Author Topic: Has it gotten this easy?  (Read 1572 times)

Offline Alec Furtado

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Re: Has it gotten this easy?
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2009, 03:45:05 PM »
i have to stress that lifting is not the way to go.
And you base that assertion on what exactly?


Not NatMov... other way :D http://www.movnat.com/

MovNat is based around 10 principles: Walking, running, Quadrupedal movement, climbing, jumping, balancing, throwing, lifting, defending and swimming.
That's Hébert's natural method. MovNat is pretty much the same thing though. (Slight and unimportant correction :P)
Water conforms to the shape of it's surroundings. Do not be water. Shape your own life.

Offline TR

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Re: Has it gotten this easy?
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2009, 04:03:13 PM »
MovNat is based around 10 principles: Walking, running, Quadrupedal movement, climbing, jumping, balancing, throwing, lifting, defending and swimming.
That's Hébert's natural method. MovNat is pretty much the same thing though. (Slight and unimportant correction :P)

MovNat is based off of Methode Naturelle :/ but yeh, unimportant. Just different/new name.

Offline max eisenberg

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Re: Has it gotten this easy?
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2009, 04:07:10 PM »
lifting weights will give you strength yes, and it guides your muscles into working the "right" way.

by doing this you dont develop YOUR body, you develop A body.

the whole reason the natural method was created was because the african people who live naturally had the most amazing physical abilities with no training or weight lifting.

they had strength that matched that of a work out-aholic yet they hadnt ever stepped foot in a gym.

yes doing the natural method stuff is "weight lifting" but, its not guided by anything but your body.

it builds your body differently and stronger than a gym. i just hate the idea of a gym, we do parkour to develop our mind and adapt to our own body, why would we not work out that way too?

makes no sense to me, thats all.

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=fitness&category=motivation&conitem=7d7caa4e23adf110VgnVCM10000013281eac____&page=1

in case people missed it.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 04:10:09 PM by eisenberg »


my mind is constantly moving, one day my body will be strong enough to keep up.

Offline Muse_of_Fire

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Re: Has it gotten this easy?
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2009, 04:09:22 PM »
The thing is, no one learns parkour by watching tutorials. You learn parkour by doing parkour. So who's to say you have a better understanding of parkour than someone who uses tutorials or seeks out advice from experienced traceurs? You and that person both had to go out and do parkour on your own, right? Let me tell you, I "taught myself" parkour for a few months too. And I got nowhere. It wasn't until I went to some national jams and had a chance to get help from some experienced people that I really started learning how to do it. I guess that doesn't make me a "real" traceur, though.

I'm happy for you that you were able to learn "all of the basics" by yourself. What are "all the basics"? Is there a list of them somewhere?

Learning by observing where others have gone and following their example is not "rushing" through training. I don't think there is a person on this forum who will disagree with your assertion that parkour is all about personal discovery and that the way to learn parkour is to do parkour. But learning from others or watching a tutorial isn't shirking the self-discovery part. I can watch tutorials and discuss technique on the forum all day long but I will never learn parkour until I go out and do it and discover how it feels on my own body, and experience those mistakes and reflect on them. ALL learning is self-discovery, no matter what the subject is. Can you imagine what school would be like, or what life would be like, if those with more experience just sat back and watched you try to figure out how to derive your own quadratic equation, or how to determine safe mushrooms from poisonous ones? The human race would have died thousands of years ago if people kept all the knowledge for themselves and made everyone figure it out on their own. By your argument I should teach my students French by buying them all one-way tickets to France and saying, "Figure it out. Good luck! Try not to die."

Yes, experience is the best teacher, by far. But benefiting from the experience of others, who are able to say, "Seek out this experience, do not bother with those," is efficient learning. Efficiency is supposed to be what we're all about, isn't it?

Personally I don't think that ignoring the benefit of others' experience is admirable at all. I think it's foolish.
She followed slowly, taking a long time,
as though there were some obstacle in the way;
and yet: as though, once it was overcome,
she would be beyond all walking, and would fly.
--excerpt from Going Blind, Rainer Maria Rilke

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Offline Dylan Baker

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Re: Has it gotten this easy?
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2009, 04:42:52 PM »
i think Muse makes a great point. however, we all must start to become more independent as we progress. when we grow into teenagers, most of us have that natural desire to leave our parents, go off to college, start a family, etc. but there are people on the forum and a few people who i have taught in the past that become too dependent on asking what comes next in their training or asking the exact specifics on how to do each and every move. in my experience, these people tend to not progress unless they have someone to train with or oftentimes they are too afraid to try a certain move because they have not learned how to figure things out on their own. to truly find who you are as a person and really gain your own style as a traceur, you need to be able to sort some of these things out for yourself.

so, while we should definitely continue to learn from eachother's mistakes and successes, we also don't want to become to dependent on the guidance of others. that's my two cents.
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Offline max eisenberg

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Re: Has it gotten this easy?
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2009, 04:51:19 PM »
i think Muse makes a great point. however, we all must start to become more independent as we progress. when we grow into teenagers, most of us have that natural desire to leave our parents, go off to college, start a family, etc. but there are people on the forum and a few people who i have taught in the past that become too dependent on asking what comes next in their training or asking the exact specifics on how to do each and every move. in my experience, these people tend to not progress unless they have someone to train with or oftentimes they are too afraid to try a certain move because they have not learned how to figure things out on their own. to truly find who you are as a person and really gain your own style as a traceur, you need to be able to sort some of these things out for yourself.

so, while we should definitely continue to learn from eachother's mistakes and successes, we also don't want to become to dependent on the guidance of others. that's my two cents.

and thats a damn good two pennies.


my mind is constantly moving, one day my body will be strong enough to keep up.

Offline Anthony Ruiz

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Re: Has it gotten this easy?
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2009, 05:37:37 PM »
honestly im tired of hearing all the self righteous people here and and the elitist, we all do parkour our own way we all learn our own way we all work out our own way, so stop critising all the people who dont do it "your" i would never jam with any of you who think this way, this kinda mentality just pisses me off.
There is no reason to have a plan B, cause all it does is distract from plan A

Offline edgey

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Re: Has it gotten this easy?
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2009, 05:49:52 PM »
The thing is, no one learns parkour by watching tutorials. You learn parkour by doing parkour. So who's to say you have a better understanding of parkour than someone who uses tutorials or seeks out advice from experienced traceurs? You and that person both had to go out and do parkour on your own, right? Let me tell you, I "taught myself" parkour for a few months too. And I got nowhere. It wasn't until I went to some national jams and had a chance to get help from some experienced people that I really started learning how to do it. I guess that doesn't make me a "real" traceur, though.

I'm happy for you that you were able to learn "all of the basics" by yourself. What are "all the basics"? Is there a list of them somewhere?

Learning by observing where others have gone and following their example is not "rushing" through training. I don't think there is a person on this forum who will disagree with your assertion that parkour is all about personal discovery and that the way to learn parkour is to do parkour. But learning from others or watching a tutorial isn't shirking the self-discovery part. I can watch tutorials and discuss technique on the forum all day long but I will never learn parkour until I go out and do it and discover how it feels on my own body, and experience those mistakes and reflect on them. ALL learning is self-discovery, no matter what the subject is. Can you imagine what school would be like, or what life would be like, if those with more experience just sat back and watched you try to figure out how to derive your own quadratic equation, or how to determine safe mushrooms from poisonous ones? The human race would have died thousands of years ago if people kept all the knowledge for themselves and made everyone figure it out on their own. By your argument I should teach my students French by buying them all one-way tickets to France and saying, "Figure it out. Good luck! Try not to die."

Yes, experience is the best teacher, by far. But benefiting from the experience of others, who are able to say, "Seek out this experience, do not bother with those," is efficient learning. Efficiency is supposed to be what we're all about, isn't it?

Personally I don't think that ignoring the benefit of others' experience is admirable at all. I think it's foolish.




Muse, I never said that I learned all the basics by myself, I even said jams and tutorials weren't a bad thing and that I too had asked for help on the forums, I was just saying that I feel it has gotten way easy to not only to figure out what movement is YOUR movement but getting motivation from others and not yourself for taking a scary rail precision or doing your first kong, you dig?

Offline edgey

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Re: Has it gotten this easy?
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2009, 05:54:41 PM »
honestly im tired of hearing all the self righteous people here and and the elitist, we all do parkour our own way we all learn our own way we all work out our own way, so stop critising all the people who dont do it "your" i would never jam with any of you who think this way, this kinda mentality just pisses me off.

I'm am not forcing ANY kind of way on anyone, I was simply stating that I feel that instead of going on the forums and posting a topic named "Fear of [insert obstacle here]" and getting motivation from that, but instead getting your own self motivation and if you feel like you can't do it, don't go for it.

Offline TR

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Re: Has it gotten this easy?
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2009, 06:19:21 PM »
lifting weights will give you strength yes, and it guides your muscles into working the "right" way.

by doing this you dont develop YOUR body, you develop A body.

the whole reason the natural method was created was because the african people who live naturally had the most amazing physical abilities with no training or weight lifting.

they had strength that matched that of a work out-aholic yet they hadnt ever stepped foot in a gym.

yes doing the natural method stuff is "weight lifting" but, its not guided by anything but your body.

it builds your body differently and stronger than a gym. i just hate the idea of a gym, we do parkour to develop our mind and adapt to our own body, why would we not work out that way too?

makes no sense to me, thats all.

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=fitness&category=motivation&conitem=7d7caa4e23adf110VgnVCM10000013281eac____&page=1

in case people missed it.

Yes, I read the article a couple days ago.

To avoid unecessary arguing on a topic that has been discussed a billion times before, I'll just link you to another thread that discusses body weight vs. weight training. You'll get your answer there. http://archive.parkour.net/index.php?showtopic=14057

i think Muse makes a great point. however, we all must start to become more independent as we progress. when we grow into teenagers, most of us have that natural desire to leave our parents, go off to college, start a family, etc. but there are people on the forum and a few people who i have taught in the past that become too dependent on asking what comes next in their training or asking the exact specifics on how to do each and every move. in my experience, these people tend to not progress unless they have someone to train with or oftentimes they are too afraid to try a certain move because they have not learned how to figure things out on their own. to truly find who you are as a person and really gain your own style as a traceur, you need to be able to sort some of these things out for yourself.

so, while we should definitely continue to learn from eachother's mistakes and successes, we also don't want to become to dependent on the guidance of others. that's my two cents.

Well said, both Muse and Dylan.

honestly im tired of hearing all the self righteous people here and and the elitist, we all do parkour our own way we all learn our own way we all work out our own way, so stop critising all the people who dont do it "your" i would never jam with any of you who think this way, this kinda mentality just pisses me off.

Sorry, but there ARE right and wrong ways to approach/practice Parkour. No reason to throw pointless attitude around on a forum because you don't like what people propose. Get off the computer and train. If someone wants to train a certain way, a way in which that will lead to injury/pain then so be it, if they want to neglect help/information that will help them in the long run, and keep them healthy and strong through their life, then so be it.. But, if they are seeking help/advice on how to last, and keep their body healthy and strong, then good for them! If you want to train however you want, then do it! No one is going to stop you.

honestly im tired of hearing all the self righteous people here and and the elitist, we all do parkour our own way we all learn our own way we all work out our own way, so stop critising all the people who dont do it "your" i would never jam with any of you who think this way, this kinda mentality just pisses me off.

I'm am not forcing ANY kind of way on anyone, I was simply stating that I feel that instead of going on the forums and posting a topic named "Fear of [insert obstacle here]" and getting motivation from that, but instead getting your own self motivation and if you feel like you can't do it, don't go for it.

Yes! If you can't find motivation within yourself to do something YOU want to do, then it probably isn't for you. If you don't have the drive to figure something out on your own, then that's fine! I think when people compare Parkour to other things, they neglect the fact that we do Parkour for ourselves, to improve ourselves and discover new things, and that there really... is no secret behind it. We aren't looking to create the next big chemical equation... But yea, as I said from a PERSONAL stand point, it was most beneficial for ME to learn the basics on my own, and I believe that to be true for just about everyone else as well. And to answer your question about "what are the basics?" = What I deem the most important aspects of Parkour. Besides, as I said, it should be about learning how YOU can move about your environment, not how everyone else does, but I guess I have no room to make a statement like that. Just a belief I have come to from my years of training.

If there was one thing Parkour has taught me, is that for me, it has lead me on a path to be a stronger, more health individual, not an individual who only focuses on movement. I would rather be strong and healthy and lack some sort of technicality and last for a very long time, than to be weak and be good at movement for a couple years before injury/pain. Of course, my goal is to be strong and healthy, as well as be as good as I can be at movement.

One last thing... how many of us ACTUALLY train Parkour specifically for the application of a bad situation, or if we need to get somewhere? I know that I, as well as many others train because we enjoy moving, and it's a fun, unique activity that can be done anywhere by yourself.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 06:48:56 PM by TaylorR89 »

Offline max eisenberg

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Re: Has it gotten this easy?
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2009, 11:18:18 PM »
honestly im tired of hearing all the self righteous people here and and the elitist, we all do parkour our own way we all learn our own way we all work out our own way, so stop critising all the people who dont do it "your" i would never jam with any of you who think this way, this kinda mentality just pisses me off.

sorry but what in the hell are you yapping about?

i assume by "the elitist" you are referring to me. mind doing a little quoting to show which posts provoked such a response?

its a bit annoying to me that you arent actually responding to anything, you are just spewing.

i dont see anyone criticizing anyone. i see a discussion with people adding their own points.


my mind is constantly moving, one day my body will be strong enough to keep up.