Topic: Methode Naturelle vs. Weights

[John Conway]

Methode Naturelle only.

I'm very strict on this for myself. I've heard that Jackie Chan never
lifted weights, and that always boosts me a little. Plus, I find that training parkour helps me
a lot in the manner of conditioning to strengthen my body physically. (needlessto say technically too)

I've tried lifting weights but I just find that so boring. Plus...I really don't see myelf "pumping iron" in that
sense, I feel more comfortable in my outside/natural environment regardless if people see me or not. Which
is weird because before I started parkour, I hated when people watched me workout.

HOW BOUT YOU!?

[FreeStyleFox]

Wouldn't this be better on the national general discussion board?

[Sainaa / Airflow]

no, thats not true. Jackie Chan lifted weights. Ya. lifting weights is pretty boring but i do it like every other day with a friend. i'm getting not much results, I think because of my died haha. And You know what exactly what I mean NoRush. I eat insanely too much.

[Dan Frank]

Lifting weights isn't boring at all, you just aren't used to it, and you aren't in the right mindset. If you already work out bodyweight-style, it's the same state of mind, only with weights that can (don't anyone jump on me; I said 'can') be a lot more challenging. If it helps, Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee lifted weights, and so do a lot of (most?) people on here.

[John Conway]

Wow, than I heard wrong. But lifting weights is far too boring to me.
It's not my mind set, just my personal preference.

[John Conway]

Wouldn't this be better on the national general discussion board?

That's irrelevant. I'm trying to stimulate IN.

[Alex-INPK]

I agree, pretty much along the same lines, i just couldn't get into weight lifting and hardly saw results, but when i began really training outdoors and such, i actually enjoyed it and i saw results.

[Gregg]

NoRush - Methode Naturelle and MovNat still involve lifting, carrying, throwing and catching weight. The difference is the location [often outdoors], types of lifts [large muscle groups, not isolating muscles], and that you don't stop moving.

I totally agree with you. I hate being inside when it's nice out.

Good luck stimulating IN. Come visit us in HI if you'd like.

[John Conway]

Good luck stimulating IN. Come visit us in HI if you'd like.

HI as in Hawaii...because I would totally love to do that haha!
Ozzi once offered housing but I actually haven't talked to him
in a while...

[Dan Frank]

Well, for your upper body, it's preferable to do natural movements, but it's optimal to do them with added weight when possible. Think weighted pullups and dips, HSPUs, and isometric strength skills like front/back lever and planche (which are exactly what I do). For your legs and core, however, there's really no substitute for heavy lifting.

[Gregg]

Dan: Sounds like CrossFit to me CrossFit's a good workout, but I don't have all the equipment, and I prefer to be outside. I still do heavy lifting, but it may be a fridge, a large tire, a rock, or another person. Lifting 200# is one thing. Lifting your 200# friend and trying to fireman's carry him 30 yd down the beach is another.

HI as in Hawaii Forum.  Not as good as being at the beach, but it's not as expensive. Especially check out our "Going Natural" sub-forum. I think you'll find lots of ideas to inspire you.

[Brett Robert]

Wouldn't this be better on the national general discussion board?

That's irrelevant. I'm trying to stimulate IN.

Why not stimulate us all?

As far as MN vs. Weight training, my two cents is this: why not both?  I would think you'd get better overall results this way.  Especially if you throw in flexibility training.

To me the main drawback of MN for strength training (which is not the same as endurance training) is that it can be harder to track your progress.  Going into the gym it's easy to add 5 or 10 pounds every session, it's harder to get a constant progression when you're lifting things of unknown weight. 

I still do heavy lifting, but it may be a fridge, a large tire, a rock, or another person. Lifting 200# is one thing. Lifting your 200# friend and trying to fireman's carry him 30 yd down the beach is another.

I've done both, you're absolutely right, they're two different things.  Just because one has the strength to bench, squat or deadlift 200 pounds, doesn't mean they have the stamina and endurance to fireman's carry a person (with uneven weight distrubution) that weighs 200 pounds.  Also, just because you can fireman's carry someone, doesn't mean you can deadlift an equal weight.  Now, deadlifting people: there's a challenge!  Another really good challenge for people moving is rescue swimming! 

There's a reservoir in Sacramento where the local traceurs go cliff jumping.  The last time I was there we brought the new guys out to try it, and one of them did but couldn't swim very well because he had pants on.  He calmly, but loudly, asked for help so myself and another traceur booked it swimming over to him and swam him in together.  Man was that tiring!  Even with two people on the job.

To me weight training is training for practical applications.  I love both MN & the weight room.  The feeling of deadlifting 225 for the first time was equal to the feeling of getting that huge (for me, about 12') wall at UC Berkeley for the first time, or landing a back tuck in the gym, or a day out at Salmon Creek being primal.  I think the best thing overall is to have a routine that you stick to in order to accomplish your goals, and that routine should be flexible and have space and room to add all kinds of random things.  However, I feel like weight training is the best way to train strength specifically.

[Gregg]

In Hebert's MN, there were regular tests, so you knew what your progress was. Flex exercises are part of Series 1 and 2 [the warm up and first set(s) of exercises.]

For day to day, weights are easier to check your progress. I don't really have them, and I prefer outdoors.

In real life, tho - if you have to move a box, it's not going to say how heavy it is. You need to know how to lift it correctly, when you can handle it by yourself, and when you need to move it some other way, or get help.

Deadlifting people? Start with a large sandbag that's not totally filled. They won't complain as loud, and they don't get hurt as easy if you drop them. 

Rescue swimming is hard, especially with current. Congrats on that.

[John Conway]

Whoa...thanks for the input. I've learned much! 

HI as in Hawaii Forum. 

hahha...oooh! 

Why not stimulate us all?

To this, well, IN really isn't too active on the forums. As you can see, more from other
communities visit/chit chat on the IN boards than my own dear Indiana corn-lovers 
I'm trying to turn that around.

In other news, I'm glad to hear you get that happy when you succeed in weights.

[Patrick "PyroPat" Caric]

I agree with beretta.. I think a healthy mix of both is the best way to go.  For example, a well-rounded workout outside is great and gets a just that...well-rounded results.  However, if there is an area in which you want to focus more attention on.  Weights can be very beneficial. For example I am trying to work on my muscle ups but those muscles of mine are very underdeveloped for my size.  So to work on it, I go to the gym every once in a while and I make sure I do some lat pull downs, triceps, biceps. But mostly the lat pull-down.  

and conway, you can stimulate me whenever you want.    

[Brett Robert]

For example I am trying to work on my muscle ups but those muscles of mine are very underdeveloped for my size.  So to work on it, I go to the gym every once in a while and I make sure I do some lat pull downs, triceps, biceps. But mostly the lat pull-down.  

I'm working on increasing my muscle-up reps too, this is what Chris wrote in response to my question about pulling exercises:

There are many ways to scale up pullups without weight.  Lat pulldowns and seated row are not exercises I would prescribe to...well, anyone who isn't injured or EXTREMELY weak.

My site has an article on this that goes over alternative pullups as well as other pulling goals.

You may want to consider front lever progressoin pullups, L pull-ups, OAC variations, ice cream makers, front lever pulls, yewkis or Inverted Hang to Hang as slow and controlled as possible while maintaining straight body.

Just thought I'd throw that out there for you.  No more lat pulls for me.  Clapping and weighted pull-ups instead!  Also explosive and weighted dips for the M/Us too.  The guys on the General Fitness board are extremely helpful, check it out if you get a chance.

Good luck on your goals Patrick!

[Dan Frank]

Yep, lat pulldowns are a no-go if you are able to do pullups of any sort.

I wouldn't say that the utility of weights is in the potential to isolate, because you hardly ever need to isolate specific muscles, but rather that you can use them in bodyweight exercises like pullups and dips to tone up the difficulty, and you can also do exercises that simply wouldn't be difficult enough at all without weight, like squats and deadlifts.

[Gregg]

PyroPat: If you want to muscle-up, practice muscle-ups. Since you don't have the muscle yet, look at some of the different ways to scale it back a little. Jump ups, feet on box, using bands, etc. I was looking for video for you... couldn't find it.

[Dante6126]

With exercise. I do alil bit of everything: Lifting weights, Natural method, martial arts, calesthenics, flexibility, etc. I like to spice it up alittle. An example...

Mondays: Weight Lifting.
Tuesdays: Cardio, muaythai, flexibility.
Wednesdays: Parkour, natural method.
Etc...

[Brian D]

I've recently converted to Movnat (I know they are different things, but Movnat stemmed from methode naturelle) due to several reasons. For starters, I find bodyweight repetitions boring (Never started weights at all) and would much prefer training upper body strength in a more interesting way. I'd rather climb trees and swing about in them than go for maximum pullup number.

Secondly, it's the way we were meant to exercise. Our ancestors never adhered to a strict routine, they got their exercise through this, not because they wanted to, but because they had to. That said, make sure you can at least pull yourself up on a branch before beginning to climb trees, i.e. have some strength before you begin.

Thirdly, injuries are avoided. our bodies were designed to move this way; it's what we should be best at doing. Overuse injuries are almost non-existant, as if you get tired of running, you start climbing or crawling. Completely different movements. Other injuries are also greatly reduced, as the muscles learn to work together. And I'm not just talking about certain arm muscles. When crawling, your arms and legs learn to work together, and so on.

I think the natural method is better than weights for these reasons. Besides, if you absolutely cannot give up weights, Movnat involves lifting, carrying and throwing anyway, which is much more fun. If you honestly only care about looking good, continue, but remember you are giving your own training up for other people's attention, rather than your own personal health.