Author Topic: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie  (Read 1572 times)

Offline KC Parsons

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While we, as humans, don't hibernate, we tend to put on some pounds during the winter. I don't think personally that there's some sort of evolutionary process that has programmed us to do so, I just think it's the less inclination for movement due to cold weather (talking about areas that are cold during the winter).


After coming from an ankle injury right into winter, I experienced some of this. Following IF eating habits most always makes me mentally perform better, but this post is more in regards to body composition.

It's not weight that someone else would have noticed, I wasn't really noticably chubbier, but I myself could tell. I had become more 'soft'**.

Now, I had gone through periods where I was holding diet fairly well and partaking in fasting. But, because I'm going mainly off of memory, I can't attest to the comlete accuracy of what I remember.

My biggest problem, though, was allowing my diet to slip, mainly food quality, and at times even the self-control to hold a fast.

I'd eventually fix my habits, at least for a little, but usually slip back. This cycle and time lapse makes it even harder for me to tell what was going on precisely.

I do remember that at times, I felt like I looked satisfactory by standards compared to what I remembered of myself pre-injury, maybe only a little less than preferred.

I think I remember, though may just be my mind telling me this, the times of fasting I'd at least start to become 'less soft'.

And so, with the minimally precise time corrolations, and rarely holding good eating habits for at least more than a week, I can probably attribute a lot of my undesired look to that.







This is not a vain post, however. This has sparked my interest now that the weather's getting nice and I'm being much more active. During the winter there was one time where I went for about 2 and a half weeks before I slipped, and during that time I was satisfied with my current body composition, but it was still not comparable to how I'm looking now that I'm getting more activity (and eating habits decent, I somewhat have either foot on both sides of the fence right now, instead of hopping back and forth).


This is where the meat of my question is:
Now what has seemed to be true, as I remember said by Charlie, probably Chris, and mentioned on theiflife.com: body composition is 80%(of course general figure) diet.
While purely fixing food sources and IF (usually) definitely affected body composition, I am a little bit confused. As of now my eating is only fair, but activity level increased; but my body comp. is more favorable than with less activity but good eating habits.


Again, this isn't a vain post, I'm asking because I want to make sure I know the truth so I can pass on the correct info.

Is this really true? Is eating only great food sources, and possibly later on the attempt at IF, going to generally be enough to affect the body composition of someone who comes to me for help?
Of course activity will help, but to my knowledge the diet is more important, and I tell them that.


Blah, I'm at a loss here and not entirely sure what else to say, so I hope I've got my information and question across.

Also, a pre-thanks for everyone who helps contribute to this topic.













** I'm assuming this to be a higher concentration of adipose tissue, which seems to most often be the reason people feel "less defined". Perhaps there could be other reasons for this, and my concern with the fat aspect is completely off. In that case, I'd LOVE to read about other causes of feeling 'soft', so please try and inform me on that (at least send me a link or two so I can further understand it).
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 06:42:47 AM by KC "QMKC" Parsons »

Offline ZacharyCohn

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Offline Sat Santokh

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2009, 08:07:18 AM »
While we, as humans, don't hibernate, we tend to put on some pounds during the winter. I don't think personally that there's some sort of evolutionary process that has programmed us to do so, I just think it's the less inclination for movement due to cold weather (talking about areas that are cold during the winter).


You eat more during the winter because as your body temperature drops you want to eat more.  Think about when its really hot out, you usually don't feel like eating a big huge meal. 

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2009, 08:16:19 AM »
What exactly is the question here?

Why you felt like you lost weight when you started getting more active?
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Offline KC Parsons

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2009, 03:36:02 PM »
What exactly is the question here?

Why you felt like you lost weight when you started getting more active?

Yes, but it also has to do with the food sources. Of course being active vs inactive with no other changes is going to most likely lead to better health and weight loss...but my point is my food choices are fairly crappy while being active, yet I find my body composition much more desirable than when I was relatively pretty inactive but eating very well.

Offline Steven Low

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2009, 06:07:14 PM »
1. Diet modulates weight.
2. Exercise modulates body composition (fat/muscle).

If you have significant amounts of bodyfat (and, for example want a six pack)... it's mostly diet because you need to lose a lot of fat WEIGHT.

However, if you need to gain muscle and/or lose very little amounts of fat to improve body composition, then you're going to have to exercise too.

If it really was "ALL" diet.. then those anorexic models should "look" the best with regards to body composition... obviously nowhere near the case. Your BF% is probably low enough where exercise + decent/good diet is going to make the best changes since you probably don't need to lose any WEIGHT.

This is also why high intensity exercise is the best... because in general it stimulates the fastest body composition changes... combine it with a good diet if you're fat and you'll see yourself gain a fair bit of muscle as well as lose a bunch of fat.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 06:09:34 PM by Steve Low »
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Offline KC Parsons

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2009, 06:32:55 AM »
1. Diet modulates weight.
2. Exercise modulates body composition (fat/muscle).

If you have significant amounts of bodyfat (and, for example want a six pack)... it's mostly diet because you need to lose a lot of fat WEIGHT.

However, if you need to gain muscle and/or lose very little amounts of fat to improve body composition, then you're going to have to exercise too.

If it really was "ALL" diet.. then those anorexic models should "look" the best with regards to body composition... obviously nowhere near the case. Your BF% is probably low enough where exercise + decent/good diet is going to make the best changes since you probably don't need to lose any WEIGHT.

This is also why high intensity exercise is the best... because in general it stimulates the fastest body composition changes... combine it with a good diet if you're fat and you'll see yourself gain a fair bit of muscle as well as lose a bunch of fat.

Thank you very much. This basically cleared it up. It's much appreciated.



Side note: I think I remember a discussion about milk once, and it in there was a reference to people thinking it makes one "soft" (which I personally thought would just be due to those that drink large amounts of it = fat gain), but someone said something about potassium or along those lines which could contribute to that.
Do minerals or any other substance for that matter affect such things? Perhaps it moderates tonus/tone and allow for a more naturally relaxed/contracted muscle? And finally, along those lines, what types of exercise (I'd imagine HIIT) would actually stimulate more tonus/tone.
I know many fluffs will say to do "high rep low weight for tone", but I'm fairly certain that's a bunch of bull. I was wondiering if anyone knew what activities will actually lead to this.
Researching it thus far has been a flop, as expected, because any search for tone, or even tonus, just comes up with a bunch of anecdotal/word-of-mouth based information.

Offline Chris Salvato

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Offline KC Parsons

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2009, 04:09:50 PM »
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/milk-the-new-sports-drink-a-review-research-review.html

I remembered having read this article before, and I'm not done re-reading it yet, but I came up to this point:
Quote from: Lyle McDonald (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/milk-the-new-sports-drink-a-review-research-review.html)
...dairy calcium improves body composition, etc. And while dairy does contain quite a bit of sodium (which is what I suspect causes the issues with ’smoothness’ for contest bodybuilders), this is only an issue on the day of the contest. Dropping milk out 16 weeks out can only hurt fat loss, not help it.

What exactly is it that makes sodium cause a 'smoothness' during the day of a bodybuilding competition?

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2009, 04:25:40 PM »
My *guess* is that sodium affects water retention. If there is a lot of sodium in the body, the body will retain more water, and this will make the body appear less defined/smoother.

I have read that some bodybuilders eat tons of potassium leading up to a competition because sodium and potassium work together to maintain electrolyte balance in the body; in my simplified (and probably inaccurate?) understanding, sodium causes retention of water and potassium causes a "flushing out" of water. So these bodybuilders cut sodium and increase potassium before a competition to make their bodies look less "puffy" and more "hard." I have read that this has been a dangerous practice in many cases; monkeying with electrolytes is bad news.

But again, this is all anecdotal/interpretive on my part. If I am misinforming, please let me know.
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Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2009, 04:34:06 PM »
What exactly is it that makes sodium cause a 'smoothness' during the day of a bodybuilding competition?

Brotherman...read the article again - Lyle goes over that in detail.

BODYBUILDERS typically say it makes you "smoother" looking.  The reason Lyle speculates this myth got started is because most bodybuilders cut out sodium quite a bit to get lean then would drink milk when they would get back into non-contest dieting.

Low or No sodium dietary practices followed by a sudden influx of dietary sodium means that your body will overcompensate and suddenly hoard a ton of it.  The body will overshoot on sodium stores then go back (gradually) until you are at a healthy level.  This influx of sodium causes a proportional influx of water...water makes you look smoother and less "ripped".
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Offline KC Parsons

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2009, 04:44:48 PM »
What exactly is it that makes sodium cause a 'smoothness' during the day of a bodybuilding competition?

Brotherman...read the article again - Lyle goes over that in detail.

BODYBUILDERS typically say it makes you "smoother" looking.  The reason Lyle speculates this myth got started is because most bodybuilders cut out sodium quite a bit to get lean then would drink milk when they would get back into non-contest dieting.

Low or No sodium dietary practices followed by a sudden influx of dietary sodium means that your body will overcompensate and suddenly hoard a ton of it.  The body will overshoot on sodium stores then go back (gradually) until you are at a healthy level.  This influx of sodium causes a proportional influx of water...water makes you look smoother and less "ripped".

Haha, thanks a bunch man. I went back and vigorously scanned the article, looking for that part and couldn't find it. Then I realized it's in an article that he links to.
A fun little side piece of information was his mentioned that hyperhydrating actually has great effects on fat loss, if one didn't already have enough reasons to drink lots of water.

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2009, 05:15:53 PM »
my mistake...

his articles melt together in my brain.
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Offline Steven Low

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2009, 06:25:55 PM »
my mistake...

his articles melt together in my brain.

haha... me too.

And they're generally so dense that you can only read 1-2 per day otherwise you kinda zone out.
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Offline KC Parsons

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2009, 06:42:32 AM »
my mistake...

his articles melt together in my brain.

haha... me too.

And they're generally so dense that you can only read 1-2 per day otherwise you kinda zone out.

That and/or forget/confuse a lot of the information (as I found out) :P

Offline FastGuppy

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2009, 08:56:56 PM »
how would you lose fat in a specific section? Just work out that specific part?
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Offline Steven Low

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2009, 11:19:17 PM »
how would you lose fat in a specific section? Just work out that specific part?

No such thing as spot reduction.... unless you're extremely obese.
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Offline KC Parsons

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2009, 06:23:34 AM »
how would you lose fat in a specific section? Just work out that specific part?
Like Steve said, it's not possible. You just have to drop weight/fat overall. To my knowledge, different hormonal profiles (basically, the different amounts you have of different hormones) key for your body to store fat in certain spots. Common spots, of course, are the love handles, stomach, thighs, buttocks (the latter 2 more prevalent in women [possibly linked to more estrogen?]). Often times you'll find that the most troublesome fatty parts of your body are the same spots that take the most work/time to lose the fat from.
Read Chris Salvato's stickied article entitled "Eating Right: How to Get Started" since diet is very important to health (even with no regard to body composition).

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2009, 06:58:56 AM »
I don't know about the reasoning for fat patterning to the theighs/buttocks -- probably something to do with estrogen in some way.  Stress and the stress response causes more fat to be deposited in the midsection though.  Since men have higher levels of resting Sympathetic Nervous Activity it is probably reasonably safe to say this contributes to their fat storage in the mid section since SNA = Stress (when put in very simple terms, that is)
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Offline Steven Low

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Re: A fasting and exercise question directed towards Chris/Steve/Charlie
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2009, 10:52:15 AM »
I don't know about the reasoning for fat patterning to the theighs/buttocks -- probably something to do with estrogen in some way.  Stress and the stress response causes more fat to be deposited in the midsection though.  Since men have higher levels of resting Sympathetic Nervous Activity it is probably reasonably safe to say this contributes to their fat storage in the mid section since SNA = Stress (when put in very simple terms, that is)

Cortisol (stress hormone) fat deposition is in the upper back, and visceral fat (omentum).
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