Author Topic: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet  (Read 1613 times)

Offline Charles Moreland

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My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« on: June 25, 2009, 09:43:16 AM »
I spend a lot of my time reading. A good deal of it actually, mostly in the forms of anatomy and physiology, nutrition, and exercise books. So recently, my focus has changed and I've been picking up books like In the Defense of Food or The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan, Deep Economy by BillMcKibben, Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser, or Food Inc. By Karl Weber.

Much has changed since reading most of these books. A severe shift in thinking has occurred for me. Can I buy healthy food from my local super-market? Several months ago, I would say yes with certainty. Now I'm not so sure. The real shift came with this however: How does buying this item of food affect not just me and my health, but my local community?

The reality is, most foods purchased at your super-market have traveled hundreds to thousands of miles to get to your mouth. Think about a mango. A mango is a very healthy and nutritious fruit...but why is this mango in upstate New York? It wasn't picked ripe, obviously. This mango came from Mexico...sometimes Chile! Chile is 5,000 miles away! Grapes too! Grapes from my super-market are from nowhere else but Chile, and they are always there.

I'm done with industrial agriculture which is why this Summer, my girlfriend and I have decided to take the Summer Pledge to only consume local produce within a 100 mi radius. We joined a local CSA (Community Supported Agriculture) and receive vegetables and fruit from local farmers, delivered to us weekly and scour our community's many weekly farmer's markets. We are given 1 exception a week, which we usually use to buy things like fairly-traded coffee, tea, raisins, or oatmeal. To follow is a list of food we've been eating and buying:

Dairy -
Raw milk cheese
Yogurt
Milk

Meats -
Venosin (okay so this wasn't exactly local but it is by far the leanest meat I have in the freezer currently)
Beef - all sorts of cuts - GRASS-FED and PASTURED

Vegetables -
Spinach
Carrots
Beets
Radishes
Cilantro
Red Romaine Lettuce
Kale
Turnips
Peas
Garlic
Boston Lettuce
Broccoli

Grain -
Whole Wheat flour

Eggs -
Pastured chicken eggs from a chicken farmer down the road

Fruits -
Strawberries
Apples
Blueberries (soon!)

Please follow us on our pledge! www.charlesmoreland.com and www.rochesterlocavore.blogspot.com

Offline hardcoretraceur

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 10:25:54 AM »
I envy you and hope that your push helps others to do the same
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Offline Grayson

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 10:50:14 AM »
Yah, I'm also doing this, my family has stopped buying from the grocery store and have started buying from the farmer's market.
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Offline Muse_of_Fire

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2009, 10:00:53 PM »
I try to stick to this as much as possible in the warmer months. In Wisconsin in winter, it's just not possible unless I want to be eating tubers and root vegetables for 9 months. I am trying to grow as much as I can this summer to preserve/freeze so I can make the summer last longer (on my plate at least), and then consume only what I can obtain from the local farmer's market during the summer.

I am fortunate to have 2 excellent farmer's markets per week in my community: the massive Dane County one each Saturday, and the even more localized one in my neighborhood each Thursday. They usually go from about April-October, so that's a good chunk of the year.

The 100-mile diet is a great philosophy and dovetails nicely with the Slow Food Movement. If you're not already familiar with that, it may interest you. Just a thought.

Enjoy the benefits and fun discoveries that come with paying close attention to where your food comes from!
She followed slowly, taking a long time,
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and yet: as though, once it was overcome,
she would be beyond all walking, and would fly.
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Offline Charles Moreland

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2009, 05:55:55 AM »
We have two restaurants in Rochester that are a part of the Slow Food movement. We go once a month because they have college student specials.

In conjunction with this, I will also be going through and doing as best as I can a cost-benefit analysis and a compare-contrast between the food items I am buying compared with before. I feel this will be an interesting way to see if the usual excuse "healthier food is more expensive" is valid or not.

Offline Muse_of_Fire

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2009, 06:46:10 AM »
In conjunction with this, I will also be going through and doing as best as I can a cost-benefit analysis and a compare-contrast between the food items I am buying compared with before. I feel this will be an interesting way to see if the usual excuse "healthier food is more expensive" is valid or not.

Hahaha. Having just read the big debate in the hot dog/cancer thread, this post makes me chuckle.

It will be interesting to see what your analysis comes up with. I will say this, though:

I am probably better off financially than a lot of people on this forum, since most are college kids. Being older, with a steady job and all that, I know it's comparatively easy for me to purchase and eat healthy food. However I still have to struggle and weigh the costs of everything in my budget (food, utilities, mortgage, car payment, insurance, blah blah blah). Given this I still cannot afford the most healthy food I want. I want very badly to eat only organic, free-range, grass-fed meat. It is certainly available in abundance where I live, but it is still 2-3x the cost. I could afford it if I made big adjustments to my budget; i.e. if I sold my car, among other things.

Let's actually take that as an example. If I got rid of my (super fuel-efficient) car, it would free up (car payment + insurance + gas) probably about $5-6k a year. That is money that could easily go into my food budget to pay for super-meat. I could buy a bike instead.

I work 40 miles away from where I live. So if I biked there, I would have to allow at least 4 hours for my commute (according to what Google tells me). This is one way. So I would be spending 8 hours a day at work, and 8 hours a day getting to/from work. I also would be consuming obnoxious amounts of calories and therefore would have to eat more, thereby making my food budget go up (could I still afford the awesome meat then? Maybe not.)

Okay, so I could sell my home and move to the community where I work. Definitely. The cost of living is cheaper there, it would make biking or running to work a breeze, I would save a lot and then could afford super-meat.

Except that the only place to purchase super-meat is back in the city I currently live in, 40 miles away. The supermarkets where I work are all national chain places that sell industrial meat. I suppose a once-a-week trip in to buy groceries would be okay, but then I'd have to have a car. I would save on gas, surely, but the monthly payment and insurance costs would effectively eliminate my "meat savings" from having sold the car.

Also, given certain others of my values that are as strong as my value on healthy living, I would not be satisfied living in the town where I work. There are certain things I need in my life (access to cultural events, music, dance, etc.) that are difficult to quantify and non-negotiable for me. They are essential to my quality of life and what is important to me, so that I would have a lesser quality of life living in the town where I work (where these things aren't available), even if by doing so I could eat super-meat.

What it boils down to is a CBA. Yes, I could make adjustments to my life to eat exclusively the finest organic, small farm-raised, grass-fed, free-range meats from my local area. But in doing so I would have to make sacrifices in other aspects that contribute as much to my quality of life as healthy food does. Since I have access to these kinds of foods via my local farmer's market and the many "slow food" restaurants in my area, I can make them a big part of my diet, but I cannot afford to make my diet exclusively that, without cutting out other things I value from elsewhere. So I make compromises. Certain foods (eggs & milk always, some meats when I can afford them) I buy direct from small family farms, or from reputable, "green" national producers. Fruits and vegetables are a mix of industrial and organic, depending on what's available and what the price is. It is definitely easier for me in the warmer months given the climate where I live.

But, healthy food of the type you're advocating is more expensive. There is no need to really do a study to figure that out. The long-term costs of this food vs. health care costs over a person's lifetime can make a good argument, but one that only matters if the person is in poor health. I can maintain my health with a mix of industrial and organic, by making individual choices at the supermarket, so I try where I can, but the level of sacrifice I would need to make to be able to have such an ideal diet is not worth the margin of benefit I would get out of it. In other words, it's a point of diminishing returns.

These things are not linear, they are complex systems: cut out a cost in one place to free up money in another has effects in yet other areas of life. Cut out a cost in another place to free up money for healthier food can provide great benefits, but are those benefits worth the sacrifice necessary to attain them. For me, it's not worth it. I am a huge advocate of slow food, 100-mile diet, and related ideas. I do what I can to help them along and have sacrificed a lot of modern conveniences compared to the average American to make them a part of my life. But I am not in a position to comfortably make them the whole of my life. I know very few people who are. If you are one such person, who can name exactly where every single food item in your kitchen comes from, you are exceedingly lucky.

For someone to say, "healthier food is more expensive" and use that to dismiss healthy eating out of hand is silly, I agree. But very, very few people can afford to eat the kind of optimized diet you advocate. Yes, a massive shift in the economy is necessary, and that needs to be consumer-driven. But it won't happen overnight. It would impact SO many other factors if American families just all woke up one morning and shifted the bulk of their monthly budgets to food. It would have far-reaching negative impacts to go along with its positive ones. Take heart in the fact that the change is happening, even if it's happening more slowly than you might like. People ARE starting to eat better, and are making the sacrifices where they can. Most health-conscious people take the statement, "Healthier food is more expensive" and change it to, "Healthier food is more expensive, but I am willing to pay the extra money in certain areas where it makes sense in the larger picture of my life to do so. However I cannot afford, not without great sacrifice that I am unwilling to make, to make a complete shift to 100% super-food. Not yet."  :)

« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 06:50:03 AM by Muse_of_Fire »
She followed slowly, taking a long time,
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and yet: as though, once it was overcome,
she would be beyond all walking, and would fly.
--excerpt from Going Blind, Rainer Maria Rilke

www.madisonparkour.com

Offline Charles Moreland

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2009, 07:44:25 AM »
Thanks for your reply, Muse. I always enjoy hearing your opinions.

To respond, I think you may have misinterpreted the diet I'm advocating. Just because I'm not purchasing products grown further than 100 miles does not mean I think this is the only way to eat. I can assure you that when October rolls around, I will be more than happy to buy "luxury" items like chocolate, raisins, nuts, or oatmeal.

I'm not attempting to promote extremism but rather options. Most people don't know how to get food outside of their local super-market. Take my segment on yogurt for example. Here is an option available to me that is not only on par, if not better, than a national competitor like Stonyfield, but it's also cheaper. I save a dime, get a great quality product, and support my local farmer.

The experiment isn't to suggest that you only purchase the highest quality food available to you. It's to make a push toward your kind of thinking: options. How much could I be buying at the farmers market? What is the difference? If the difference is a few cents, I'd urge you to make the local choice. If the difference is a few dollars...well now it's in your hands and your personal judgement.

Could you sell your car and make a complete switch? Sure. But that's not what I'm advocating. I'm advocating the thought process that thinks about edible options throughout your entire community, not just the super-market. And if that thought process leads you to buy an item from the super-market then that's dandy. It is the best fit for you. But if you confine yourself to just the super-market, then you are missing out on a huge variety of options that have their own pro's and con's.

My cost-benefit analysis will never be thorough enough to persuade anyone to fully switch to a 100 mile diet, unless the person reading my analysis also lives in Rochester. The options available to me here are completely opposite from someone living in Nevada, or Florida.

But by focusing on region, what can I conclude? Well, I live in cow country which means there must be a huge variety of options of cheeses, milk, beef, yogurt, and other dairy products. This may also suggest that it will not be as expensive. For example, grass-fed beef for me is just under 2x as expensive as the super-market alternative. For someone like Chris, it's 3 or 4x. Grass-fed may not be an option based on budget.

I should have explained further that that last quoted sentence was a personal statement, not a global one, specifically for this region. Many of my friends tell me they cannot afford my lifestyle, and yet most of them eat out at restaurants 3-4 times a week. The statement doesn't hold true for every demographic.

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2009, 08:05:10 AM »
I'm still a bit confused.  If you are only doing this for 3 months then what exactly is your goal with this experiment?

Any proposed benefits (economic, socially, environmentally, nutritionally, etc), known or unknown, are understood to be long term. Three months clearly is not enough time to have any sort of impact in any of the domains to which there is an understood benefit.

The only thing I can think of is that you want personal experience with eating locally so you can make a first-hand judgment as to how hard or easy it is to eat local, high quality foods.  Is that the case?  Maybe a first-hand understanding of the difficulty will make it easier for you to tone down the approach into a more practical method?

I am just hoping that you can shed light on this to clear up my confusion as to your motive since, according to your last post, it is not for any of the benefits you argue for in our other discussions.  It may help to understand and share your motives for any similar experiments I may want to perform.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 08:06:45 AM by Chris Salvato »
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Offline Muse_of_Fire

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2009, 08:12:27 AM »
Ah. Well then we are closer in our thinking that I previously thought. Understand that my original assumption was based on your responses in the hot dog thread; which (to be fair) did seem to turn on a hair-splitting difference in perspective between you & Chris.

Chris, I for one only stick to this 100-mile thing (as best I can given my financial reality) from about April-October, because of my climate. For me it's a matter of at least having access to higher quality food for part of the year, and making do in the winter time. I suspect that's Charles' motivation as well, but I won't speak for him.

It is good to point out these options and benefits because I agree, most people aren't even aware that it's an option or that they can get their meat from a butcher rather than the supermarket, or from a local farmer directly. At least making people aware of it so they can make the decisions that make the most sense to them is a good thing.

But then if raising awareness is the primary motivation, I suppose it makes a lot of the argumentation in the hot dog thread a bit moot, since we all seem to agree that natural foods are ideal, and that one should buy and obtain them to the greatest extent one is able (read: not exclusively or extremely, but sensibly for each one's individual circumstances).

Amirite?

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Offline hardcoretraceur

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2009, 09:49:59 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azV5bC2br-Q - check out 1:00+

I think if we can effectively maneuver a crew of highly trained tornado wranglers we can make the 100 mile diet the only option.
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Offline Charles Moreland

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2009, 11:41:49 AM »
The experiment is the pledge, Chris. For 5 months I will restrict myself from anything not within 100 miles. If you suspect that after October, I will continue to shop the way I did a year ago then you are mistaken. In the winter, things like collard greens become more available and more of my vegetable needs will be satisfied that way. Because of the climate I live in, winter makes things hard on everyone, and the meat I buy will become more scarce and definitely higher in price. My dairy farmers will be still be going, but again, price will probably climb. I will continue to buy from them out of personal reasons, reasons I don't expect others to share but it is a decision based on my costs and budget that I have made.

The arguments placed in the hot dog thread are unique to meat. We are omnivores and are capable of consuming vegetables and meat. The two are distinctly different not just in composition, but in their respective roles amongst the food chain. Vegetables are relatively simple because they are ranked lower. Grow kale outside and give it dirt, sunlight, and water and typically you will have very little difference from one to the other. When clients ask me for dietary advice, I still point them in the direction of the super-market produce isle.

Cows are more complicated because their dietary history suddenly becomes important. If you take out dirt or water or sunlight from the equation, chances are your kale won't grow. Feed a cow grass or feed a cow grain, it will continue to be a cow, but with distinct differences in the same way my bodily composition is different than yours not only because of genetics but also because of our differences in diet. This is why meat is important enough to care more about than our vegetables. The differences between kale found at my super-market and kale found in the farmers market or my back yard is not very significant. The difference between the grass-fed beef I buy and the difference between that at the super-market is significant.

I said that grass-fed beef was healthier and you agreed. You also said that buying grain-fed beef from the supermarket with omega-3 supplementation was a viable compromise. I gave my opinion otherwise, and you did the same. Neither of us presented research to defend our opinions so they stayed as opinions which is why I began to delve more into other reasons why I buy grass-fed. If you do not care about your local economy, local farmer, or the carbon foot-print tagged with Big-meat then that is your choice. Doesn't change my opinion of you considering I'm talking to you right now on AIM  ;P

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2009, 12:19:11 PM »
The experiment is the pledge, Chris. For 5 months I will restrict myself from anything not within 100 miles. If you suspect that after October, I will continue to shop the way I did a year ago then you are mistaken. In the winter, things like collard greens become more available and more of my vegetable needs will be satisfied that way. Because of the climate I live in, winter makes things hard on everyone, and the meat I buy will become more scarce and definitely higher in price. My dairy farmers will be still be going, but again, price will probably climb. I will continue to buy from them out of personal reasons, reasons I don't expect others to share but it is a decision based on my costs and budget that I have made.

The arguments placed in the hot dog thread are unique to meat. We are omnivores and are capable of consuming vegetables and meat. The two are distinctly different not just in composition, but in their respective roles amongst the food chain. Vegetables are relatively simple because they are ranked lower. Grow kale outside and give it dirt, sunlight, and water and typically you will have very little difference from one to the other. When clients ask me for dietary advice, I still point them in the direction of the super-market produce isle.

Cows are more complicated because their dietary history suddenly becomes important. If you take out dirt or water or sunlight from the equation, chances are your kale won't grow. Feed a cow grass or feed a cow grain, it will continue to be a cow, but with distinct differences in the same way my bodily composition is different than yours not only because of genetics but also because of our differences in diet. This is why meat is important enough to care more about than our vegetables. The differences between kale found at my super-market and kale found in the farmers market or my back yard is not very significant. The difference between the grass-fed beef I buy and the difference between that at the super-market is significant.

I said that grass-fed beef was healthier and you agreed. You also said that buying grain-fed beef from the supermarket with omega-3 supplementation was a viable compromise. I gave my opinion otherwise, and you did the same. Neither of us presented research to defend our opinions so they stayed as opinions which is why I began to delve more into other reasons why I buy grass-fed. If you do not care about your local economy, local farmer, or the carbon foot-print tagged with Big-meat then that is your choice. Doesn't change my opinion of you considering I'm talking to you right now on AIM  ;P

Based on your last post, it seemed your goal with this pledge had been to go for 5 months and then return to a more reasonable way of shopping.  I based that on this comment (along with the tone of the rest of the post):

To respond, I think you may have misinterpreted the diet I'm advocating. Just because I'm not purchasing products grown further than 100 miles does not mean I think this is the only way to eat. I can assure you that when October rolls around, I will be more than happy to buy "luxury" items like chocolate, raisins, nuts, or oatmeal.

That said, i still think that it may not be the best option to tell your clients that they should buy grassfed.  I would probably say "Grassfed is best but you can do well for yourself with grainfed+fish oil.  I personally buy only grassfed when possible because I believe it is that much better, though.  Check with your doctor before changing your diet based on my advice."  But, hey, that's me.
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Offline Charles Moreland

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2009, 12:22:48 PM »
If you believe that I only recommend grass-fed to my clients without giving them all the potential options then I don't think you know me too well.

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2009, 12:32:53 PM »
If you believe that I only recommend grass-fed to my clients without giving them all the potential options then I don't think you know me too well.

Based on your second post, I guess I misunderstood.

The grass-fed option is NOT the alternative; your recommendation is. Grain-fed beef + fish oil does not equal grass-fed beef. I'm sorry, but this is a fallacy.

I guess i misinterpreted what you were saying to mean that grassfed is the best option for all - and anything else is a compromise/alternative.
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Offline Muse_of_Fire

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2009, 03:50:06 PM »
When I am talking to people about organic food in general, and they talk about the price, I usually encourage people (if they are leaning towards organic) to choose to spend their "organic" budget on animal products rather than vegetables, for the reasons you mention, Charles, about the complexity of the cow vs. the vegetable. I was conflating meat & veggies in your argument here, and applying it to the hot dog thread, mainly because I was blurring the line between grass-fed/organic & the 100-mile diet.

I should have kept in mind that there is more to the 100-mile diet besides organic. There are plenty of farmers around me that are within the 100-mile radius who are patently NOT organic. But then again, dairy is big business here in Wisconsin, so... yeah. The 100-mile diet has more to do with slow food, eating seasonally, and the carbon footprint/economic inequities that are the result of industrial farming. However buying local from family farms does quite often have a side benefit of providing organic/sensibly fed livestock (which is probably why I conflated the two ideas to begin with). :)

I think Q Manimal is onto something, there, with his tornado wrangler idea! :P  :-*
She followed slowly, taking a long time,
as though there were some obstacle in the way;
and yet: as though, once it was overcome,
she would be beyond all walking, and would fly.
--excerpt from Going Blind, Rainer Maria Rilke

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Offline Charles Moreland

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2009, 05:39:29 AM »
Actually this is a really interesting aside Muse. Most of the farmers I buy from are, in fact, organic but are not certified. In the case of my beef farmer, he actually had to start blocking out the quote on his label, "The grass is the difference," because the USDA wanted money from him to be certified. His family has been raising grass-fed natural cattle for over a hundred years and decided against paying.

It takes some investigative work, but I would say a large handful of farmers at my market are organic and choose not to be certified.

Offline Patrick Yang

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2009, 06:12:24 AM »
I found that's true with several vendors at the Austin farmer's market as well, Charles.
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Offline tombb

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2009, 08:39:52 AM »
Grow kale outside and give it dirt, sunlight, and water and typically you will have very little difference from one to the other...
Cows are more complicated because their dietary history suddenly becomes important. If you take out dirt or water or sunlight from the equation, chances are your kale won't grow. Feed a cow grass or feed a cow grain, it will continue to be a cow, but with distinct differences in the same way my bodily composition is different than yours not only because of genetics but also because of our differences in diet. This is why meat is important enough to care more about than our vegetables. The differences between kale found at my super-market and kale found in the farmers market or my back yard is not very significant. The difference between the grass-fed beef I buy and the difference between that at the super-market is significant.

I thought you might be interested to know that this is actually not the case, meaning that there can be huge differences in vegetable crops grown differently, and historically these have actually caused plenty of deaths from malnutrition. A perfect example is maize (the corn you make popcorn from), which the native americans knew how to grow in specially treated soil (made more basic/alkaline) so as to make it sufficiently nourishing, but the american colonists didn't and therefore died in droves from malnutrition. (they could have asked them and avoided malnutrition epidemics, if they just took the time to start cultural exchanges instead of being so busy colonizing and fighting them... ::) )
Just look up corn and Pellagra.

Soil itself can have huge differences, especially in ones that have been depleted of more rare micronutrients (all-important Molybdenum, Nickel etc, just look up plant nutrition). And science has really made huge progress on adding back these types of micronutrients that you wouldn't get by conventional agricultural fertilization, and obtaining amazing results in improved nutrition, size, and health of the crops.
So this actually often moves things in favor of large-scale farming and things like Hydroponic rather than local farmers with limited knowledge of all these advances developed over centuries of progress.

Same goes for differences and scientific progress in biocontrol to prevent infestation by mold or parasites with science in ways that are more green than the antiquate ways of pesticides or "organic" farming etc. One example of this is Chitosan for example.

Aside from that, it's good to try experiments and make pledges to yourself, but I hope your reading hasn't been too biased and that you will try to balance it by actively seeking the most valid arguments on all sides of each issue. Even the best ideas and solutions can still produce the occasional counterproductive or problematic behaviors, especially when maybe greed and bad economical foresight take a hold of them. But usually it's best to work on reducing these side problems while still preserving a good idea, by using regulations/legislations and applied science and technology.
Specifically, if you take some more time to look into it, you might realize that globalization is awesome on a ton of levels, including preservation or improvement of ecology, improvements on global economy, peace, education etc. Clearly there are people that do some stupid things for profit with it, moving around resources in unnecessary and damaging ways etc. It's fine to make even personal choices on those, just be careful not to generalize too much or take things to extremes, just like you wouldn't want to ban teaching math and science because some unscrupulous industrialists used it to pollute a lake near them.  Often that same math and science is exactly how you can keep lakes even cleaner and technology can often convince even greedy industrialists to do the right things, by making it more cost-effective than the alternative for them.

edit: fixed a url code
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 08:49:39 AM by tombb »

Offline Charles Moreland

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2009, 09:23:08 AM »
ah awesome. I was just posting to ask you to do so. I will read these and edit this post after I am done.

Alright. So, perhaps in the future I should revise my communication because I consider a hydroponic grower a "farmer." Based on your reply, perhaps this isn't the case for everyone. Hydroponics can be just as feasible an option as their traditional brother. In fact, most of the fresh greens I buy come from this local source.

In reference to organics, I apologize if I ever came off in a way that suggested organic was better than alternative methods because I know this is not always the case. However thanks for the link to Chitosan because I had never learned of this before and I found the read enlightening.

Quote
So this actually often moves things in favor of large-scale farming and things like Hydroponic rather than local farmers with limited knowledge of all these advances developed over centuries of progress.

I like your presentation to me, however, I would respectfully ask you to not make statements such as this. Hydroponics, in my case, IS a local source of fresh produce and you have no knowledge about the farmers and their knowledge in regards to farming. As you said, the native americans were effective in their growing method, and I'm sure they had no idea about micro-nutrients such as the ones you presented. However, if you have a source that illustrates the differences in nutritional content from a conventionally grown spinach (along the same guidelines you recommended) and a hydroponically grown spinach, I will give it audience. It seems like since the hydroponics I buy aren't all that expensive anyways, it would be good to know how much of a nutritional difference this choice is.

If you would like to extrapolate on the concepts in your final two paragraphs, perhaps it would be better to PM me. Look forward to hearing from you.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 09:53:43 AM by Charles Moreland »

Offline Cameron Scott

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Re: My Summer Pledge - The 100 mile diet
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2009, 08:10:54 PM »
I'm still "discovering" the forums and just read this thread.  Congratulations on embarking on this journey!!!  I think we all would benefit from trying something like this and every time I hear of someone else trying it I reevaluate the ways I can get closer to it myself.  I'm a huge fan of the books you mentioned in your original post and I'm thrilled (though in retrospect not surprised) to find kindred spirits in these forums!!!

I've just started parkour less than two months ago but I've already found that it has made me much more aware of what I'm eating and how that affects everything else in my life. 

I'll stay on the thread topic though, kudos to you. =)