Strength and conditioning may will greatly improve your Parkour, and often does.
Opinion: Strength training is more important than the skill training aspect of Parkour, or vice versa.
Fact: An amazing parkour skill level can still be acheived with minimal conditioning, for a small, genetically gifted population.
Fact: Your chance's for injury are higher without proper conditioning
Opinion: Your stupid if you don't condition.

I fixed your facts.

[NateVD]

ya this works for a while, but it will catch up to you and you will wish you were stronger.  for instance, your chest, hammies, and biceps are hardly used in parkour so they will eventually get weaker and that will cause all kinds of issues usually leading to tendonitis.   trust me i am having all kinds of issues with my legs right now because i train like you do.  as soon as i heal up im going to start lifting again.

biceps, hammies and chest? lets get serious man.
hhow long have you been training?
ive been training for 3 years now and have experienced more injuries due to athletics (which is why i quit) than i have in parkour.

lol, whatever you say dude.

Don't come to me asking questions when you figure out you'll be weaker or are weaker than most people who strength train consistently.

what?
if you got all this strength but your mind is weak then your parkour won't go anywhere.
why would i come to you?
my training sessions are plyometric.
i can do more muscle ups now than i use to when i used to condition.
im not weak - for some reason i can hold a front lever for like 6 or so seconds and i don't do anything isometric.

BTW, its awesome that you identified 4 people out of thousands of traceurs.  Four people that have risen to the top without any serious conditioning.  Parkour is a new sport, so most people are not training ideally for the sport.  Those who are genetically inclined will rise to the top.  This is similar to BMX.  When it was new, people were just BMXing and winning all sorts of tourneys.  Then, all of a sudden, mediocre BMX'ers started squatting and competing with the big boys.  This is true of all sports.  I need to condition to be on the same level as these guys - so why hate on me for striving towards my goals?

I just named them of the top of my head. They've just got the exposure they need to show the world what they're capable of.
There are soo many guys that i train with who could easily keep up with ilabaca and all them.
AND
why do you want to be on their level?
you're limiting yourself if you want to be at their level.
strive toward being the best you can possibly be and you'll be happier with where that takes you

Daniel Arroyo

I just realised he conditions.
my bad

conditioning just gives you that athletic potential.
it wont make your technique any better.

train correctly and your need for conditioning slowly decreases.

[Shae Perkins]

"conditioning just gives you that athletic potential.
it wont make your technique any better." -NateVD

Very true Nate.

I completely understand you argument. In fact I pretty much agree that majority of your power in running, jumping, climbing, whathaveyou should come from your actually skill training when you run, jump, climb, whathaveyou. Conditioning is lame. While I'm known as somewhat of a conditioning fanatic, I'll be the first to say that conditioning is indeed lame. I do not enjoy picking up heavy things and busting crazy push up and pull up variations, but I do it because-

1.) It has made me a more powerful traceur. I do not think I could be at the level of strength I am at as quickly, or hell, at all with out structured strength training.

2.) It keeps me safe. Not that I am one to take particularly nasty spills on a regular basis, but strength training has alleviated problems with shin splints, back problems, shoulder craziness, etc. There's no other way to look at it- extra muscle will help protect your body from all the fun impact we experience.

Anyways, I pretty much agree with you Nate: conditioning is for people who are raised to the second power (squares, hah!). I have also provided my case: you need condition or you will be raised to the second power (again, be a square) so just get over it.

But honestly, that isn't why I posted. I do not like your personal attacks directed at Chris Sa., Chris St., Steven, Schuman(?), etc. Everyone here is entitled to their opinion as long as as they can back it up and not insult others in the process. Don't do that anymore.

[Patrick Yang]

But honestly, that isn't why I posted. I do not like your personal attacks directed at Chris Sa., Chris St., Steven, Schuman(?), etc. Everyone here is entitled to their opinion as long as as they can back it up and not insult others in the process. Don't do that anymore.

Actually, I didn't see any personal attacks from NateVD.  I saw a lot of unsupported claims and attacks on their arguments from Nate, but no personal attacks.