Author Topic: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.  (Read 1313 times)

Offline Trevor McDowell

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I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« on: July 24, 2009, 11:20:25 PM »
I have been doing PK for 2 and a half years now... But I took a huge interval in between each time I actually did PK... I got back into it about 8 months ago. I feel physically fit. If I were to take my shirt off most people wouldn't think that I could be able to do half the things I can do. But I put on a medium size shirt and look bigger and in shape. I have lost 15 pounds doing PK alone. I also have started walking more and more places. I still haven't kicked the habit of my eating ways... so I was just wondering if anyone has any advice they can give me about slimming down. I wanna be able to take off my shirt and have people KNOW I can do this. I need help. My workout hasn't been doing much....


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Offline Brett Robert

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2009, 02:35:02 AM »
Before anyone can help, we need to know what kind of help you want.  To do this, you should set some goals.  Right now, the only goal in your post is:

I wanna be able to take off my shirt and have people KNOW I can do this.

I suggest reading Chris Salvato's article on goals that work well for parkour.  There are several problems with your goal that you may realize after reading that article.  For starters your goal may not be achievable because we can't measure it.  There's no accurate way to gauge what other people think you can do.  Also, you haven't set a time line, so we'd never know when to check if it was met (even if we could measure it).

In all likelihood your general goal is probably closer "to look more muscular."  Again, that can't be measured.  A goal like "Reduce body fat % by 2% and gain 10 lbs of muscle by October 1st," (which is really 2 separate goals) can be measured, and we know when to measure it. 

However, if that's really your goal, I'd ask you to reconsider your motivation.  As traceurs, shouldn't we be more concerned with our capabilities than other people's perceptions?  Wouldn't you rather be stronger, jump farther, run faster and otherwise increase your own abilities than look better? 

These questions are important because the training regimen to get stronger (improve your abilities) is not the same as the training regimen to increase muscle mass (look better).

So, read Chris's article and think about what you really want to do.  When you think you have specific goals and an idea of when you'd like to accomplish them, come back and post them in here.  If something in the article is unclear, post questions and quote the specific parts that don't make sense to you.  The general fitness board is one of my favorite parts of APK, but do note that people here will sometimes be very blunt.

Offline Steven Low

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2009, 03:33:31 AM »
Want muscle?

Lift heavy, eat more
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Offline David M.

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2009, 04:26:35 AM »
Want muscle?

Lift heavy, eat more, eat healthy?

Just to clarify...
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Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2009, 06:04:56 AM »
Eat. Move. Improve.
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Offline FastGuppy

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2009, 07:15:16 AM »
Make sure your sleep, protein, hydration and fatty acid needs are okay as well.

Eight hour of sleep, one point six grams of protein per kilogram, and for every thousand of calories you burn drink I liter of water (beer and soda count as a means of hydration they are just not that good for you for other reasons.

Finally, make sure you're getting all the fatty acids you need. Fat is better than carbs. The term fat has a bad reputation for obvious reasons, but if you're building muscle fat is a good thing. Fish oils provide a lot of good fat so eat lots of fish. Drink whole milk as well.

If you don't want to gain weight then that is all a matter of measuring your caloric intake. My suggestion is make sure everything above is alright and consume healthy fat. 

(correct me if I’m wrong.)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 07:17:30 AM by FastGuppy »
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Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2009, 07:48:27 AM »
Eight hour of sleep, one point six grams of protein per kilogram, and for every thousand of calories you burn drink I liter of water (beer and soda count as a means of hydration they are just not that good for you for other reasons.

Hm, before you recommend 1.6g/kg of protein wouldn't you agree that the diet's quality needs to be improved first?

Soda can count as hydration, sure, in the strictest terms possible...Alcohol, however, is a diuretic and you wind up taking in less fluid through alcohol since the rate of fluid out via excretion exceeds the rate of fluid in from the beer itself.

Finally, make sure you're getting all the fatty acids you need. Fat is better than carbs. The term fat has a bad reputation for obvious reasons, but if you're building muscle fat is a good thing. Fish oils provide a lot of good fat so eat lots of fish. Drink whole milk as well.

Just to be clear, whole milk is not a bad choice, but its not the best choice if someone is trying to lose weight.  The calories from the fat in the milk are unnecessary for someone trying to cut down on weight...

Fat needs to be watched for someone trying to lose weight because it is very easy to overconsume.  Even so, this is way too detailed for someone just starting out, imho...

Point is, just fix your diet first - analyze these details later, imho, Trevor.

If you don't want to gain weight then that is all a matter of measuring your caloric intake. My suggestion is make sure everything above is alright and consume healthy fat. 

Looks to me like he needs to get his diet on track before he can focus on losing/gaining.  I am going to put my money down that he needs to lean out first before considering eating enough to put on muscle mass.
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Offline FastGuppy

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2009, 08:17:02 AM »
opps i thought he was trying to gain weight by adding muscle.


Just for clarification,
Doesn't skim milk have more carbs than whole milk?

Edit:

In addition, I was reading practical programming and Mark was saying that alcohol may not be healthy, but it should be considered when used as a means of hydration when consumed. He also mentioned in the medieval days it was a way for people to avoid contaminated water and also hydrate themselves.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 08:21:35 AM by FastGuppy »
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Offline Steven Low

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2009, 09:34:25 AM »
opps i thought he was trying to gain weight by adding muscle.


Just for clarification,
Doesn't skim milk have more carbs than whole milk?

Edit:

In addition, I was reading practical programming and Mark was saying that alcohol may not be healthy, but it should be considered when used as a means of hydration when consumed. He also mentioned in the medieval days it was a way for people to avoid contaminated water and also hydrate themselves.

No, in skim they just "skim" the fat off of the top of the milk. Same amount of carbs per volume just less fat. More or less.

If you're of age and want to drink alcohol go for it... but it's not gonna help you much. And yes, it's an anti-bacterial so it was useful for cleansing... but yeah. Just ignore alcohol.
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Offline FastGuppy

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2009, 10:26:29 AM »
Mark said skim milk substituted carbs for fat. I don't know if that's true or not. I guess I'll have to find the thread on his Q&A forum where he said that.
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Offline Brett Robert

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2009, 10:29:40 AM »
opps i thought he was trying to gain weight by adding muscle.


Just for clarification,
Doesn't skim milk have more carbs than whole milk?

Edit:

In addition, I was reading practical programming and Mark was saying that alcohol may not be healthy, but it should be considered when used as a means of hydration when consumed. He also mentioned in the medieval days it was a way for people to avoid contaminated water and also hydrate themselves.

No, in skim they just "skim" the fat off of the top of the milk. Same amount of carbs per volume just less fat. More or less.

If you're of age and want to drink alcohol go for it... but it's not gonna help you much. And yes, it's an anti-bacterial so it was useful for cleansing... but yeah. Just ignore alcohol.

Hey guys, Trevor's not of age, he's pretty young (14 or 15 I think).  Also, he sounds pretty new to fitness and while all the information everyone gave is good info, I'm not sure it's what he's looking for.  I'd hate to overwhelm him with information about managing diet if he's looking "just to exercise."  To many newcomers it's easy to think it's all too complex, and decide ignorance is bliss.  

Before we inundate Trevor with in depth facts about diet and exercise, I think it might be best to help him understand how the goals he comes up with will affect his training, and how his training will affect his performance in parkour.  Then we can give him some simple information about how he can change his diet for the better to enhance the effectiveness of his training.

Offline tombb

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2009, 10:57:04 AM »
Mark said skim milk substituted carbs for fat. I don't know if that's true or not. I guess I'll have to find the thread on his Q&A forum where he said that.
If he phrased it like that, he's absolutely wrong.
I am sure he meant to say something like "given the same amount of calories and different amounts of each milk, proportionally..."

But even in that sense, skim milk also "substitutes" protein for fat, vitamins for fat, etc, all because to get as many calories as one fat-full glass of whole milk you actually have to get one and a half glasses of skim milk. That means you will get 50% more proteins and nutrients for the same amount of calories. 

Whole milk is just skim milk with a lot of butter stirred in, nothing more.

About alcohol, if anybody tells themselves they are just drinking it for hydration, there's a good chance they might have a drinking problem, as making up absurd reasons is a typical red flag (drinking alcohol actually makes people more dehydrated, one of the big causes of hangovers).

Offline Spencer B

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2009, 11:07:15 AM »
Whole milk is just skim milk with a lot of butter stirred in, nothing more.

Isn't that thinking very backwards? Isn't skim milk just whole milk with the fat 'skimmed' out of it? So wouldn't that make skim milk the 'nothing more'?
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Offline tombb

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2009, 11:26:44 AM »
Whole milk is just skim milk with a lot of butter stirred in, nothing more.

Isn't that thinking very backwards? Isn't skim milk just whole milk with the fat 'skimmed' out of it? So wouldn't that make skim milk the 'nothing more'?
They are exactly the same thing. It's like saying 2=3-1 or 3=2+1, it's the same. In fact I worded it differently to make it even more clear.

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2009, 11:36:02 AM »
Whole milk is just skim milk with a lot of butter stirred in, nothing more.

Isn't that thinking very backwards? Isn't skim milk just whole milk with the fat 'skimmed' out of it? So wouldn't that make skim milk the 'nothing more'?
They are exactly the same thing. It's like saying 2=3-1 or 3=2+1, it's the same. In fact I worded it differently to make it even more clear.

Yes, but you worded it like skim milk was the original object and that whole milk was a by-product of skim milk + butter (Fat). For lack of a better example, it's like saying a kong is just a kong-gainer without the gainer. It's technically correct, but it doesn't make sense because the kong is the original movement.
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Offline tombb

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2009, 11:57:22 AM »
Whole milk is just skim milk with a lot of butter stirred in, nothing more.

Isn't that thinking very backwards? Isn't skim milk just whole milk with the fat 'skimmed' out of it? So wouldn't that make skim milk the 'nothing more'?
They are exactly the same thing. It's like saying 2=3-1 or 3=2+1, it's the same. In fact I worded it differently to make it even more clear.

Yes, but you worded it like skim milk was the original object and that whole milk was a by-product of skim milk + butter (Fat). For lack of a better example, it's like saying a kong is just a kong-gainer without the gainer. It's technically correct, but it doesn't make sense because the kong is the original movement.
No. We are not talking about how milk is produced or processed, or what its natural state is. We are talking about nutritional content. When milk is ingested there is no difference between skimmilk+butter and whole milk. But, if it helps, you can add "like" between "just" and "skim" in my original statement, that's still consistent with the point I was making.

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2009, 12:01:41 PM »
Whole milk is just skim milk with a lot of butter stirred in, nothing more.

Isn't that thinking very backwards? Isn't skim milk just whole milk with the fat 'skimmed' out of it? So wouldn't that make skim milk the 'nothing more'?
They are exactly the same thing. It's like saying 2=3-1 or 3=2+1, it's the same. In fact I worded it differently to make it even more clear.

Yes, but you worded it like skim milk was the original object and that whole milk was a by-product of skim milk + butter (Fat). For lack of a better example, it's like saying a kong is just a kong-gainer without the gainer. It's technically correct, but it doesn't make sense because the kong is the original movement.
No. We are not talking about how milk is produced or processed, or what its natural state is. We are talking about nutritional content. When milk is ingested there is no difference between skimmilk+butter and whole milk. But, if it helps, you can add "like" between "just" and "skim" in my original statement, that's still consistent with the point I was making.

But this again still seems wrong to me... I thought fat contained and helped nutrients be absorbed into your body. Or if I'm wrong, then perhaps you could correct me?
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Offline tombb

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2009, 12:43:37 PM »
...
But this again still seems wrong to me... I thought fat contained and helped nutrients be absorbed into your body. Or if I'm wrong, then perhaps you could correct me?
No, not really.
Milk is a bit of a special case because its fat is organized in special structures, but even in that case it does not contain or help nutrients being absorbed into the body (aside from fat and a couple of fat-soluble vitamins).

Milk has several sphere-like microaggregations of nutrients, like fat globules and protein micelles (particularly from casein proteins).
The protein ones in particular are what makes cheese a sort of gel and in both skim milk, whole milk or cheese makes protein get absorbed more slowly.
Skim milk still has these, and in fact you get a slower digestion and absorption than the purified proteins and components alone.

But the fat globules themselves are not so important in terms of other nutrients. They do slow down the absorption of fat itself a bit, but their main function is to allow the dispersion and emulsification of fat in milk without aggregation (think of trying to mix oil and water) and prevent self-digestion by milk enzymes (which however is not a problem after pasteurization).

Not only that, but whole milk in stores is generally homogenized anyways, which is the process of breaking up these fat globules. Otherwise in its natural state it would spontaneously start to separate into two layers as a mix of globules and proteins would still aggregate and rise to the top after less than a day.
And skim milk is not made by skimming the top of milk anymore, but by using centrifugation, which is better as it gives a clearer separation of fat from other nutrients (so protein is not really lost this way, aside from trace levels of 0.005 the original ratio).

Basically, the main things you remove to get skim milk are a lot of fat and a couple of very common liposoluble vitamins you can find in most food (A D E K) which are then usually added back just for good measures.

Absorption efficiency and nutrient intakes of other nutrients remains the same, and in a sense it's actually increased 150% if you were to look at percentages by calorie content.

Not having to digest fat can speed up digestion and change how full and satiated you feel, but fat from almost any other source (including EFA etc) will have essentially the same effect in those respects, so again drinking skim milk and using butter (or other milkfat sources like cheese) in the same meal is really not different than just drinking whole milk, but gives you more flexibility in how you prepare your food and balance your diet or make things more palatable to you.

Offline Trevor McDowell

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2009, 04:32:38 PM »
Well, Beretta, my goal is to lose 10% of my body fat and put 20 pounds of muscle on by December 20th. Then keep that goal for every 5 months. until I have under 10% body fat left. But I'll lower the lbs of muscle I want every time I complete it. Maybe by 2 pounds. I want to feel and look fit. I also don't wanna weigh 300 pounds cause of muscle gain... :/


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Offline FastGuppy

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Re: I feel fit... I just don't look fit.
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2009, 06:44:15 PM »
Edit: Mark's words not mine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, god. How are you squatting 100k without a rack? Are these numbers what you do all the time? A gallon of skim milk has too many carbs and might well make you fat. And the book is not any more expensive in Australia than it is here except for the shipping, which is what you get for living in Australia.

thing to remember about skim milk is that is has a lot more carbs than whole milk; the volume of the fat has to be replaced with something. Would you rather the calories come from fat, or carbs? I'd rather have the fat if I were trying to grow.

http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=816&highlight=Skim+Milk+Whole+carbs


http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2947&highlight=Skim+Milk+Whole+carbs
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 06:57:37 PM by FastGuppy »
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