Topic: Calorie dense foods

[Pave_the_Planet]

So I've been doing my best to keep track of what I've been eating for the past few days, and according to fitday I've only been consuming between 1600 and 1900 calories a day. Because I have a fairly high metabolism, and on top of that I've been doing intensive bodyweight workouts every other day, I feel that I need to be getting more calories. Are there any calorie dense foods that are going to be good for me (high protein and carbs)?

[DickTraceur]

Well, if you concentrate on filling up your diet with enough protein, you can pretty much just fill in the rest with goodies like whole grain pasta, veggies, and other carbs. As long as it's not white, it'll probably be OK, and if you're trying to gain weight there's no problem in eating stuff that's not 100% healthy as long as you're training hard.

Are you looking to gain weight? Might not be the kind of weight you're looking for if you're only doing BW exercises. If not, why don't you just eat more of whatever you're eating now until you hit maintenance?

Gonna need some more info on your goals.

[Chris Salvato]

Fats are also extremely calorie dense.  Start falling in love with nut butters, butter and good oils.

http://www.gofrolic.org/gofrolic/food_blog/Entries/2008/12/28_Cooking_Oil_101.html

[Pave_the_Planet]

Well, if you concentrate on filling up your diet with enough protein, you can pretty much just fill in the rest with goodies like whole grain pasta, veggies, and other carbs. As long as it's not white, it'll probably be OK, and if you're trying to gain weight there's no problem in eating stuff that's not 100% healthy as long as you're training hard.

Are you looking to gain weight? Might not be the kind of weight you're looking for if you're only doing BW exercises. If not, why don't you just eat more of whatever you're eating now until you hit maintenance?

Gonna need some more info on your goals.

A few of my goals are here http://www.americanparkour.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,159/topic,15318.0/

And yes, I'm trying to gain weight.

[Pave_the_Planet]

Fats are also extremely calorie dense.  Start falling in love with nut butters, butter and good oils.

http://www.gofrolic.org/gofrolic/food_blog/Entries/2008/12/28_Cooking_Oil_101.html

Thanks, Chris.

[Liset Reep]

I used to help with athletic training for cross country, and we always recommended our boys eat lots of carbs. About 60% of the food came from carbs (pastas mostly, with veggies thrown in for nutrition and fiber), 25% from fat, 15% from protein.

Carbs are your main energy source and fairly calorie dense. Your body wants to use carbs before it starts using fat, so fast food or other high-calorie diets are horrible for keeping up your energy levels. The body stores carbs as glycogen in the muscles to use in case energy is needed, such as, say, running.

Protein is good for repairing muscles but not so great as an energy source. The average American consumes more protein than necessary on a regular diet, so I wouldn't add any more to what you're already eating.

I also second the idea of those 'good fats'. Peanut butter, and other nut butters, are awesome because they not only have calories, but fats and protein as well.

[KC Parsons]

I used to help with athletic training for cross country, and we always recommended our boys eat lots of carbs. About 60% of the food came from carbs (pastas mostly, with veggies thrown in for nutrition and fiber), 25% from fat, 15% from protein.

Most of the people here would disagree with this nutritional practice, though. Not enough protein, wayyyy too many carbs, and you are recommending pasta. =\

Carbs are your main energy source and fairly calorie dense. Your body wants to use carbs before it starts using fat, so fast food or other high-calorie diets are horrible for keeping up your energy levels. The body stores carbs as glycogen in the muscles to use in case energy is needed, such as, say, running.
The first sentence is true, and the first part of the second sentence. But it's not like your body completely screws up when attempting to use fat as an energy source. Fat is more than 2 times higher in calories that carbs and protein, and won't cause the insulin problems that carbs are likely to. The reason fast-food is bad for energy levels is in fact the overload and horrible source of carbs, mainly bread/grains, potatoes, and sugar/HFCS

Protein is good for repairing muscles but not so great as an energy source. The average American consumes more protein than necessary on a regular diet, so I wouldn't add any more to what you're already eating.

Amino acids are much more useful than just muscle rebuilding, you need them for other functions. [the word protein literally means 'of first importance']. Add those normal functions along with muscle repair on a high activity level individual and you're going to need quite a bit. I highly doubt the average american overloads on protein...in comparison to carbs.
I also would like to point out that a traceur is not your average american ;]

I also second the idea of those 'good fats'. Peanut butter, and other nut butters, are awesome because they not only have calories, but fats and protein as well.
Definitely, and they're fairly portable/versatile. The nuts themselves can make good snacks as well.

[Charles Moreland]

The average American consumes more protein than necessary on a regular diet, so I wouldn't add any more to what you're already eating.

I disagree, certainly on the latter account and partially to the first.

If we're talking general American population, then perhaps you may be right. If we switch that to this specific forum, I think a good majority of traceurs do not come close to the amount of protein their bodies require. This leads me to number 2...

Pave is looking to gain weight (muscle mass) and to do so needs to increase his daily protein intake to match his new activity level and bodily demands.

[Andy Animus Tran]

For long distance endurance, carbs are probably the worst thing, honestly.  Yes, it's a primary source of energy, but it burns up very quickly, giving you a great  boost of energy at the BEGINNING of the run and a subsequent crash.  It's more pragmatic to eat fat as this yields more energy per gram and burns slower.

You're right that proteins are a terrible source of energy, but that's not why we consume them.    The importance of carb consumption should be kept to the side.  As a fast-burning fuel, having some carbs in your body is a great source of energy for "emergency" situations.  Once your body learns to adapt to using fat as its primary source of energy, then you'll have that "tank" of quick-burning energy for when you really need it.

[Liset Reep]

For long distance endurance, carbs are probably the worst thing, honestly.  Yes, it's a primary source of energy, but it burns up very quickly, giving you a great  boost of energy at the BEGINNING of the run and a subsequent crash.  It's more pragmatic to eat fat as this yields more energy per gram and burns slower.

You're right that proteins are a terrible source of energy, but that's not why we consume them.    The importance of carb consumption should be kept to the side.  As a fast-burning fuel, having some carbs in your body is a great source of energy for "emergency" situations.  Once your body learns to adapt to using fat as its primary source of energy, then you'll have that "tank" of quick-burning energy for when you really need it.

I wouldn't make the diet mostly of fats though? I mean, if you eat sugar (simple carbs) it'd be utilized quickly, but pasta, potatoes, etc and other complex carbs are great for that middle part of energy. I guess maybe my diet plan should have included more fat, which, although isn't as efficiently utilized as energy, is a good energy source.

But as far as having fat be your main source...isn't fat not as efficiently burned as carbs? I've just never heard of what you're speaking.  The body tends to use the carbs first (for about 2-3 hours of heavy working), and then it switches to fats as its reserve. I mean, I wouldn't load up on carbs and nothing else, but some oiled noodles and PB sandwiches do sound delicious and sufficient.

I disagree, certainly on the latter account and partially to the first.

If we're talking general American population, then perhaps you may be right. If we switch that to this specific forum, I think a good majority of traceurs do not come close to the amount of protein their bodies require. This leads me to number 2...

Pave is looking to gain weight (muscle mass) and to do so needs to increase his daily protein intake to match his new activity level and bodily demands.

True, you're right. I totally missed the 'gain muscle' part. I guess what I was trying to imply was "Don't start the Atkins diet of meat and low carbs", haha.  I know that protein is important in rebuilding muscle, but that doesn't justify eating a steak before/after practice. ((not that he was implying he would...))

I think the new standard for heavily active athletes trying to care for their muscles  is 1.5-2 g/kilo of body weight, and then more for those who are trying to build muscle it jumps to 2.5g/kilo.

I know with my weight, it's about...85g protein? Most meats average around 25g per serving (3.5 oz).

[Andy Animus Tran]

I never said to make the diet mostly fat.   Pasta, potatoes, etc.. Starchy carbs/grain carbs actually burn up really fast in the body.  Saying "complex carbs" is a touchy issue and very misleading.  It's slower than candy, but still much faster than vegetables.  Most of our carb intake should be vegetables.  Fruits secondary.  Grains last.

The general rule of thumb is 40/30/30.  40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat.  This needs to be changed depending on who you are as a person, but it's a good starting point.  Given that most Americans eat something more like 60% carbs in a meal, that's a pretty significant reduction of carb intake ESPECIALLY when you consider that grain carbs should be only about 30/40% of that carb intake.. If even THAT much.

[Liset Reep]

I never said to make the diet mostly fat.   Pasta, potatoes, etc.. Starchy carbs/grain carbs actually burn up really fast in the body.  Saying "complex carbs" is a touchy issue and very misleading.  It's slower than candy, but still much faster than vegetables.  Most of our carb intake should be vegetables.  Fruits secondary.  Grains last.

The general rule of thumb is 40/30/30.  40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat.  This needs to be changed depending on who you are as a person, but it's a good starting point.  Given that most Americans eat something more like 60% carbs in a meal, that's a pretty significant reduction of carb intake ESPECIALLY when you consider that grain carbs should be only about 30/40% of that carb intake.. If even THAT much.

Oops! Must've misunderstood you, sorry. xD

Also, I only say complex carbs because it's an easier description to understand than the chemical structure than "polysaccharides".

But I do disagree that starchy carbs burn up fast. Well, maybe faster than other sources, but not 'really fast'. They tend to be digested slower (more to break apart) and gradually put useable sugar in the blood, as opposed to the 'spike' seen after, say, candy.  So much that, you get a steady stream of blood sugar instead of using it all up at once (the body just pockets the rest for reserves anyway).

I guess maybe I was applying the principals of long distance *running* to parkour, heh. I'm new to all this, and looking at the physical requirements of parkour, we do use a lot more of our body during our workouts than XC runners do. I can see the need for increased fat in this case, and agree that vegetables are an excellent source of carbs (and vitamins, and fiber, and flavor...)

I tend to use fruits as dessert, since they are mostly sugar. Only thing  I might change about your suggestion is to put pastas second.

[Charles Moreland]

but that doesn't justify eating a steak before/after practice. ((not that he was implying he would...))

I think the new standard for heavily active athletes trying to care for their muscles  is 1.5-2 g/kilo of body weight, and then more for those who are trying to build muscle it jumps to 2.5g/kilo.

I know with my weight, it's about...85g protein? Most meats average around 25g per serving (3.5 oz).

Maybe not before practice (obvious reasons), but I'm confused why he shouldn't eat a steak after practice.

Also, your numbers are right, the explanations are not. 1.5-2g/kg of lean body mass is a normal muscle building zone. 2.5g/kg is pushing most extreme cases.

[Liset Reep]

but that doesn't justify eating a steak before/after practice. ((not that he was implying he would...))

I think the new standard for heavily active athletes trying to care for their muscles  is 1.5-2 g/kilo of body weight, and then more for those who are trying to build muscle it jumps to 2.5g/kilo.

I know with my weight, it's about...85g protein? Most meats average around 25g per serving (3.5 oz).

Maybe not before practice (obvious reasons), but I'm confused why he shouldn't eat a steak after practice.

Also, your numbers are right, the explanations are not. 1.5-2g/kg of lean body mass is a normal muscle building zone. 2.5g/kg is pushing most extreme cases.

Well...yeah, after practice I could see. Haha, especially since that's when he'd NEED it. I guess I meant to say a whole steak instead of a couple servings.

But thanks for clarifying those numbers!

[Steven Low]

but that doesn't justify eating a steak before/after practice. ((not that he was implying he would...))

I think the new standard for heavily active athletes trying to care for their muscles  is 1.5-2 g/kilo of body weight, and then more for those who are trying to build muscle it jumps to 2.5g/kilo.

I know with my weight, it's about...85g protein? Most meats average around 25g per serving (3.5 oz).

Maybe not before practice (obvious reasons), but I'm confused why he shouldn't eat a steak after practice.

Also, your numbers are right, the explanations are not. 1.5-2g/kg of lean body mass is a normal muscle building zone. 2.5g/kg is pushing most extreme cases.

Wrong.

For athletes, ESPECIALLY highly active athletes, try 1g/lbs normal up to even 1.5-2g/lbs. 1g/lbs is STANDARD.. if you do Parkour, lifting, sprinting, endurance running you should be eating this much protein EVERYDAY.

That's what... 2.2g/kg NORMAL and 3.3-4.4g/kg for those who are moving around heavy weights or need to put on mass.

Some BBers go up to 2-2.5g/lbs while they are cutting for contests. Higher protein = more muscle conservation as BF% drops.

[Steven Low]

For long distance endurance, carbs are probably the worst thing, honestly.  Yes, it's a primary source of energy, but it burns up very quickly, giving you a great  boost of energy at the BEGINNING of the run and a subsequent crash.  It's more pragmatic to eat fat as this yields more energy per gram and burns slower.

You're right that proteins are a terrible source of energy, but that's not why we consume them.    The importance of carb consumption should be kept to the side.  As a fast-burning fuel, having some carbs in your body is a great source of energy for "emergency" situations.  Once your body learns to adapt to using fat as its primary source of energy, then you'll have that "tank" of quick-burning energy for when you really need it.

I wouldn't make the diet mostly of fats though? I mean, if you eat sugar (simple carbs) it'd be utilized quickly, but pasta, potatoes, etc and other complex carbs are great for that middle part of energy. I guess maybe my diet plan should have included more fat, which, although isn't as efficiently utilized as energy, is a good energy source.

But as far as having fat be your main source...isn't fat not as efficiently burned as carbs? I've just never heard of what you're speaking.  The body tends to use the carbs first (for about 2-3 hours of heavy working), and then it switches to fats as its reserve. I mean, I wouldn't load up on carbs and nothing else, but some oiled noodles and PB sandwiches do sound delicious and sufficient.

No.

1a. Simple sugar is simply used RIGHT AWAY. Thus, deposited as fat generally speaking.

1b. Starchy carbs are better much like proteins and fats. Too many though... you get the same problems as simple sugars. This is problematic as it is VERY easy to overconsum carbohydrates.

2. How are fats not an "efficient" energy source? B-oxidation is pretty freakin' efficient... gives the most cals per oxidative metabolism, AND, I might add, is metabolized in LESS steps than carbohydrates.

3. In long distance running, FAT is primarily burned as your source of energy. Only when you go in burst sprint mode is glycogen/carbs being truly burned quickly (higher intensity running = glycogen).

There's a reason why marathoners can run their freakish 4:30 miles before they hit "THE WALL" at like mile 20-22. This is because oxidative metabolism, ESPECIALLY FOR LONG DISTANCE, is the PRIMARY source of energy. Hence why we breath... heavily... during runs! Oxygen.. oxidative metabolism/phosphorylation.. beta-oxidation.. yes? Who woulda thought, huh?


Yes, I am in a bad mood. So I apologize in advance.

[Liset Reep]

Steve-
What I was trying to say was that carbs are stored by the body as glycogen in the muscles for use by the muscles, and that carbs are the preferred energy source of the body*. Fat is used next, and doesn't provide as quick of energy as carbohydrates do, and therefore is less efficient for immediate use. Also, whatever carbohydrates the body doesn't use, will be stored as glycogen in the liver/muscles or fat anyway.

*Not saying to patronize your local Olive Garden, as vegetables and beans are awesome too.

I..I think we're agreeing on most things. I hope your mood passes and you feel better soon.

[Charles Moreland]

Hmmm, my textbook says otherwise, but I'll defer to your better judgment. (In regard to protein classifications)

[KC Parsons]

Steve-
What I was trying to say was that carbs are stored by the body as glycogen in the muscles for use by the muscles, and that carbs are the preferred energy source of the body*. Fat is used next, and doesn't provide as quick of energy as carbohydrates do, and therefore is less efficient for immediate use. Also, whatever carbohydrates the body doesn't use, will be stored as glycogen in the liver/muscles or fat anyway.

*Not saying to patronize your local Olive Garden, as vegetables and beans are awesome too.

I..I think we're agreeing on most things. I hope your mood passes and you feel better soon.

I think you're missing the point. In endurance running, you primarily use fat as a fuel source. Blood glucose and glycogen are used for the explosive, high intensity things just like Steve said.
I'm not sure you read his post correctly?

[Liset Reep]

I think you're missing the point. In endurance running, you primarily use fat as a fuel source. Blood glucose and glycogen are used for the explosive, high intensity things just like Steve said.
I'm not sure you read his post correctly?

I'm sure I did. But I'm also sure that, unless you're going past 2-3 hours of training/running (as you would in a marathon, as he mentioned), your body uses carbs as its primary source of fuel.

Your body doesn't know that it's going to be running for hours, so it doesn't start out using fat as its main source. It's going to use up the glycogen and glucose in the blood and muscles first, and then switch to fat when those run out.

That's why I suggested complex starches, such as those in root vegetables (potatoes), and in nutritional pastas. The glucose is put into the bloodstream slower than more sugary- foods, and will be used before your body switches to fats.

So unless he's suggesting we eat fat as our main source of energy and forgo carbs (which I doubt), I think we're essentially agreeing on the main idea.