Topic: Talk Story - Pidgen, Gibberish, Ozzish you name it, Brah!!

[turtlekarma]

Just wanted to share my hiking experience this sat with CT.

Noon: We start up Manoa Falls Trail 0.8 miles
12:15pm: We reach the end of Manoa falls Trail and meet up at intersection of Aihualama Trail and Pauoa Flats Trail...CT and I head up Aihualama Trail as planned 1.3 miles
12:50pm We reach the end of Aihualama Trail and continue up Nu`uanu Trail 1.5 miles + 0.75 mile hike up to ridge line
2:20pm We reach the summit of the Nu'uanu ridge line...up in the clouds

From then until around 6pm we hike this gnarly "trail" that probably never receives any maintenance since it was made by some random trail blazers.  The ridge line in my estimate isn't much longer then 1.5 miles - 2 miles...but what made it difficult was the state of disrepair that the trail was in.  We must have gone up and down +12 peaks along the way.  the "trail" on average was barely visible 50% of the time...vegetation covered it or it had fallen off due to erosion, we had to backtrack multiple times due to the fact that anything that looked like a line could've been the trail.  CT lead most of the way since he had studied the trail before we went up...plus he wasn't gimped and I was starting to get dehydrated.  Most of the time we were in the clouds, so it was difficult to tell where the next hump or dip in the ridge line was, but honestly there was only one way to go and that was forwards.  The "trial" itself was at best 5in wide and at a extremely steep angle...most of the time it was better to step inside of the trail onto the thick vegetation since it had so many holes in it...holes that lead to a sheer idk 1000ft drop (bad guess idk how high we were up).  One time, I'm pretty sure I saved CT's life, by pulling him up after he slide off the edge and was just holding one to some random plants that happened to be there to grab...just like he saved mine by keeping me motivated.  We made 4-5 stops to collect ourselves physically and maybe more importantly mentally. 

6:00pm we finally make it to Wa'ahila ridge, at this point I know I'm dehidrated and probably will only physically deteriorate more and more if we continue...however my spirits were up, cause we survived the ridge trail and I could see the trail beneath my feet.  I call my friend and ask him to come pick us up at the Chinese cemetery in the back of manoa valley in 45mins, cause I know that when I'm done that I won't be able to drive.  oh and at this point we officially ran out of water.

6:45pmthe sun is starting to set and we are half way down Wa'ahila ridge 1.2 miles where we take a side trail into manoa valley.  it's a well kept trail that is very wide and slopes gently.  The down side is that it is covered in a thick canopy that doesn't let very much light in.  My friend calls me asking me where we are, his dad is with him a retired police officer.  We were supposed to be done by now..

7:30pmThe sun had set and visibility had dropped to 1-2ft...not enough to know where to put your feet and how to shift your weight.  To make matters worse, I was officially dehydrated and motor functioning started to deteriorate rapidly.  The trail was slopped and covered with roots and rocks randomly which made it challenging to traverse with my depth perception so bad due to fatigue and poor visibility.  I stumble more often then I find good footing, this was not due to a difficult trail, it was more that mentally and physically I was reaching my limit.  I don't know physically how good or bad CT was doing at this point, but I know he was exhausted more then was good and probably a little dehydrated.  The thought of having to continue in the morning wasn't far from our minds. 

8:00pmAt some point we lose the trail and stumble upon a stream that seems to be heading out of the valley, now the terrain is difficult...we fall into multiple pools of old collected rain water.  At this point my mental capacity is about that of a really tired 6 year old...I'm driven by three things. 
1.  Food and water
2.  Pride (i don't want to have anyone come and save me)
3.  CT
CT starts using his cell phone as a flash light...I try to copy, but I needed my gimped hand free to help me balance.  The terrain is like any stream that's no cleared, lots of boulders and dead/rotten foliage all around.  kind of like an wet obstacle course where some of the solid looking obstacles break when you try to put weight on them.  At this point CT becomes my cheerleader, and I basically try to keep my mouth shut because I know anything that I say wouldn't be helpful besides from the occasional thanks or letting CT know I need to rest.  My friend calls me to let me know that he and his dad will be waiting for me to call them if we needed someone to call fire & rescue, or if we finally make it out.

8:30pm We are taking a break to collect ourselves...at the pace we're going probably 100ft every 15-20mins.  We spot what looks like a house 50ft away (we weren't 100% sure cause foliage was so thick), we stumble towards it and knock on the back door and this guy in his mid 30's looks at us and asks us what we want.  He points us to the road and I tell him that he's a beautiful man with a beautiful house and a beautiful dog that wont stop barking at us.  My friend picks us up, we go to pick up my car which was still parked in manoa falls and we eat pizza.

moral of story...be better prepared.  Mentally an physically me and CT were ready for a 4 hour hike.  We didn't bring flash lights or food...and only he brought water.  I figure it was a 8-9mile hike...which in a straight line is nothing, but this was some of the most difficult terrain I've hiked.  At least me and CT did it and are closer from sharing the experience.  Honestly it was overall dumb to do it the way I did it...gimped arm, no water, food, or flashlights...and a very poor estimation of how long it would take.

[Derek Broussard]

 AWESOME!!!

 I LIVE FOR EXPERIANCES LIKE THAT

    Living life on the edge of death, trecking through the mountains, swiming through the depths of the ocean, defeating a clan of ninja assasins.... These are the type of experiances that build your character, morals, and self pride. NOT sitting at home and playing vgames or whatching tv.

 
  Things I would have done different.
 
      Water-  I usually trail run and will bring one water bottle with a water filter attached.   Amazon sells um for a good price   you want to make sure that it says it protects agains micro oraganism or pathogens as in your situation cryptosporidium could have killed you painfully if you drank from a bad stream or pond.

 Food isnt as important, we can go a very long time without food.

 head light would have been nice... but if you pack too much then it just gets rediculas,  my advice would be to practice/learn some survival skill so that you are more comfortable being "stuck" in the woods.
 

[Gregg]

JC could tell you about the joys of Lepto... if he was still active.
Glad you made it out ok. Thanks for sharing the story!

I've also learned the hard way about not packing enough water,
but I still do it.

[turtlekarma]

JC could tell you about the joys of Lepto... if he was still active.
Glad you made it out ok. Thanks for sharing the story!

I've also learned the hard way about not packing enough water,
but I still do it.

JC is active but his work blocked APK...tell us your story gregg!!!

And Derek, I think I should've either brought a power bar some something...8 hours with no food and constant physical activity is hard from me, I don't train that way.  My big mistake was eating a crappy breakfast...which included 1 malasada and 1 shrimp tempura with some water to drink.  but yeah, I'll show you the trail on a map if you like?  I think 6-7 hours in peak condition and with supplies should be doable...bring long pants and a wind breaker...maybe some rope...but CT and I didn't use any. 

[Nos0323]

hey o my gosh i noticed this today in the morning but....NOOOO i think im starting to get those calluoses things from me trying to perfect my cat balance whenever i go makiki park  Xp  i want my hands to stay soft and pretty  xD    were i get gloves???  i cant buy online though and parents have a habit of not trusting online shopping sooo yeah....

[Gregg]

JC was just telling me he had a VERY bad experience with Lepto. Fortunately, he didn't go into a lot of detail with me. I'm sure if you asked him nicely he could tell you, tho.

Oh - THAT story...
There's a section of the old hand-built King's Highway around the southern part of Maui. I didn't pack enough water, and I was on my own. I went far, fast, ran out of water and trail... I was way overheated and delusional. I still had to get back. I knew I was in trouble. Slowing down and splashing sea water wasn't helping. There were no people. I saw one lost cow, and it had the sense to be in shade.

I saw one junky shack. There was some water in a closed plastic pail. "Kitty Water" so you know it's going to be nasty, but at that point...

Anyway, I got down to 137 after drinking that... not sure how long it took to get all the parasites out of my system. Weeks of stomach aches.

---
@ Ji - get a good moisturizing lotion, like Jergens. You can remove callus from your hands, especially right after a hot shower - file or scrape it like giving yourself a full pedicure. Callus is your skins way of toughening, so it probably is from rails. No worries.

[Nos0323]

ooo good thing i got lotion  xD  but it looks ugly  Xp  does it leave scars??

and lol gross u actually drank that water???  i would have gone on without drinking it  Xp    i hate stomach aches

[turtlekarma]

ooo good thing i got lotion  xD  but it looks ugly  Xp  does it leave scars??

and lol gross u actually drank that water???  i would have gone on without drinking it  Xp    i hate stomach aches

ji, nobody has soft hands in pk...I don't know if you noticed, but we're not especially kind to our hands.  no scars unless you scab...but even then they aren't that noticeable.  lotion and smoothing out callus (grind down with sand, pumice stone, soak in water) works best...for keeping hands "pretty" and "soft." 

also, I doubt gregg would've drank the water if there was another way.  Heat exhaustion and dehydration can seriously damage internal organs or even kill... not liking stomach aches isn't a good reason to forgo water in a situation like gregg poses.  It was a gamble, but one that seems to have paid off since gregg isn't "that" crazy from drinking that water and he's still with us  .

[Sala]

@Gregg. Yea JC was like the all time expert on lepto ><
@Ji. But callused hands are like, the trademark of traceurs! Jen mentioned once about someone who described david belles hand after shaking it."Tough. Very, very tough" lmao

We(aiea traceurs) recently ventured down into the Aiea valley. We found a river, probably the Aiea stream. I drank from it. was really clear/clean it looked like. That was saturday. Im perfectly fine 0____0

Trail mix ftw!

Seriously when i go hiking all bring is like, salted nuts/dried fruits. or an MRE lmao. but those have crazy high sodium content >___<

[Gregg]

@ Ji: If you want your hands to go back to no callus, it doesn't take that long. No scars. As long as callus is flexible and soft, it's useful. If it's hard and cracky, and is pulling away from your skin, then it's past time for the pumice stone.

Kitty water: There was no choice, really. Drinking saltwater dehydrates you. I was already terribly dehydrated and overheated. There was no mud, no other water. There was no help for miles in any direction. If I had been in the exact same situation, I would drink the water. I think I would filter it better, but I wasn't exactly thinking clearly at the time

@ Ryan: the crazy isn't from drinking the water Thank you.

@ Sala: I think the David Belle interview said his hands were like linoleum.
You can pick up parasites and still feel ok. You're pretty healthy, so your body probably killed them off without you noticing.

I like hiking as light as possible. For a short hike, I'll load up on water before. Dried fruit/nuts are good. I like hiking where there's plenty guava, too. Then I get food + moisture, too.

[Nos0323]

@ Ji: If you want your hands to go back to no callus, it doesn't take that long. No scars. As long as callus is flexible and soft, it's useful. If it's hard and cracky, and is pulling away from your skin, then it's past time for the pumice stone.

ahh icic ok then i guess im ok with it  xD  lol but even then i still suck at cat balance haha

[Gregg]

I like cat crawl, but when people from Mainland come, they look at me funny. I think they do more rail walking/ balance.

[Nos0323]

I like cat crawl, but when people from Mainland come, they look at me funny. I think they do more rail walking/ balance.

ahhh icic

[Sala]

I<3 Guava. Especially up aiea loop trail where theres choooke.
or mountain apples >.< when i *cough* wander*cough a couple miles of trail and find them.

Regarding water purification. I know that the Iodine tablets are one way. Thats what we used when we hiked haleakala last year. Tasted terrible though Clean>Taste. Boiling.....meh...unless its on a lightweight stove i dont think itd be ok for me. I have a tendency to get out of control with open fires -___- bad experiences.

On the note of Iodine, does anyone know if you could just pour straight liquid iodine into the water and get the same purification effects as the tablests?

[Nos0323]

you can...i forget how many drops though..i think 4 drops of iodine??

[001 Raijin]

@Ji: If you really don't want to use lotions I suggest a good pair of harbinger fingerless gloves, real tough on the palms. I lost my right hand glove but that's okay, since my left hand glove is still around, it still protects the weaker hand.

@Sala: Hmm guava you say? I should keep my eyes open when I go sometime next week...

[Gregg]

Here's what I remember from the early days of HIpk. Ozzi, can you fill in the parts I wasn't there for?

Ryan: You've probably gotten the early history of HIpk from Ozzi? Keith, Beaner, Ozzi & Peter Parkour? I don't remember who else had tried it.

Geri caught "Jump Britain" on PBS when she was channel surfing. She called me over, and we sat on the floor and watched it. That was prob Nov 2006. I found APK early Feb 07, but there was a problem with it. You could register, but new people couldn't post. I wrote M2 and Demon, and the bug finally got fixed April 2.

The first things I remember vaulting were the hood of my Honda Accord, pop vaulting up a vegetation Dumpster, going up a 7' wall by loading dock at work, gate vault at work. My first injury was hamstring, from trying that wall without warming up. Second was ankle from landing kinda sideways after vaulting Honda. When you're older, healing takes a lot longer. I probably reinjured that ankle 3 or 4 times before I finally took off enough time to let it really heal.

There was NOBODY else on Hawaii forum. Frosti was the mod. I'd missed Lorin Ball visiting Maui Oct 06.
As a joke I took the nickname "btay" = Parkay is to butter like btay is to parkour.

I arrived in the island about 2 months ago. Coming from a breakdance and gymnastics background I decided to give PK a try and oh man, do I love this??? I am seriously looking for people to run around the island or just practice, create a OAHU PK CREW. I live in Kaneohe my only problem is that i dont have a car yet, but there is a playground close to my house very nice to practice at. I dont care if you are starting or if you are a pro at it already, I just wanna find people who love to push their body to the limit to try this exiting new sport. PLEASE hit me up. edited out email, phone Leave a message I usually dont answer unknown numbers, so leave a message I'll hit you back.

Aug 27 07 Ozzi made like 4 posts about a forum at kalakupua.com he was starting up. [No longer exists]
If I remember, it was a meet-up site, kinda like Craigslist personals. I don't remember if I made a reply there. I think I did - said I was on Maui and we just left it at that.

Sept 12 Ozzi posted

 Hey guys my friend and i created an official hawaii PK forum
 www.hawaiiparkour.com
 My nick there is urban disturbance hit me up lets practice.
 Ozzi_21@hotmial.com

Ozzi tried to get in touch with me, and missed me in teaching cert thread. I know we hooked up on .net and I eventually made it over to HawaiiParkour.com ... The forum was like brick red, with black writing, yellow and white. Some people said it was the most unreadable site.

Keith was admin, and already by the end of Sept Ozzi was the only one posting there. When I posted he told me the site was dead. Keith was no longer posting. I think he may have posted ONCE in the time I was on that forum. After talking, we decided to keep HawaiiParkour.com going until we either got Keith to give Ozzi admin rights or we got a new site up.

We couldn't get any help from Keith. Ozzi talked to [kaos from New England PK, currently SFPK?], and he set up HawaiiPK.com for us. First forum post was Dec 8, advertising the HIPK First Annual BBQ Bash. From spelling and grammar you could tell it was Ozzi post. 

This was the first post on front page of the new site:

Wednesday, 02 January 2008
Happy New Year
It's 2008. We've got a brand new site. The sun's shining. No, it's overcast. Shining. Raining. Whatevers. We live Hawaii.

We made the switch over Jan 4 2008. First 10 members were AdamMc, Ozzi, Richard "Peter Parkour", me, M2 [to say Hi], Urban Kung Fool from Pearl City, Drake Maddix [J Martinez 1 post], Oni [Shaun from the band BariBari 13, before he moved to Japan], Beaner [1 post], Chopsybobo [Avi 2 posts]

[turtlekarma]

...isn't one text wall bad enough? Seriously, Ryan

woah..thanks gregg tons of info here great dig!!!

okay now to respond about your idea about a talk story methodology...it won't work for my time frame.  If I had a year and some change to get it done, I think the talk story methodology you described would bring the richness of detail that I'm looking for out...but it's a slow process where the questions I'm concerned with addressing might take a while to get around to.  I have researched the talk story methodology, and it's development in Hawaii and other oral tradition cultures...it works, and it works even better when the "researcher" is apart of community like I am.  But it's extremely time consuming, not in the story telling, but the story analysis that I'd have to do.  I'm looking for patterns that expose themselves in discussions, from these patterns I make inferences on the phenomena I'm studying.  I'm trying to streamline the process, believe me if it were thesible I'd only use the talk story method. 

I think I have to be honest here...i won't get it right my first time, I will miss represent people and ideas...there will be conflicting time lines and what not.  Research is a process, i want to begin the process with understanding pk communities and what kind of people do pk by my project.  I'd like it to be a holistic look into our community.  And the ideas you've suggested are valuable...and I would like to implement them in my study design...but a time frame of two to three weeks wont work.  I mean I do use a bit of the talk story methodology, but that is more to satisfy my curiosity.  I want questions answered, so I need to be specific.   BUTTTT!!! I do want to get the best data I can...so I do appreciate your idea about story sharing and am willing to do it, but I just wanted to let you know that won't be my main method of getting info.  I'm refining my questions I'm going to send to you, I think it would be best for me to give you one question at a time, because they are so broad. 

[Gregg]

Talk story will work fine for some of your general questions... like the history of a scene, etc.
It's sitting around with a recorder and the leaders of the scene at supper. Then you only have 2 hours or so to analyze.

You're part of the HIpk scene, but you're also part of the other scenes, too. I still feel "researcher" is the wrong role, and that "talk story" is totally feasible. "Researcher" only takes, only observes. "Talk story" gives and takes.

Since you'll have HIpk done, use what you learn here to streamline the process. Use HIpk stuff as an example, so they can focus on what you want.

Seriously look at "Back of the Napkin" as a way to organize and present data. Think about using it as a way to record info too, especially things like timelines. If you've got 3 people sitting around with you, drawing on a napkin or scrap paper, you'll be able to flesh the WHEN out quickly.

Then you ask "Is this right?" Because you have several people giving feedback, your chances of error are way less.

It's not ALL going to be sitting around with a group. One to one can still be talking story. It's less formal, less clinical, but you can still ask the same questions.

Like, "I was inspired to start pk by watching "Jump Britain". A couple days later I started jumping things around work: gates, loading dock, my car... How did you start, and what was your early experience?" It's a guided question, because you're sharing your experience as a way to show them the kind of info you want. Then you can always ask for details or clarification. Does that make sense?

[turtlekarma]

Dude, you don't need to quote text walls. It only makes bigger text walls!

Gregg I googled "Back of the Napkin" and its a book?  are there PDF's I can download for free?  And as a researcher and a participant in the community, I want to give back by showing anyone who cares to look a snap shot of the HIPK community...I want to see how we're similar and different...how we coexist, and the underlying feeling of what PK however it is defined means to us.  I'll keep the talk story methodology in mind...how do you feel about my "interview" with you as the test pilot for it?  I can have my first "story" up by the end of this weekend.

hmmm, well how do you guys feel about me doing this project?  I'm curious...I know pretty much everyone I've talked to has been willing to let me interview them, so I'm guessing sharing your story isn't an issue...but just the fact that I'm "studying" our community does that bring up and feelings?  If there are neg's I'd like to discuss them and see how I can work to turn neg's into positives.  I'm talking about things like, what am I going to do with this information, how does my project benefit our community and individual people I work with...any thoughts