Topic: A lightbulb flashes above Ryan's head

[cleversockpuppet]

Hey, my name is Ryan.  Big Ryan (always dark gray shirts, currently hobo beard, terribly sweaty).  Most of you probably know me.  I have always been a lurker, a watcher from the sidelines, so please bear with me.  You see, I have an idea.

I enjoy many aspects of parkour, but I often feel ill at ease (not because of anyone here...on the contrary, I have rarely felt as welcomed as I have with you folks).  I feel that way for two reasons; one, I am simply not capable of participating in some of the techniques; and two, learning and practicing and demonstrating the skills we learn isn't as interactive as I prefer.  Today, we played a fairly enjoyable game of parkour tag (which I found more engaging), and that got me to thinking...

At the end of our Crossfit Parkour Boot Camp, wouldn't it be nice if we could celebrate by all of us using our skills while playing together?  Of course, anyone else who wanted to join would be most welcome, but that might be a few too many people for tag.  But probably not too many for Capture the Flag.  Yes, Parkour Capture the Flag.  I think that would be awesome.

I expect most people know how to play (or can divine the intent of the game from the name itself) but I'll go ahead and give a quick breakdown.  There are two or more teams, typically evenly divided between offense and defense.  Each team has a flag they try to protect.  Each team attempts to take the other teams' flags and return them to their base.  Players can be taken out of play by tagging (a better idea here might be those flag belts they wear in flag football...I think it would work better for parkour...even if we can't get the belts, a simple kitchen towel, tucked in one's pants, should do).  In the version I expect will work best, both offense and defense can be taken out of play by removal of their flags, and the flag/base would probably be best in an elevated area (for more difficult parkouring).  If enough people want to play (and I mean, who wouldn't?) we could go up to four teams or maybe even do some sort of tournament thing.

The arena would have to be sufficiently large to be challenging, as well as containing many obstacles, so that the more skilled one is in parkour, the greater their chance of success.  From the photos I've seen of UH, it looks like it might be a good spot, though no doubt there are others/betters.  I am only a novice after all.  Wherever we choose, we would have to arrive early enough (or the day prior) for everyone to get a feel for the terrain and to learn where everything is.

It could be an all day thing, with a BBQ/picnic and other events/games.  Parkour Tag/Freeze Tag, maybe ultimate frisbee, volleyball, whatever.

Anyway, that's the idea.  I just thought it might be fun to have a more interactive experience.

[Stacie]

Sweet idea, dude! And nice name. XD

[Nos0323]

whoo i would join since i just got ungrounded from pk...but would be complicated....and its an awesome idea haha

[cleversockpuppet]

yes yes, I'm glad you like the idea.  I forgot to mention, there is still three weeks before our classes finish, so that should give us plenty of time to find the right spot and plot out a battlefield.

[turtlekarma]

would be hard on any uh campus...go natural or to public park...maybe i'll join in if i'm healed by then

[Sala]

We used to have things like these at the earlier jams[Extreme emphasis on early]
God they were fun, totally forgot about them though.


REVIVAL OF TEH PARKOUR GAMES FTW 

Lmao frozen in the middle of a Kong 

[Nos0323]

would be hard on any uh campus...go natural or to public park...maybe i'll join in if i'm healed by then

can go someplace like makiki park  xD  but anywere else will be hard for me to join and hang out.... i can only do UH, makiki park, or Roosevelt High School...idk if its just my school but after school people from other schools are allowed in without going to the office....go figure

[cleversockpuppet]

Wherever we pick should have enough obstacles to make a difference in terms of using parkour.  It would defeat the purpose if you could travel faster by just running around an obstacle, if that makes sense.  Ideally, there would be parts that are only crossable using parkour methods, or gain a significant advantage by using parkour.

[turtlekarma]

Wherever we pick should have enough obstacles to make a difference in terms of using parkour.  It would defeat the purpose if you could travel faster by just running around an obstacle, if that makes sense.  Ideally, there would be parts that are only crossable using parkour methods, or gain a significant advantage by using parkour.

ever actually try be efficient with pk?  pretty much only useful thing is climbing, jumping, rolling, balance...maybe a speed vault here and there....using actual pk movements in quick succession, landing them all perfectly, changing direction when needed, and keeping momentum up for any thing longer then three or four moves is difficult.  significant advantage over running around, probably not if only just getting done with a 6 week boot camp.  From what I've seen only the really good guys who've been training for years can use pk to improve speed from point a-b.  don't want to be negative about your idea, but maybe set your sights to something more like enjoy more in your environment as a playground...see more possibilities for movement...

[Gregg]

It depends how you train: Kaos had a series of efficiency videos, where he was working on cleaning up his flow between a series of moves. If you set up a 25-50m course, and kept trying to improve your speed, you might be able to drop time.

I don't think that's how most people train, tho. Even chasing little kids - I saw that my regular vaults were slow, inefficient.

[cleversockpuppet]

I'm not suggesting that we maintain perfect flow.  I doubt I could really even string two sets of movements together.  Maybe I miscommunicated my intent.  I just meant that given an area with sufficient obstacles, we would gain an advantage using parkour, even if the only parkour skills we used were vaults (which I am pretty confident most of our group can do, even if only a safety vault).  If there were a short wall across the center of a field with one opening in it, the vault gains all the time you would waste traveling to the opening.  On an inclined plane, you may gain some time using precisions or strides on the walls of a handicap ramp (similar to the type we encountered at Petrie, which most of us managed with little difficulty) or by sliding down a rail.  If you need to go up a level, some of us can climb up the wall (though not me), rather than finding a set of steps.

Maybe you're right and I have unreasonable expectations, but if we cannot incorporate what we're learning into something as simple as a child's game, how can we be expected to use these skills in a real situation?  And if we aren't expected to use these skills, what is the point in learning them at all?  I could easily be misunderstanding your point, and I apologize if that is the case.

If this helps, I looked around and found that CTF is not a unique idea; other parkour groups seem to have done it and enjoyed it, though perhaps their skill level was greater.  There is also this article: http://www.americanparkour.com/content/view/4904/378/ which I believe was linked on our front page at some point.  It has this to say:

In my own practice and the classes we teach we have found competition to be both fun, rewarding and immensely developmental of ability and understanding in what it truly effective. We do time trials through obstacle courses, run races, and play tag and capture the flag. All are forms of competition and all are in my opinion not only good parkour training but absolutely necessary.


Still, I understand if the consensus is that this is an impractical suggestion.  If that is the case, we still haven't ruled out Tag (which we played at Petrie as well, though I still maintain it might have been more entertaining with a second "it" person) or even a game like Follow the Leader.  I guess what I'm saying is, learning the skills in class and practicing one-offs at jams are fun, but I still feel there is a vital engagement that play brings that is as important as rote mastery.

[Gregg]

It would be a blast in a place with those big foam obstacles. [like Kokokahi?]

My problem: I don't have places like that - I have rocks, concrete, tractor tires, trees... and no other traceurs to try it with. The times I've done chase here [with Duke and Shiloh] we ended up sprinting on flat stuff [pavement, dirt, sand], and didn't really jump anything.

I've seen vid of people having a LOT of fun with PK tag and PDQ.

[Hazim Salem]

Sorry If I'm interrupting a board I'm not part of but...

So if Team A attempts to steal Team B's flag, does only ONE A member run and steal it, or does the whole Team A (or half of them) try to "protect" him as he runs for it?

Because if not, that means the flag runner has to negotiate the whole opposing team minus one. Which means each team has to be as little as possible.

[cleversockpuppet]

Technically, the entire team could attempt to get the flag, but only one person can carry it at a time.  Usually, only half the team is on the offensive and, yes, they could try to protect the person who managed to get the flag.  To win, you have to bring the other team's flag to your base while still retaining your own flag.  A flag can be recovered by removing the person that stole the flag from the game; once you tag them (or, in this case, remove that person's individual flag), you get to take your team flag back.  If you take the flag carrier out and then are taken out yourself, the person that took you out gets the flag and so on and so forth.  If two people simultaneously take each other out, the flag sits on the ground until claimed.

Some variations put a time limit on how long a person is out of the game.

[Hazim Salem]

Technically, the entire team could attempt to get the flag, but only one person can carry it at a time.  Usually, only half the team is on the offensive and, yes, they could try to protect the person who managed to get the flag.  To win, you have to bring the other team's flag to your base while still retaining your own flag.  A flag can be recovered by removing the person that stole the flag from the game; once you tag them (or, in this case, remove that person's individual flag), you get to take your team flag back.  If you take the flag carrier out and then are taken out yourself, the person that took you out gets the flag and so on and so forth.  If two people simultaneously take each other out, the flag sits on the ground until claimed.

Some variations put a time limit on how long a person is out of the game.

Oh, so the tagged people are removed temporarily? That's where I got lost. I was expecting some tackling or wrestling (or just blocking like in b-ball) to protect the flag runner. But as you said, the threat of being tagged again and removed will be enough to prevent the defender from recklessly jumping on the runner.

Good stuff thank you!

[Gregg]

At church, there are enough kids that they break into about 7 or 8 teams. Each team has a pool noodle duct taped into a circle. That's their flag. Each kid has a piece of plastic ribbon a couple feet long tucked thru a belt loop, or whatever.

I think they play for time - like 10 minutes, then reset. People who've been tagged [ribbon taken] are out until the next game. Flags can be captured, recaptured, whatever until time is up.

[turtlekarma]

It would be a blast in a place with those big foam obstacles. [like Kokokahi?]

My problem: I don't have places like that - I have rocks, concrete, tractor tires, trees... and no other traceurs to try it with. The times I've done chase here [with Duke and Shiloh] we ended up sprinting on flat stuff [pavement, dirt, sand], and didn't really jump anything.

I've seen vid of people having a LOT of fun with PK tag and PDQ.

kokokahi is out of commission....there's no instructor to run the open gym.

[turtlekarma]

I'm not suggesting that we maintain perfect flow.  I doubt I could really even string two sets of movements together.  Maybe I miscommunicated my intent.  I just meant that given an area with sufficient obstacles, we would gain an advantage using parkour, even if the only parkour skills we used were vaults (which I am pretty confident most of our group can do, even if only a safety vault).  If there were a short wall across the center of a field with one opening in it, the vault gains all the time you would waste traveling to the opening.  On an inclined plane, you may gain some time using precisions or strides on the walls of a handicap ramp (similar to the type we encountered at Petrie, which most of us managed with little difficulty) or by sliding down a rail.  If you need to go up a level, some of us can climb up the wall (though not me), rather than finding a set of steps.

Maybe you're right and I have unreasonable expectations, but if we cannot incorporate what we're learning into something as simple as a child's game, how can we be expected to use these skills in a real situation?  And if we aren't expected to use these skills, what is the point in learning them at all?  I could easily be misunderstanding your point, and I apologize if that is the case.

If this helps, I looked around and found that CTF is not a unique idea; other parkour groups seem to have done it and enjoyed it, though perhaps their skill level was greater.  There is also this article: http://www.americanparkour.com/content/view/4904/378/ which I believe was linked on our front page at some point.  It has this to say:

In my own practice and the classes we teach we have found competition to be both fun, rewarding and immensely developmental of ability and understanding in what it truly effective. We do time trials through obstacle courses, run races, and play tag and capture the flag. All are forms of competition and all are in my opinion not only good parkour training but absolutely necessary.


Still, I understand if the consensus is that this is an impractical suggestion.  If that is the case, we still haven't ruled out Tag (which we played at Petrie as well, though I still maintain it might have been more entertaining with a second "it" person) or even a game like Follow the Leader.  I guess what I'm saying is, learning the skills in class and practicing one-offs at jams are fun, but I still feel there is a vital engagement that play brings that is as important as rote mastery.

everything is harder to do at a sprint, pivoting and shifting momentum are extremely difficult when doing vaults...the way most people train them is in a straight line anyway.  if speed is all you're concerned with i wouldn't use moves until i've really mastered them.  playing games is good training method, but honestly incorporating lots of pk into a game where speed is a factor isn't easy for beginners.  i love playing, and it's a good way to improve you're skills...i think it's great you want to include play as a part of your training.  i'm just letting you know that from what ozzi told me about the bootcamp you're doing...the expectation of being able to use moves in any situation requiring speed is might come a bit later.  boot camp is an introduction to pk, looking at the basics and understanding philosophy (building a good fundation).  i just dont want you to be turned off from pk if at the end of boot camp your expectations aren't met.  you're a ryan, i'm just looking out for you man.  i'll drop in on thurs cf class, maybe can brain storm so other pk games can play as well as capture flag and tag?

[cleversockpuppet]

Ah, I see what you're saying now.  I'll admit, I have occasionally been caught with unreal expectations and I appreciate your looking out for that.  I have never been good at pacing myself...I typically want everything now or nothing, which isn't a very good philosophy.  All that aside, I would be happy to help come up with a more suitable game.