Author Topic: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING  (Read 2597 times)

Offline Poseyaaron

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PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« on: September 08, 2009, 07:07:35 AM »
The Paleo Diet while based on scientific facts and truths is hardly easy and downright impossible for most people to follow due to the high costs of fruit and vegatables. I dont agree that all starches are bad for you depending on what you get, the carbs from eating whole grains and other starches made of mostly complex carbohydrates are quite benificial to any diet especially one high in carbs there is also the fact that most of the people who carbo load burn them up like a raging inferno. just this summer I was on swim team and it felt like i was eaating a meal every 15 minuets...

Does this provide a good point?

Offline Steven Low

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 12:34:25 PM »
What exactly is your question?

Also, I do not agree that grains are healthy. Most of the people I know that have gone off grains (like 90-95%) have reported health and performance improvements in their sports/workouts/etc. If you would like more information about this check out Robb Wolf's site.
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Offline Dan Elric

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 02:55:21 PM »
The reason people eat so many simple carbs is because they are simple.  They digest quickly and have nothing to slow the absorption rate.  This leaves you to feel less full off of more.  Complex carbs take more time and thus make you feel more full off of less.
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Offline Patrick Yang

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2009, 05:08:40 PM »
The reason people eat so many simple carbs is because they are simple.  They digest quickly and have nothing to slow the absorption rate.  This leaves you to feel less full off of more.  Complex carbs take more time and thus make you feel more full off of less.

I think you're confusing "simple carbs" with "calorically dense carbs".  Simple carbohydrates are monosaccharides and disaccharides, commonly known as sugars like fructose, lactose, sucrose, glucose, galactose, and so forth.  Complex carbohydrates are long chains made of monosaccharides, and are commonly known as starches.  Many complex carbohydrates that we consume are readily broken down into simple carbohydrates in the digestive tract and absorbed just as readily as bioavailable simple carbohydrates.

Certain (nontoxic) long-chain carbohydrates are indigestible and are known as dietary fiber.  Among other effects, these tend to slow down the absorption rate and act as "filler" material that stimulates the stretch reflex of the gut, making you feel fuller.  They tend to make foods less calorically dense, since you need more volume to get the same amount bioävailable carbohydrates.

Complexity and caloric density are two different ways of categorization.  For example, foods like breads, pastas, rice, and potatoes are calorically dense, but are all complex carbohydrates.

Hope this clears some stuff up.
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Offline Dan Elric

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2009, 06:46:57 PM »
The reason people eat so many simple carbs is because they are simple.  They digest quickly and have nothing to slow the absorption rate.  This leaves you to feel less full off of more.  Complex carbs take more time and thus make you feel more full off of less.

I think you're confusing "simple carbs" with "calorically dense carbs".  Simple carbohydrates are monosaccharides and disaccharides, commonly known as sugars like fructose, lactose, sucrose, glucose, galactose, and so forth.  Complex carbohydrates are long chains made of monosaccharides, and are commonly known as starches.  Many complex carbohydrates that we consume are readily broken down into simple carbohydrates in the digestive tract and absorbed just as readily as bioavailable simple carbohydrates.

Certain (nontoxic) long-chain carbohydrates are indigestible and are known as dietary fiber.  Among other effects, these tend to slow down the absorption rate and act as "filler" material that stimulates the stretch reflex of the gut, making you feel fuller.  They tend to make foods less calorically dense, since you need more volume to get the same amount bioävailable carbohydrates.

Complexity and caloric density are two different ways of categorization.  For example, foods like breads, pastas, rice, and potatoes are calorically dense, but are all complex carbohydrates.

Hope this clears some stuff up.

Ahh, thanks for the clarification Patrick.
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Offline Poseyaaron

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2009, 12:55:43 PM »
yes true but the fact remains... well take my house for example if we could afford to have veggies and fruits only in variety im sure we would but we cant, also i happen to like cinnamon toast... ihad 6 pieces last night lol hmm  ;D and im not about to quit... i had only veggies fruit and meat  for about 3 months last year during wrestling im not sure if my performence improved bt let me tell u i was ALWAYS ALWAYS hungry :-[

Offline Dan Elric

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2009, 05:24:09 PM »
yes true but the fact remains... well take my house for example if we could afford to have veggies and fruits only in variety im sure we would but we cant, also i happen to like cinnamon toast... ihad 6 pieces last night lol hmm  ;D and im not about to quit... i had only veggies fruit and meat  for about 3 months last year during wrestling im not sure if my performence improved bt let me tell u i was ALWAYS ALWAYS hungry :-[

You're probably still growing.  Coupling that with physical activity well... You get hungry all of the time.  When available it is best to eat healthy, however, if there is no other option, then that's OK.
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Offline KC Parsons

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2009, 05:20:49 PM »
Sounds kinda crazy to me. I shop for my own groceries and my grocery bill went down significantly when I cleaned up my diet.
It may seem so on the surface, but you realize it's actually quite cost effective and also learn to shop smarter.


I suggest sticking with it and doing your best to clean your diet up with whatever resources you have.
:D

Offline Patrick Yang

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2009, 11:11:55 AM »
Posey, let me see if I understand your points here.  From what I'm hearing, your complaint about paleo are these points:

(1) Fruits and vegetables are not as affordable as grains and starches.
(2) Many people, you included, enjoy eating grains and starches.
(3) You were hungry all the time when you were wrestling and eating only fruits, vegetables, and meat.
(4) You were hungry all the time this summer when you were swimming and eating a high proportion of starches.

Is this correct?
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Offline Poseyaaron

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2009, 01:11:21 PM »
correct
                     
                               _____
                    _____/          \_____
                   /         @      @          \
                 /__@_____@____@___\       
                 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""
                              |        |
                              |        |
                              |        |
                             /          \   Magic mushrooom

Offline VahnCruz

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2009, 02:25:58 PM »
To take into account some folks metabolisms would be nice too. I am personally an advocate for a diet as near as paleo as possible, However due to a extremely high metabolism I cannot cut out all grains, not because I can't necessarily eat that much, I have tried it in the past with some success, but I simply do not have the time to be eating that much more volume. I already eat 4-5 meals a day and consume around 3500+ calories.
But this does not mean I should give up on trying, I eat unprocessed oatmeal and flourless breads (usually hemp or flax based) but besides that I try to stay as close to paleo as possible. I add extra 'extra-virgin' olive oil to foods to help take in more calories too. Everyone has different needs (and money) but these are not excuses for a poor diet so try your best.

Offline Dan Elric

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2009, 04:19:17 PM »
To take into account some folks metabolisms would be nice too. I am personally an advocate for a diet as near as paleo as possible, However due to a extremely high metabolism I cannot cut out all grains, not because I can't necessarily eat that much, I have tried it in the past with some success, but I simply do not have the time to be eating that much more volume. I already eat 4-5 meals a day and consume around 3500+ calories.
But this does not mean I should give up on trying, I eat unprocessed oatmeal and flourless breads (usually hemp or flax based) but besides that I try to stay as close to paleo as possible. I add extra 'extra-virgin' olive oil to foods to help take in more calories too. Everyone has different needs (and money) but these are not excuses for a poor diet so try your best.


Fat has more calories than carbs, and doesn't affect insulin levels.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:05:16 PM by Daniel Kelley »
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Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2009, 06:31:01 PM »
To take into account some folks metabolisms would be nice too. I am personally an advocate for a diet as near as paleo as possible, However due to a extremely high metabolism I cannot cut out all grains, not because I can't necessarily eat that much, I have tried it in the past with some success, but I simply do not have the time to be eating that much more volume. I already eat 4-5 meals a day and consume around 3500+ calories.
But this does not mean I should give up on trying, I eat unprocessed oatmeal and flourless breads (usually hemp or flax based) but besides that I try to stay as close to paleo as possible. I add extra 'extra-virgin' olive oil to foods to help take in more calories too. Everyone has different needs (and money) but these are not excuses for a poor diet so try your best.


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Offline VahnCruz

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2009, 01:53:56 PM »
I already eat a ton of meats (mainly salmon), nuts and oils. Besides I am not entirely convinced pure paleo is the way to go, I have high blood pressure, I manage to keep it in check by eating a low salt and healthy diet. Oatmeal is is a very nicely balanced high calorie food with a low Glycemis index (and insulin index thats lower than most meats including beef and fish*) that helps lower blood pressure and is very affordable at $.99lb. It is already very expensive for me to eat as I buy mostly all organic and can't shop in bulk due to a tiny fridge and freezer. Is it possible for me to go pure paleo, sure. Is it cost effective, time effective, or even convient, no. So I think 80-90% paleo is more than good enough.
As long as we don't live at the bottom of the food pyramid I think we will all be better off. Right?

*http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/66/5/1264-the american journal of clinical nutrition

I even cited my sources :)

Offline Dan Elric

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2009, 02:20:02 PM »
I already eat a ton of meats (mainly salmon), nuts and oils. Besides I am not entirely convinced pure paleo is the way to go, I have high blood pressure, I manage to keep it in check by eating a low salt and healthy diet. Oatmeal is is a very nicely balanced high calorie food with a low Glycemis index (and insulin index thats lower than most meats including beef and fish*) that helps lower blood pressure and is very affordable at $.99lb. It is already very expensive for me to eat as I buy mostly all organic and can't shop in bulk due to a tiny fridge and freezer. Is it possible for me to go pure paleo, sure. Is it cost effective, time effective, or even convient, no. So I think 80-90% paleo is more than good enough.
As long as we don't live at the bottom of the food pyramid I think we will all be better off. Right?

*http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/66/5/1264-the american journal of clinical nutrition

I even cited my sources :)

There is no "one size fits all" diet.  There are, however, some guidelines you can consider when figuring out what works best for you (like to shy away from grains).
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 02:21:45 PM by Daniel Kelley »
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Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2009, 02:23:07 PM »
It just doesn't make sense that you complain that you can't get enough bang for your buck with non-starchy carbs.  PLenty of foods with animal fat are loaded with calories and are dirt cheap.

Lots of things cause high blood pressure that are unrelated to diet - such as chronic stress levels or congenital issues.
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Offline Cameron Scott

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2009, 10:47:16 AM »
It just doesn't make sense that you complain that you can't get enough bang for your buck with non-starchy carbs.  PLenty of foods with animal fat are loaded with calories and are dirt cheap.
 
Lots of things cause high blood pressure that are unrelated to diet - such as chronic stress levels or congenital issues.
EDIT: the second portion of Chris's quote was not pertinent to my post.  Pretend it isn't there.

Well, he did say that he buys mostly organic so meats high in fat may not be as cost effective for him as they are for you. 

I already eat a ton of meats (mainly salmon), nuts and oils.  ... Is it possible for me to go pure paleo, sure. Is it cost effective, time effective, or even convient, no. So I think 80-90% paleo is more than good enough.

He's clearly not eating things willy-nilly and has put thought into his diet.  His current determination is that 80-90% paleo is what's right for him.  I think what he's saying sounds perfectly reasonable.  Then again I'm not terribly opposed to grains myself.  They are a part of my diet and while I don't have a perfect diet I feel it is healthy for my lifestyle.

[EDIT]I have not had time to follow Steve's suggestion of looking at Robb Wolf's site.  I encourage anyone to read that if they plan on taking my comments to heart since it could possibly change my mind on grains.[\EDIT]
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 09:37:18 AM by Cameron Scott »

Offline VahnCruz

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2009, 12:44:23 PM »
I live a subsistance lifestyle when it comes to meats (I live in Alaska) so most of my meats are deer and moose, both that have very low fat, though I do eat a lot of fish. I almost never buy meat unless it for a special meal, like Thanksgiving. i'm not trying to argue my diet is perfect, I'm saying stick to a healthy diet as much as you can, and to make your own decisions about diet is the way to go.

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2009, 05:52:45 PM »
Organic/grass fed meats can still be high in animal fat - and are WAY healthier since the ratio of n3:n6 is more favorable.  They still make organic/grass fed sausage and bacon which are very high in fats and are much higher in n3 than their grainfed counterparts.  Your point was moot all together until he mentioned that he lives in Alaska and hunts very very lean meat most of the time.

You can always start eating the brains of your game if you hunt.  Brains are very high in fat.

I never said that his diet was willy-nilly or that eating grains is evil.  I just avoid them...but I do eat them.  I avoid blanket statements.  I didn't say any of the things that you implied I was saying -- all I said was that there are alternatives that he may have not considered.  There are lots of foods with high caloric density that are not related to grains or carbs at all.  That is all I was saying.
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Offline Cameron Scott

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Re: PALEO DIET vs. CARBO LOADING
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2009, 09:35:08 AM »
Organic/grass fed meats can still be high in animal fat - and are WAY healthier since the ratio of n3:n6 is more favorable.  They still make organic/grass fed sausage and bacon which are very high in fats and are much higher in n3 than their grainfed counterparts.  Your point was moot all together until he mentioned that he lives in Alaska and hunts very very lean meat most of the time.

You can always start eating the brains of your game if you hunt.  Brains are very high in fat.

I never said that his diet was willy-nilly or that eating grains is evil.  I just avoid them...but I do eat them.  I avoid blanket statements.  I didn't say any of the things that you implied I was saying -- all I said was that there are alternatives that he may have not considered.  There are lots of foods with high caloric density that are not related to grains or carbs at all.  That is all I was saying.


Apologies if I misunderstood or misinterpreted your post.  I didn't think I was implying you said anything.  The only thing I was directly replying to in your post was the dirt-cheap part.  Adding the second sentence to your post was a mistake. 

The second part was my impression of his post and diet and my thoughts on it.  It is true that I thought you were critiquing his diet choices a little (not that critiquing is always bad), but I was more voicing my opinion in that part than addressing yours.

Bygones. :)  Now I have to go think about the next chance I might have to eat brains.  Mmmm.