Topic: Another Roll Thread-

[Nom]

I have a lot of people who ask me which is the best way to roll and I usually tell them, "Do what's best for you and doesn't hurt." But I don't like doing that, I'd rather give a definite answer. What do you guys think is best?

The UF way: http://www.urbanfreeflow.com/fundamentals/roll/index.htm
The APK way: http://www.americanparkour.com/content/view/264/214/
Team Ukemi way: http://tsukikage.no-ip.org/staff_instruction_video.mov

these were a couple different ways I found on the net.

[Mark Toorock]

Link is broken ...

I'm curious as to what you see as major differences between mine and Ez's? I don't really see them as "this way or that way".

Being critical of both, my feet are horribly untucked when I talk of them being tucked. Ez seems to come out of his facing 90 degrees left of the direction he was rolling, and not really "up".

Of course it's better in any case when you can see it in a video with a more complete explanation, or learn it from someone first hand. (as long as that person knows what they're doing and more importantly what you're doing).

[Nom]

For the most part it's the hand placement.
In you'rs you say, "Your right hand should be “palm facing you”, your hand does not brace your weight."
In his he says, "Here he's using both hands placed on the left hand side of where his head will be, to break momentum...The hand placement will also ensure that his head is protected as he enters into the roll."

Also, in the pictures, his right hand isn't palm up which could just be the moment the picture was taken, but I've slown down some videos and he seems to not do that ever. He seems to not worry so much about the roundness of his arms either.

Also, ez's talks about your spine never touching, "Rolling on his shoulder diagonally across his back, this prevents any part of his spine from making contact with the ground."

[Mark Toorock]

Well, looking at the second and third pictures, unless he's built differenly, his palm is facing up ... and his right hand doesn't bear any weight, just like mine says

Mine doesn't mention that your hands go on your left, but in the pictures if your arm is in front of you and rounded, then yeah, your hand is to the left of you.

And finally, the last line of mine ... "Check to see that your roll was diagonal down your back from shoulder to hip."


Im not trying to be argumentative, I just personally don't see them as much different, not like "which one of these two differnet ways yadda yadda" ... as I've said many times, humans are built with roughly the same proportions and usually the same parts, so there won't be THAT much variation in techniques that work. Of course once you have learned a "standard" way to do something that works, you can take it and make adjustments to suit your body type / style / preference, but I suggest learning foundations before doing this, otherwise you're just wingin it and not making use of good information that's already out there and been learned through trial and (hopefully someone else's) error


In this thread Danno said he would be clearing up some of this for us, so fingers crossed for that info ..
http://www.americanparkour.com/smf/index.php/topic,1488.msg17335.html#msg17335

[Nom]

thanks m2.

[jmanndriver]

Why not go to the video section where mathew wills posted his video tutorial page.

[hardcoretraceur]

the thing is, if it doesn't hurt, then you are doing it correctly. it doesnt have to look like those rolls, in fact different situations can call for different rolls.

i would say the main thing to teach beginners is that they shouldnt pretend it doesnt hurt, or try to man up or whatever. minor backpain ground level could be much more serious with the added pressure from a drop. if it doesnt feel right, you arent doing it right.

another thing thats integral to the roll is the fact that you shouldnt lose momentum in it, it should carry through, and if you are slowing down signifigantly, then you are doing it incorrectly.

[Mark Toorock]

Well, now I see where the "danger disaster" part of your name comes from

"if it doesn't hurt it's right"   is NOT TRUE. as a matter of fact, that's DANGEROUS ADVICE for exactly the reason you just pointed out, someone may think "oh, it didn't hurt, I'm doing it right" then try it from a drop or on conrete and get injured.

If you're doing it right you're doing it right, there are plenty of people who can help, in your area or who you can send a video to.


As for "Many ways of rolling", I've yet to see anyone show me a significantly different way. (diagnol rolls and straight rolls are two) I'm curious, PLEASE back that statement up with something. I'm not, and I've never, said there is only one right way to do something, but there can be a "Right way" and there are definitely "wrong ways" ... there is nothing bad about the fact that there is a right way to do something. Humans have been rolling for thousands of years, martial artists made a study of it and learned some things, why not take thousands of years of OTHER PEOPLES PAIN and learn from it?

Now, as for the hands up / down issue- there are some people who tell you to put your right palm down ...  I tell you to try it, get on your knee, put your right palm facing down, now tell me how you are going to transition smoothly to your right shoulder? It doesn't make sense to me that way.
 
No try it with your palm facing up, see the difference? One way "braces against" while the other allows you to be supply and round. fo rme, if you put your palm facing down IT HAS TO TURN OVER at some point, and I feel that putting it down sets up a bad angle and bad form in a roll.


 
Again, nothing is right 100% of the time or for everyone, I just tell people the best way I know.


 

[hardcoretraceur]

sorry, but the "if it doesnt hurt, you're doing it right" is what i got from a friend who was training with belle and got that tidbit. there are many techniques to rolling. not to say belle is the be all and end all, im just saying the source wasnt my own mind or anything.

the many techniques can be seen in various martial arts that teach you various ways. your body can roll in different directions. i have done forward(over one side, not the spine), diagonal, sideways, and backwards rolls to disperse landing pressure.