Author Topic: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance  (Read 1029 times)

Offline Gabe Arnold

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The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« on: April 24, 2009, 08:07:42 PM »
I've been to the City of Brotherly Love, Philadelphia, numerous times for parkour jams. The town has quite a few hotspots that offer some great training food to the hungry traceur. But there is one spot in particular that always gets my fingers aching and my feet dancing: the Philadelphia Art Museum.

Anyone who's seen the movie Rocky will instantly recognize the place I'm talking about. It's the famous Rocky Steps, the abnormally huge set of stairs that leads into one of the museum's entrances. Not only is it great for watching hundreds of people do Rocky Balboa impressions all day, it has some fantastic walls/stones/rails for PK training. Case in point...


Pretty sweet huh?

Now, I've been there several times: many Philly jams start out there. And every time I'm there, I dare myself to attempt The Rocky Challenge. Look at the above pic again. See those stone walls on the far right side, the giant Lego looking ones? That's the Rocky Challenge. I start at the very tippy-top, take off, and must navigate my way down (and up) each of those blocks until I hit the final one. And then I turn around and go back, without rest, until I'm back where I started. That's probably 100 yards of distance but 8-9 drops and 7-8 climbs, ranging in wall height from five feet to eight feet. And trust me, an eight foot wall is absolute murder, mentally and physically, after running through the rest of it. The first time I tried, I had to crawl up the last wall, even using my chin to roll onto the top.

I've attempted the challenge several times and every time I have been completely wasted at the end. Falling on the ground, chest heaving, vision blurred wasted. But I like to try the challenge because I fell that it is close to the fundamental idea of parkour: a deceptively short distance, impedded by obstacles, that must be traversed quickly, safely, for a reason. (I imagine that there's a horrible car crash at the street below and I must get there as fast as possible)

Now the point of this thread. I've realized after my many attempts that in order to complete the challenge in a timely fashion, without death from exhuastion, I need a near-perfect blend of strength and endurance. I need the endruance, obviously, to keep my muscles pumping and my lungs chugging. I need the strength to scale the walls and withstand the forces of each drop without crumpling like a ragdoll. So...how do I do it? How do I find that blend of everything?

I've read up on strength training, on heavy weights and exercises like squats, deadlifts, and other related topics. I've also read up some on cardio building/strength endurance building, a la CrossFit style workouts and sprint interval training/long distance running.

I'm not in bad shape to begin with, not perfect but not bad IMO. I did a fitness assment challenge at my college gym today and scored 58 pushups in 1 minute, 56 situps in 1 minute, and 3:01 minute half-mile. My heaviest bench press was 180 pounds for 5 reps recently and my squat was 200 pounds for 3 reps. I know my cardiovascular endruance is lacking but I plan to work on that soon.

So again the question is posed...what is the best way to get the highest level of strength vs. endruance to finish this challenge? Should I focus on more of one than the other, or vice-versa? What is everyone's opinion?

P.S. Try finding your own Rocky Challenge and tell everyone how you did.

Offline Charles Moreland

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2009, 08:21:51 PM »
The push up "fitness" test is far from an assessment you would want to use. What are your Murph/Cindy/Fran/Angie times/score?

Offline Gabe Arnold

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2009, 09:36:29 PM »
I don't have any. I'm looked into CrossFit WODs but I've never done a full one.

Offline Taylor Lovell

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Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2009, 05:32:25 AM »
It is much more difficult to have good endurance when you are not strong.

180 Bench and 200 Squat are still somewhat low numbers...

Get your squat to 2xBW and work on your planche and FL.  If you can squat 2xBW and hold a Front Lever and Straddle PLanche then you are strong, imho.
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Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2009, 07:07:51 AM »
Strong is always relative.  I doubt any of the elite-totaling powerlifters out there today can FL or straddle planche.  Of course, these are also the guys with crap-poor endurance (though, if you come out of Louie Simmons' gym, also some of the most explosive athletes in the world).

While I think CrossFit is great for middle-of-the-ground performance in all areas of fitness, and CF also produces some of the most enduring athletes out there, I'm always going to be a fan of more Westside-style training for any type of athlete.  Devote two days of your week to developing maximal strength and devote a day or two a week to intense stamina conditioning.  I do think getting to a 2x squat is necessary for everyone, though.

Also.. with all that climbing, you probably want to work on increasing your pull-up strength AND endurance.  Like Chris said, I find it easier to work on endurance when I'm already strong.. so I recommend slowly adding weight to your pull-ups first to up your 5RM..  Then come back and GTG for bodyweight.
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Offline Dan Frank

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2009, 11:46:17 AM »
Strong is always relative.  I doubt any of the elite-totaling powerlifters out there today can FL or straddle planche.  Of course, these are also the guys with crap-poor endurance (though, if you come out of Louie Simmons' gym, also some of the most explosive athletes in the world).

Could gymnasts be considered the strongest all-around athletes in the world? They've got endurance and strength and balance.... you name it, they've got it.
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Offline Taylor Lovell

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2009, 12:08:13 PM »
I would have to say that gymnastics is probably strongest for upper body, for their weight. However, the strongest for lower body I would say Olympic lifters.

Offline swap01

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2009, 02:28:45 PM »
hmmm... I think that hardcore traceurs like David Belle are possibly the best in the world, or prehaps decatheletes. I agree that gymnasts have the strongest upper body, and they have very strong lower body too.

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2009, 03:05:23 PM »
hmmm... I think that hardcore traceurs like David Belle are possibly the best in the world, or prehaps decatheletes.

Best what?  If you mean strongest people...then not by a longshot...but DB is one of the best traceurs...and decathletes are good at decathlons...
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Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2009, 03:45:52 PM »
I would have to say that gymnastics is probably strongest for upper body, for their weight. However, the strongest for lower body I would say Olympic lifters.

Oly-lifters aren't that strong in their lower bodies.  Just extremely powerful.  There's a difference.

Strength is relative to what you're doing.  A gymnast might be really strong with levers, crosses, malteses, etc.. but under a bar, they probably wouldn't be able to produce much more force than any other athlete if they don't train for it.

Your muscles get strong at what you train them for, and only what you train them for.  Transfer exists, but is minimal.  Cross-training is, for the most part, ineffective.  All you really need is GPP and SPP.
Andy Tran, C.S.C.S.
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Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2009, 03:54:10 PM »
I would have to say that gymnastics is probably strongest for upper body, for their weight. However, the strongest for lower body I would say Olympic lifters.

Oly-lifters aren't that strong in their lower bodies.  Just extremely powerful.  There's a difference.

Strength is relative to what you're doing.  A gymnast might be really strong with levers, crosses, malteses, etc.. but under a bar, they probably wouldn't be able to produce much more force than any other athlete if they don't train for it.

Your muscles get strong at what you train them for, and only what you train them for.  Transfer exists, but is minimal.  Cross-training is, for the most part, ineffective.  All you really need is GPP and SPP.

Well thats not entirely true.

Gymnasts are very good at learning new movements.  In 2-3 sessions I have seen/heard of gymnasts hitting 2.5-3x BW deadlifts.
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Offline Taylor Lovell

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2009, 05:07:25 PM »
thats because gymnastics are very strong, and I'm not sure how power vs strength is distinguished?

Offline Chris Salvato

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2009, 05:22:36 PM »
thats because gymnastics are very strong, and I'm not sure how power vs strength is distinguished?

Thats for a lot of reasons...saying "gymnasts are very strong" is just silly.  Someone who can deadlift 1000# can't do a front lever...and they are strong...

Gymnasts have very high neural efficiency -- they learn new things quickly..especially females.  On top of that, they have a great deal of strength along their posterior chain which needs to be harnessed in a new movement (thus 2-3 sessions) since they never really do full ROM posterior chain work, for the most part.

Strength = Force Production
Work = Force Production * Distance
Power = Work/Time

Basic Physics.

400# Deadlift taking 2 seconds -- high force production means high strength.  Long time means low Power.
400# Deadlift taking .5 seconds -- high force production means high strength.  Short time means high Power.
100# Deadlift taking .5 seconds -- low force production means low strength.  Short time but low force means its the same amount of power as a 400# DL in 2 seconds...

just math, work it out :D
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Offline Shae Perkins

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2009, 07:01:21 AM »


Your muscles get strong at what you train them for, and only what you train them for.  Transfer exists, but is minimal.  Cross-training is, for the most part, ineffective.  All you really need is GPP and SPP.

I agree with the first part saying that your muscles are conditioned to what you condition them for, but I disagree with the second part. I've noticed people that cross train out the ass are particularly apt to taking on new activities with no previous experience it. Maybe the exact strength doesn't transfer, but the coordination does.

For example I train MovNat (walking, running, climbing, jumping, swimming, QM, balancing, lifting, throwing, catching, and defending) the mother of all cross training, and I recently bought a wheelchair. Being lucky, I have never had to be restricted to one and I had never been in one. Though I was able to go into a wheelie within 2 or 3 tries and hold it for as long as I want.

Cross training IMHO is a very effective way to go. :)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 07:02:56 AM by Shae "shae" Perkins »
This post was based off of my personal gatherings. Enjoy:)

Offline Andy Animus Tran

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2009, 10:35:23 AM »
Shae, MovNat is the mother of GPP, not cross-training.  Cross-training is playing basketball to improve your soccer game.
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Offline Steven Low

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Re: The Rocky Challenge: Reconciling Strength vs. Endurance
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2009, 08:41:39 PM »
Power translates very well to strength... strength translates SOME to power.
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