Topic: Soy

[FastGuppy]

Why do people hate it so much?  I don't have any of it but I don't understand what's so bad about it.

[tombb]

use the search function, we had a few threads on this already.

Nothing bad about soy. It's a very good legume, but in its pure form it has some stuff that interferes a lot with its absorption. It also has other naturally occurring stuff that can be good for health in some cases but also not so good in excess. For example it can help women's hormonal balance so for a while people thought it might be bad for men's testosterone levels but that turned out to be false.
If you have it as a normal vegetable rotated in your diet it's fine, and also as soy protein isolate it's a very good and cheap protein supplement almost as good as whey and it's not coming with all that extra stuff in that form.

[FastGuppy]

I haven't found many in-depth threads on soy so I was curious. Forgive me for sounding naive but what products are pure soy? Soy milk? Also someone said whole milk has more growth hormones so I should avoid it? I have a feeling this is false. Can you confirm?

[tombb]

I haven't found many in-depth threads on soy so I was curious. Forgive me for sounding naive but what products are pure soy? Soy milk? Also someone said whole milk has more growth hormones so I should avoid it? I have a feeling this is false. Can you confirm?

By pure soy I mean normal soy. It's green, and looks like a bean, usually inside a peapod like shell, and you eat it. It's pretty tasty steamed or boiled with some salt. In japan it's also called edamame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Edamame_by_Zesmerelda_in_Chicago.jpg
I personally find soy milk disgusting, but that would be an in-between thing. But basically things with just soy-protein are much better as supplements than things make from some processing or another of soy just because you might get a lot of stuff you don't necessarily want, like extra fat (which would taste better from other foods) etc. Also personally I find soy milk tastes terrible compared to something delicious to me like skim milk, or even in general, and other stuff made with soy, like tofu etc also doesn't taste as good as something made with just soy protein isolates or even just the plain, normal soy bean used as a normal vegetable.

And on the milk, seriously, use the search function  there's a thread on that specific question right on the same page as this thread:
http://www.americanparkour.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,159/topic,17373.msg202346/#msg202346
and the answer is that no, that's a myth, there is no risk of getting strange hormonal effects from drinking milk, at all, as I explain in that thread.

[Sat Santokh]

Just a fun fact, up until the mid 90's soy was dog food!  I can't remember where I read that so don't take it as a cited source.  I personally believe that the soy industry is just as bad as the sugar industry.

[tombb]

Just a fun fact, up until the mid 90's soy was dog food!  I can't remember where I read that so don't take it as a cited source.  I personally believe that the soy industry is just as bad as the sugar industry.

Well chicken, beef, fish, vegetables and milk are also in dog foods, but I don't think that the logical consequence is that they must be somehow bad...

Plus that's cultural since soy has been a staple of human nutrition for a large part of the population since ancient times, just like things like rice and more so than meat (for civilization-related reasons, not everybody could afford to find or buy meat or lived near sources of it, whereas rice could be grown year after year in the same field and stores very well).

I think you should be more upset about the strawberry industry, they are just as bad as the lettuce industry!

[Chris Salvato]

Plus that's cultural since soy has been a staple of human nutrition for a large part of the population since ancient times, just like things like rice and more so than meat (for civilization-related reasons, not everybody could afford to find or buy meat or lived near sources of it, whereas rice could be grown year after year in the same field and stores very well).

Well, to put that into context, soy has been a PART of the ASIAN diet for a large part of their history...as a condiment not as a staple.  Asians have also been eating rice for millenia which is why they are more carb tolerant.

Saying Soy (particularly the unfermented soy found in most american foods) has been a staple in the diet since ancient times is like saying that mustard is a staple in the modern american diet...a bit of a stretch.

[Andy Animus Tran]

Asian soy products taste better, anyhow.

But.. the most recent research has shown that soy isn't as "dangerous" as thought for athletes, bodybuilders, lifters, etc.  But, like anything, I wouldn't base my entire diet off of it.

[Patrick Yang]

Asian soy products taste better, anyhow.

No kidding.  American-made soymilk and tofu just doesn't taste as good for some reason.  Not to mention the confusing idea in American society that soymilk is a substitute for milk, or that tofu is a substitute for meat.  They're great foods in themselves.

[FastGuppy]

I haven't found many in-depth threads on soy so I was curious. Forgive me for sounding naive but what products are pure soy? Soy milk? Also someone said whole milk has more growth hormones so I should avoid it? I have a feeling this is false. Can you confirm?

By pure soy I mean normal soy. It's green, and looks like a bean, usually inside a peapod like shell, and you eat it. It's pretty tasty steamed or boiled with some salt. In japan it's also called edamame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Edamame_by_Zesmerelda_in_Chicago.jpg
I personally find soy milk disgusting, but that would be an in-between thing. But basically things with just soy-protein are much better as supplements than things make from some processing or another of soy just because you might get a lot of stuff you don't necessarily want, like extra fat (which would taste better from other foods) etc. Also personally I find soy milk tastes terrible compared to something delicious to me like skim milk, or even in general, and other stuff made with soy, like tofu etc also doesn't taste as good as something made with just soy protein isolates or even just the plain, normal soy bean used as a normal vegetable.

And on the milk, seriously, use the search function  there's a thread on that specific question right on the same page as this thread:
http://www.americanparkour.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,159/topic,17373.msg202346/#msg202346
and the answer is that no, that's a myth, there is no risk of getting strange hormonal effects from drinking milk, at all, as I explain in that thread.

Some nutritionist told me whole milk had more hormones from steroids than skim so I should stay away from it. The thread you gave me was milk in general but it did answer my question kind of.

[edgey]

I haven't found many in-depth threads on soy so I was curious. Forgive me for sounding naive but what products are pure soy? Soy milk? Also someone said whole milk has more growth hormones so I should avoid it? I have a feeling this is false. Can you confirm?

By pure soy I mean normal soy. It's green, and looks like a bean, usually inside a peapod like shell, and you eat it. It's pretty tasty steamed or boiled with some salt. In japan it's also called edamame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Edamame_by_Zesmerelda_in_Chicago.jpg
I personally find soy milk disgusting, but that would be an in-between thing. But basically things with just soy-protein are much better as supplements than things make from some processing or another of soy just because you might get a lot of stuff you don't necessarily want, like extra fat (which would taste better from other foods) etc. Also personally I find soy milk tastes terrible compared to something delicious to me like skim milk, or even in general, and other stuff made with soy, like tofu etc also doesn't taste as good as something made with just soy protein isolates or even just the plain, normal soy bean used as a normal vegetable.

And on the milk, seriously, use the search function  there's a thread on that specific question right on the same page as this thread:
http://www.americanparkour.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,159/topic,17373.msg202346/#msg202346
and the answer is that no, that's a myth, there is no risk of getting strange hormonal effects from drinking milk, at all, as I explain in that thread.

Some nutritionist told me whole milk had more hormones from steroids than skim so I should stay away from it. The thread you gave me was milk in general but it did answer my question kind of.

if your trying to gain weight, drink whole milk. If your trying to lose weight, drink 2% or less.

[Steven Low]

I haven't found many in-depth threads on soy so I was curious. Forgive me for sounding naive but what products are pure soy? Soy milk? Also someone said whole milk has more growth hormones so I should avoid it? I have a feeling this is false. Can you confirm?

By pure soy I mean normal soy. It's green, and looks like a bean, usually inside a peapod like shell, and you eat it. It's pretty tasty steamed or boiled with some salt. In japan it's also called edamame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Edamame_by_Zesmerelda_in_Chicago.jpg
I personally find soy milk disgusting, but that would be an in-between thing. But basically things with just soy-protein are much better as supplements than things make from some processing or another of soy just because you might get a lot of stuff you don't necessarily want, like extra fat (which would taste better from other foods) etc. Also personally I find soy milk tastes terrible compared to something delicious to me like skim milk, or even in general, and other stuff made with soy, like tofu etc also doesn't taste as good as something made with just soy protein isolates or even just the plain, normal soy bean used as a normal vegetable.

And on the milk, seriously, use the search function  there's a thread on that specific question right on the same page as this thread:
http://www.americanparkour.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,159/topic,17373.msg202346/#msg202346
and the answer is that no, that's a myth, there is no risk of getting strange hormonal effects from drinking milk, at all, as I explain in that thread.

Some nutritionist told me whole milk had more hormones from steroids than skim so I should stay away from it. The thread you gave me was milk in general but it did answer my question kind of.

if your trying to gain weight, drink whole milk. If your trying to lose weight, drink 2% or less.

If you're trying to gain weight drink whole milk. If you're trying to lose weight don't drink milk and eat healthy. Or drink whole milk and eat a bit less but still healthy.

No reason to drink skin or 2% really...

[edgey]

I haven't found many in-depth threads on soy so I was curious. Forgive me for sounding naive but what products are pure soy? Soy milk? Also someone said whole milk has more growth hormones so I should avoid it? I have a feeling this is false. Can you confirm?

By pure soy I mean normal soy. It's green, and looks like a bean, usually inside a peapod like shell, and you eat it. It's pretty tasty steamed or boiled with some salt. In japan it's also called edamame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Edamame_by_Zesmerelda_in_Chicago.jpg
I personally find soy milk disgusting, but that would be an in-between thing. But basically things with just soy-protein are much better as supplements than things make from some processing or another of soy just because you might get a lot of stuff you don't necessarily want, like extra fat (which would taste better from other foods) etc. Also personally I find soy milk tastes terrible compared to something delicious to me like skim milk, or even in general, and other stuff made with soy, like tofu etc also doesn't taste as good as something made with just soy protein isolates or even just the plain, normal soy bean used as a normal vegetable.

And on the milk, seriously, use the search function  there's a thread on that specific question right on the same page as this thread:
http://www.americanparkour.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,159/topic,17373.msg202346/#msg202346
and the answer is that no, that's a myth, there is no risk of getting strange hormonal effects from drinking milk, at all, as I explain in that thread.

Some nutritionist told me whole milk had more hormones from steroids than skim so I should stay away from it. The thread you gave me was milk in general but it did answer my question kind of.

if your trying to gain weight, drink whole milk. If your trying to lose weight, drink 2% or less.

If you're trying to gain weight drink whole milk. If you're trying to lose weight don't drink milk and eat healthy. Or drink whole milk and eat a bit less but still healthy.

No reason to drink skin or 2% really...

Ok thanks for the correction Steve.

[tombb]

I haven't found many in-depth threads on soy so I was curious. Forgive me for sounding naive but what products are pure soy? Soy milk? Also someone said whole milk has more growth hormones so I should avoid it? I have a feeling this is false. Can you confirm?

By pure soy I mean normal soy. It's green, and looks like a bean, usually inside a peapod like shell, and you eat it. It's pretty tasty steamed or boiled with some salt. In japan it's also called edamame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Edamame_by_Zesmerelda_in_Chicago.jpg
I personally find soy milk disgusting, but that would be an in-between thing. But basically things with just soy-protein are much better as supplements than things make from some processing or another of soy just because you might get a lot of stuff you don't necessarily want, like extra fat (which would taste better from other foods) etc. Also personally I find soy milk tastes terrible compared to something delicious to me like skim milk, or even in general, and other stuff made with soy, like tofu etc also doesn't taste as good as something made with just soy protein isolates or even just the plain, normal soy bean used as a normal vegetable.

And on the milk, seriously, use the search function  there's a thread on that specific question right on the same page as this thread:
http://www.americanparkour.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,159/topic,17373.msg202346/#msg202346
and the answer is that no, that's a myth, there is no risk of getting strange hormonal effects from drinking milk, at all, as I explain in that thread.

Some nutritionist told me whole milk had more hormones from steroids than skim so I should stay away from it. The thread you gave me was milk in general but it did answer my question kind of.

What I said in the other thread applies to all milk, whole or skim, quoting from my post there:

Milk has always contained natural bovine growth hormones (BST) in very small amounts. Some dairy producers administer the synthetic version of this hormone (rBST) to increase milk production. However, FDA has concluded that milk produced by treated and untreated cows is exactly the same. Ninety percent of these hormones are destroyed with pasteurization. The remaining trace amounts are broken down into inactive fragments in the gut. Both hormones are “cow specific” and have no effect on the human body.(1)

If you're trying to gain weight drink whole milk. If you're trying to lose weight don't drink milk and eat healthy. Or drink whole milk and eat a bit less but still healthy.

No reason to drink skin or 2% really...

That's only an argument based on taste, assuming someone really -only- likes whole milk, which I am assuming is the case for you.

If you like skim milk and not whole milk, instead, there's no reason to drink whole milk, at all. You can have skim milk and if you want butter just add it in places where it's more tasty, like on vegetables or pasta or toast etc. 
To people who don't like the taste of whole milk, whole milk is like putting butter in your drink, which is pointless since things will still be digested together anyways.

[Chris Salvato]

i suppose...from a practical perspective, though, Steve's approach makes a bit more sense. 

If you are trying to gain weight you want to eat as much as you can so packing your milk full of calories is much more beneficial than skim for a host of reasons both physiological and psychological. 

If you are trying to lose weight then you typically want to eat less so beverages are better off being water, imho, from a practical perspective.

If you REALLY know what you are doing and you are REALLY disciplined then, of course, it doesn't matter...though it would be easier to acheive your goal as outlined above.

[RandJordan]

If you REALLY know what you are doing and you are REALLY disciplined then, of course, it doesn't matter...though it would be easier to acheive your goal as outlined above.

Ahh. Temptation :/

[edgey]

If you REALLY know what you are doing and you are REALLY disciplined then, of course, it doesn't matter...though it would be easier to acheive your goal as outlined above.

Ahh. Temptation :/

It's a bitch aint it?  Oh crap that's 5 dive bomber pushups for swearing.

[FastGuppy]

I use whole milk with ovaltine right after workouts and with my protein shakes. Skim I drink with dinner.

[Charles Moreland]

There's also the big point that most of the soy in the USA is owned and patented by Monsanto...

[Steven Low]

That's only an argument based on taste, assuming someone really -only- likes whole milk, which I am assuming is the case for you.

If you like skim milk and not whole milk, instead, there's no reason to drink whole milk, at all. You can have skim milk and if you want butter just add it in places where it's more tasty, like on vegetables or pasta or toast etc.
To people who don't like the taste of whole milk, whole milk is like putting butter in your drink, which is pointless since things will still be digested together anyways.

Wrong.

Skim milk especially is made up of just sugars + proteins which tend to spike insulin.

For most people trying to lose weight they are already close to metabolic syndrome and have moderate or high amounts of insulin resistance. This will not help them lose weight at all.

The extra fat helps blunt your body from releasing insulin, and coupled with exercise helps increase insulin sensitivity which makes it thusly easier to lose weight.

In reality I'd say drink water and eat healthy, but if you are going to drink milk it's better to do whole but I suppose 2% is fine. "White water" is not so good.