Topic: Legal waiver for parkour to get cops off our backs

[Niemad]

if you have read the "laws against parkour" thread then you will see that if any one out there knows how to write up a legal document it would really help some of us out who are finding it hard to train in our area, it should include that we will not hold the property (be it public or private) responsible for any damages we cause to ourselves, that we are responsible for any permanent damages we cause (just to say we will be careful), well anyone who reads this please add something, if no one offers to help write it i am considering getting someone with legal power to write one up, i dont care how much it costs if it is for the good of the community, just think of all the people we will be helping who have not found their voice to call out for help, thank you

[Jack K]

heres my post from the other thread, just thought it would be good to bring this up in both threads.

the potential problems i have thought of for a parkour waiver would be:

1. not legally binding enough. if you look at the waivers you have to sign at the gym, or pretty much anywhere that you could hurt yourself, they are pretty long and specific. they make sure that even if you are missing vital parts of yourself, they can just shrug and say, "it was in the waiver".

2. the Minor factor. assuming that many of us are minors, im guessing that we dont have authority to sign a legally binding document about our personal safety. thats why we need parent/guardian signatures on waivers also.

3. the owners have no reason to let you use their property. They dont NEED to, unlike a gym, where its what they are there for. why would they let you on the property even if they weren't at legal risk? negative PR and thinking you are reckless or want to be a stuntman would probably turn them off to this. they might just not like what you are doing, or be concerned for your safety in a non-legal way. but education like Minnesota parkour's pamphlet would help.

but other than that, i haven thought of anything else. but im just a teenager, so i dont claim to really know a whole lot (or anything really) about property laws and such.

[Niemad]

thats okay thanks for the input, like i said its not a cure but it might help to slow the poison, yes if you are a minor you would need parental permission, it not being legally binding enuff might be a problem with some places, like how u said that people dont have to let us, but mainly their problems with us is getting sued for us getting hurt, people do go to a place just to get hurt and sue and that is what they are afraid of

[Dan Frank]

If they don't have the liability excuse to not let people do parkour, they'll just find different excuses. People usually don't want people doing parkour on their property.

[Niemad]

i know that, there are some die-hards out there who wont care about the waiver but i talked to Bainbridge High school's administration and they have heard of parkour "the principle loves district B13" and all they are concerned about it the damages liability, he said if there was a waiver he would allow it on all of his campuses thats a huge leap for me and my friends out here seeing as it has all this amazing practice material, and if it works for one person it will work for more

[Dan Frank]

Of course, there ARE people who are genuinely concerned about liability, and there are also people who will simply allow you to train regardless. My point was that in general, when given a choice to permit or disallow parkour on their property, most people would rather opt out.

A good incentive for property owners or administrators is to offer community service and pick up litter for X amount of time while training at their facilities. Something similar, in combination with a waiver, might be a viable option.

[Cameron Scott]

I think this is a great idea.  Those who are saying it probably won't help in some or most situations are probably right.  But if this works 1 out of every 10 times it's worth it.  Every step forward is good.

As for it not being as exhaustive as a gym waiver, well there's no reason it couldn't be.  Make it as specific or vague as needed, which in legalese I think means always very, very specific.

I wish I had some legal credentials to write something like this up, but I don't.  Several of my friends are lawyers though so I'll see if I can find someone willing to help out.

[Niemad]

thanks man, let me know what u find out ok, and i did offer to pick up any trash in the area when i talked to bhs and they went for it, and Dan Frank i understand that it wont work for everyone but to shoot down the attempt to try means that any step forward will never be taken whether it works or not, we all know the many ways that this can fail but we do it anyway just like when we parkour in the first place, beating the odds when they are seemingly stacked against us is what its all about right

[max eisenberg]

sorry dude, wont work. unless you make a custom waiver for every place you train and sit down with lawyers and the owners of the property (not the people who work there, the real owners) it wont do shit. even then, very very VERY slim chance of anything happening. your best bet is to sit and talk with the people who own the spot or the people who work there, explain what you are doing, show them how you stay safe, how you stay fit and more importantly, how you wont damage their property or yourself.

good luck, you are most definitely going to need it if you try this.

[Everett McClain]

I am sure that if you go to your local library/call a lawyer (which is free where I come from) You could get some really good help.

But, I agree, you would probably have to come up with a distinct waiver for each place. I think it would be an excellant idea, but tough.

Good luck

[Cameron Scott]

I think some might be missing the point of this.  Maybe I am too, but the way I see it this is not an attempt to create a document which will provide the property owner with an ironclad document that protects them from any liability suit from you.  They don't really need that sort of thing because you aren't going to sue them.  The goal of this is to provide them with enough reassurance that they understand that and feel comfortable with you practicing on their property.  It's all about making the person who has what you want feel comfortable so that they will go along with you.

It will not work for everyone, but Niemad has already said that he has a situation where if he has this type of waiver then he will gain access to a practice area.  So it isn't like this will NEVER work.

i talked to Bainbridge High school's administration and ... he said if there was a waiver he would allow it on all of his campuses

Niemad, I will let you know if I get any leads. 

[Charles Moreland]

I'm not sure if this is state specific, but I do know that you CANNOT, no matter if you are a minor nor an adult, sign away your rights. Waivers are present at gyms because they are required for insurance reasons, however still may not hold up in a court of law. Zachary Cohn and I attempted to use waivers to solve many of our legal issues in starting an RIT recognized Parkour Club, and the use of waivers were discounted for this reason.

If the principle wants a waiver, then perhaps you should work with him specifically to write up a waiver for you guys.