Author Topic: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.  (Read 1313 times)

Offline David M.

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2009, 06:46:25 PM »
Gaining 20 pounds of muscle is going to take a lot of hard work. It also may not be good for you.
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Offline FastGuppy

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2009, 06:48:55 PM »
Gaining 20 pounds of muscle is going to take a lot of hard work. It also may not be good for you.

that all depends on what your goals are.
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Offline tombb

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2009, 07:06:10 PM »
Edit: Mark's words not mine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, god. How are you squatting 100k without a rack? Are these numbers what you do all the time? A gallon of skim milk has too many carbs and might well make you fat. And the book is not any more expensive in Australia than it is here except for the shipping, which is what you get for living in Australia.

thing to remember about skim milk is that is has a lot more carbs than whole milk; the volume of the fat has to be replaced with something. Would you rather the calories come from fat, or carbs? I'd rather have the fat if I were trying to grow.

http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=816&highlight=Skim+Milk+Whole+carbs


http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2947&highlight=Skim+Milk+Whole+carbs
Yes he's definitely wrong there, as I explained before.

Offline FastGuppy

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2009, 07:49:54 PM »
I have extremely educated people that have two opposing beliefs. Until we can counter arguments and use proper reasoning I just have to go with I don't know. Saying it's just less butter isn't enough considering you seem to share the same kind of credibility as Mark. If it was any other time or any other average joe saying this then yeah I would go with your word.

Credibility is the only way for me to decide the right answer, and for someone to be credible I need the sources. Otherwise it's like I said, I don't know.


edit: As for beer. Lol Mark's not saying drink beer. All Mark said here was not to take it out of the equation when it comes to hydration. He says that it does work for hydration. The example used was it was a safe way in the medieval age to avoid contaminated water and hydrate.

Mark just seems to have a lot of info that is opposing to conventional wisdom.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 07:58:21 PM by FastGuppy »
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Offline tombb

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2009, 08:53:24 PM »
I have extremely educated people that have two opposing beliefs. Until we can counter arguments and use proper reasoning I just have to go with I don't know. Saying it's just less butter isn't enough considering you seem to share the same kind of credibility as Mark. If it was any other time or any other average joe saying this then yeah I would go with your word.

Credibility is the only way for me to decide the right answer, and for someone to be credible I need the sources. Otherwise it's like I said, I don't know.
I will go in a more detailed explanation of what I already discussed before, because I want to make it clear that this discussion is not about "beliefs" or "credibility", neither of those really matter. The facts are what matter, and they are the same for everybody.

Mark simply made an argument by volume, which I feel is too oversimplified, prone to be misinterpreted and actually ultimately flawed as I will explain.

Hopefully if I put some simple numbers to it you can see where the impressions you might have gotten from reading his quote is incorrect at multiple levels, because it blows out of proportion small increases caused by reduction of volume, and more importantly it does not consider aspects of centrifugation that actually reduce carbs in skim milk

This is Mark's argument:
When you remove fat from 1 quart of milk, you remove a small amount of volume. By volume, whole milk has about 3% of fat.
So when you remove it, you have 97% of the original volume of milk, basically you lost 1/30th of the volume of milk.
Here is the critical part: since you still sell it by volume, that 1/30th of liquid is replaced by something. That something is more skim milk. Technically, that does contain also carbs, as well as proteins, vitamins, nutrients, but mostly water (more than 90%).
So, by volume, skim milk has about ~90% of ~3% more water (so ~3% more water), and also ~0.1% more protein and 0.15% more carbs. 
So, even considering his point about needing to add 3% more skim milk liquid to preserve equal volumes, the ratio of proteins to carbs is not changed.
Not only that, the amount of calories added by that amount of carbs in a quart of skim milk is at most 2 (TWO) calories compared to the 285 (two HUNDRED eighty five) calories lost from fat, so you don't even come close to "replacing" even just 1% of the calories from fat with carbs, plus again you get more proteins and nutrients too.

Not only that, but in fact more carbs are lost in the separation process than they are 'added' by adding more skim milk volume, so you actually end up with something slightly more protein dense and with slightly less carbs, which makes whole milk have slightly MORE carbs than skim milk, by volume.

If you need more confirmation, you can compare the actual nutritional data of whole milk and skim milk from any source, even by volume as Mark was discussing, for example:
1 quart of Skim milk: carbs=50, proteins=33 calories=333(link)
1 quart of Whole milk: carbs=51, proteins=31 calories=586 (link)

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2009, 10:00:06 PM »
take is to PM's guys.  Poor Trevor is probably confused as balls now.

That said, tombb is right, imho, in pretty much every post here (except maybe Spencer's nitpicking of semantics...).

Guppy, you are replacing your perception of another's thoughts with thinking for yourself.  Looking up the nutrition info for the different milks is as easy as going to www.nutritiondata.com.

Milk Index

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/69/2

skim

The difference in volume is made up in water, as shown on the site where it lists water content.
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Offline Brett Robert

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2009, 11:04:14 PM »
Well, Beretta, my goal is to lose 10% of my body fat and put 20 pounds of muscle on by December 20th. Then keep that goal for every 5 months. until I have under 10% body fat left. But I'll lower the lbs of muscle I want every time I complete it. Maybe by 2 pounds. I want to feel and look fit. I also don't wanna weigh 300 pounds cause of muscle gain... :/

Good, that goal is a little better, but I'm confused about what you mean.  Are you saying you'd like to lose 10% of your current bodyfat (i.e. if you have 20lbs bodyfat, lose 2 lbs bodyfat by 12/20), or reduce your BF% by 10% (i.e. go from 20% BF to 10% BF)?

Once you answer some questions, we can start working on training goals that will help you achieve that goal.

Are you more interested in being strong, or looking muscular?  Do you have access to weights?  If you do, where and what kind of weights can you use?  (Are they barbells, or dumbbells, how much total weight do you have?  Do you have, or are you willing to get a gym membership?  Is there a weight room or class at your school?)

take is to PM's guys.  Poor Trevor is probably confused as balls now.

Please, let's help Trevor.  Start another thread or take it to PM/IM if you must continue the conversation.

Offline tombb

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2009, 11:29:32 PM »
take is to PM's guys.  Poor Trevor is probably confused as balls now.

Please, let's help Trevor.  Start another thread or take it to PM/IM if you must continue the conversation.

Well, Spencer and Guppy or anyone else that might have been confused about milk are not less deserving of being helped just because they didn't start their own thread.

It's good to be able to inform people about what they -know- they don't know, but it's often even better to be able to inform them of what they -thought- they knew but really didn't, even if it can only be done in the middle of other threads or conversations.

If it's really such a concern for you two, I think Chris has the forum clearance level to rearrange the posts starting from the incorrect statements about skim/whole milk into a separate thread with a different title/topic (maybe even in diet). It's a bit of extra work but not completely unreasonable especially if he really feels it is worth the effort in order to preserve this thread as a single-topic.
However, the opposite could probably be argued too, that the OP topic has been turned into less of a "general fitness" topic and more into a "let's make a personalized routine" that would maybe fit better as feedback in the "training journals" section or as a PM conversation with the OP.

Either way, trying too hard to stay on topic or keeping things simple is never a legitimate reason for treating really wrong notions as if they were correct.

Offline Trevor McDowell

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2009, 11:33:56 PM »
Well, Beretta, my goal is to lose 10% of my body fat and put 20 pounds of muscle on by December 20th. Then keep that goal for every 5 months. until I have under 10% body fat left. But I'll lower the lbs of muscle I want every time I complete it. Maybe by 2 pounds. I want to feel and look fit. I also don't wanna weigh 300 pounds cause of muscle gain... :/

Good, that goal is a little better, but I'm confused about what you mean.  Are you saying you'd like to lose 10% of your current bodyfat (i.e. if you have 20lbs bodyfat, lose 2 lbs bodyfat by 12/20), or reduce your BF% by 10% (i.e. go from 20% BF to 10% BF)?

Once you answer some questions, we can start working on training goals that will help you achieve that goal.

Are you more interested in being strong, or looking muscular?  Do you have access to weights?  If you do, where and what kind of weights can you use?  (Are they barbells, or dumbbells, how much total weight do you have?  Do you have, or are you willing to get a gym membership?  Is there a weight room or class at your school?)

take is to PM's guys.  Poor Trevor is probably confused as balls now.

Please, let's help Trevor.  Start another thread or take it to PM/IM if you must continue the conversation.

Reduce my body fat % by 10% and yes I did get a bit confused. Cause it went from some really good advice to me being really confused. But strength has never been an issue with me. I have usually been stronger than a lot of people my age. (14 almost 15) But I do wish to look more muscular I do have access to weights (both barbells and dumbells but that's it and also a bench) I had a gym membership but my dad decided to get home gym equipment I have 400 lbs of weights. There is a weight class and room at my school but if I were to go now I would have to sign up for football. That's the only way I can get access to the class and room. :/ But I decided to ask a few gym teachers about parkour over email and they said that if I wanted to be able to train that during class take power walking. They go all over in that class.



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