Author Topic: Parkour in the X-Games...  (Read 13827 times)

Offline Sat Santokh

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #120 on: February 18, 2009, 06:31:05 PM »
I wasn't calling you a tool because you put that up.  I was calling you a tool because that's all you put up, you just said "nuff said."  Which in my opinion is rude when people are putting up paragraphs about what felt.  I thought I read later that you were in a rush so i had forgotten about it at that point.  So in conclusion: I thought it was rude that you didn't say anything, you just posted something almost everyone has seen and is old news.

Offline Dan Elric

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #121 on: February 19, 2009, 04:20:22 AM »
My conclusion:
Competition exists in parkour, and will always exist.  Staged competition against each other should not exist.  Turning parkour into a "sport" would dilute the purpose and eventually, over a long period of time, change it into something it was never meant to be.  We are the forerunners of parkour.  We must ensure the safety of the philosophy of parkour.
The only type of competition that could exist is a ninja warrior competition.  While we will look at other traceurs and say, "He is better than me," or, "He can improve that," it is important to remember we train to: a) better ourselves by "seeking perfection" and b) help others.

To prove my point about the dilution.  Look at the Olympics as it was, and look at it now.  Before, cheating would get you killed, and was a serious offense.  The Olympics stood for the achievements of the human body.  Now... Now all people care about is the gold.  Even still, the athletes are willing to cheat to win, taking enhancing drugs to improve their ability.  And the media has turned it into a huge publicity event.  No more do the Olympics stand for what they did.  Michael Phelps, someone I thought could represent the achievement of the human body, has disgraced the true Olympics.  Though the world around him may admonish his punishment and accept his apology, the ancient Greeks would have him put to death.  And Russia and Georgia violated the sacred Olympic Treaty - a treaty taken all too lightly today, for no one seems to enforce it as the Spartans once did.
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Offline Milquetoast

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #122 on: February 19, 2009, 07:29:52 AM »
Michael Phelps, someone I thought could represent the achievement of the human body, has disgraced the true Olympics.  Though the world around him may admonish his punishment and accept his apology, the ancient Greeks would have him put to death.

Wait...  What?  Since when did marijuana become a performance enhancing drug?!  And it's not like he was smoking while training to give him an edge...  If he did, he would never have won anything!  What are you going to rail against next?  Caffeine?  Alcohol?  Let's not get too carried away with YOUR local customs and YOUR local laws and attempt to force-feed them to everyone else...

Offline Sat Santokh

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #123 on: February 19, 2009, 07:56:14 AM »
Michael Phelps disgraced the olympics by having super short legs and an abnormally long torso, the greeks would have put him to death for that too.

Offline Leon Mederos

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #124 on: February 19, 2009, 08:58:30 AM »
Instead of railing this towards and off topic discussion on how Phelps smoked pot and how it does/doesn't affect the rest of the world, let's go back to the topic at hand: competition.

Over the past 5 years I've heard pretty much every argument for competition and against competition. I've witnessed some blind people following either side simply because someone they look up to holds beliefs on either side. What people have to realize is that there will never be an absolute of either side, it will always be a blend and it will always sway from one side to another. There will never be a a time when parkour is dominated by competition and there will never be a time when parkour is competition free.

I used the word "belief" because that's simply all it is - you guys are treating this like it's a religion, God exists vs god doesn't exist is the same as Parkour is competitive bs parkour is not competitive. Parkour is still in its' infancy because it will always be in it's infancy, the very act of restricting parkour to certain movements instantly turns that into NOT parkour. It's a difficult thing to explain because it's subjective.

If David Belle were to come out and say Parkour is jumping rooftops, what would your reactions be? "He's crazy, thats not parkour, WTF!!, Oooo I always thought it was building jumping, NO WAY PARKOUR IS SAFETY!" etc etc. But he has the authority, no? What if all the Yamakasi, Sebastien, UF, Tribe, PKGen, etc were all to say the same thing? Outrageous huh? How many of you would be content walking away and doing your own movement, and how many of you would be pissed that Parkour is defiled and try very hard to get the name back to it's "prestige"? Who would be rightfully practicing "Parkour", the masses of traceurs or the 'authority figures'?

What I'm getting at is that parkour is a fluid construct. You can only partially define it on a large scale. The other part is free to move around and change, and it WILL move around and change, especially within the individual. So instead of creating this artificial barrier in the community, why not bond together and try to make both work? Why can't the competitive side create a competition based on traceur vs nature instead of traceur vs traceur? Why can't the non-competitive side acknowledge that there is always a slight form of competition and instead of disregarding it all, help to create a competition that doesn't break any of the defined parts of the parkour they practice?

....Oh wait, it is happening. There are people from both "sides" who are working together to make sure that when it happens, it happens correctly. There are traceurs who believe whole heartedly that their parkour contains pieces of competition and there are traceurs that believe parkour is non-competitive.

Because of my personal beliefs, I take my parkour on a more spiritual level, so I lean towards the non-competitive side. I think parkour is pushing your body and mind to reach it's fullest. But I'm not so naive as to discard the fact that parkour in it's pure form is the definition of competition - it's a fight for survival, where the strongest, fittest, most in control live. (WARNING: PERSONAL BELIEF)I know there are two sides to parkour, a mental and physical, just as there are those two same sides in life. So I work with other traceurs from the other side of the spectrum so we can come up with a competition that is a happy medium. I think a competition that challenges the mind, tests the body, and connects you with other traceurs is possible. A competition where those who physically train hard are rewarded, but so are those who train equally as hard mentally to overcome themselves. A competition where traceurs work WITH each other to break these barriers, not against each other to tear us apart. So help me out guys, give some good ideas, feedback, constructive criticism, and your opinions in a respectful fashion and keep both sides in mind. Thanks  :)

Sat, I love your points. Daniel, I agree, sport would dilute so lets change it from a competitive sport to a cooperative experience.

Everyone else, keep in mind that when most of us use the word competition, we do NOT mean a head to head competition where it's two traceurs racing to beat each other in the same arena (like American Gladiators) instead we mean a competition like Ninja Warrior where there are a bunch of traceurs pushing to beat nature.
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Offline Leon Mederos

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #125 on: February 19, 2009, 08:59:05 AM »
Ugh I wrote too much, sorry guys.  [WTF]
When we move, we move as one.

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Offline Chris Kessler

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #126 on: February 19, 2009, 10:17:45 AM »
Wow, Leon, that was a really insightful post. Thank you for adding a bit of calmness and moral discourse as opposed to emoting.

But, what I loved most was your idea of "cooperative competition."

I can honestly see like, a team of 5 traceurs that have to perform a certain task, maybe they have to stay within a certain distance from each other, and TOGETHER they have to reach a goal, perform a task, or solve some sort of puzzle. Thus, we don't have anyone rooting for one guy, or anyone going against anyone else, we have everyone cheering on everyone!

It makes me think of a team sort of Ninja Warrior. It would be an amazing thing to put together.

If you ever want to put some serious thought into that kind of event/competition, you have my number, and we'll talk it over. I think that is quite within the bounds of "pure" parkour.
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Offline David Jones

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #127 on: February 19, 2009, 10:59:02 AM »
But I'm not so naive as to discard the fact that parkour in it's pure form is the definition of competition - it's a fight for survival, where the strongest, fittest, most in control live.

When I disagree with competition, I do not mean in this sense. This Is what Parkour is built upon, so I am not one to disagree with it.
Thanks you very much for posting that up Leon, I found that a very insightful post.

~David

Offline Eric Tracy

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #128 on: March 04, 2009, 06:24:21 PM »
lol wow so much stuff has gone up on this board so fast i haven't had time to reply...

on another note i think the team thing would be amazing, this COULD keep it from becoming super competetive...
   -wow so many ideas

but anyways thanks to all who have posted your ideals and beliefs and i hope it goes on in a civilized manner
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Offline PKAB

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #129 on: March 04, 2009, 06:41:49 PM »
Ug this thread is back. I have put everything I think about the matter out already. I am against competition because parkour is about yourself and your goals and competitions would make yourself compare to other traceurs and that would not be good for alot of people. There I am washing my hands of this thread.
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Offline Muhammad

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #130 on: March 04, 2009, 07:31:05 PM »
(Relocated from Columbus, Ohio to Birmingham, UK, in September, 2011)

Offline Muse_of_Fire

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #131 on: March 04, 2009, 07:59:44 PM »
Whether or not parkour ends up in the X-Games, it is very, very likely it will be in the Space Olympics

 :P
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Offline Muhammad

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #132 on: March 04, 2009, 11:08:59 PM »
Whether or not parkour ends up in the X-Games, it is very, very likely it will be in the Space Olympics

 :P

That was awesome LOL
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Offline Chris Parker

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #133 on: March 04, 2009, 11:51:39 PM »
MUSE that was great, it was so stupid it was funny. I couldnt stop laughing at it. Sorry back to the matter at hand.

OK for me I have known about parkour for quite a while and never really got into partaking in it for reasons unkown to myself, but during that time I was reading about it and watching it. As a martial artist of 10+ years, and a hockey player for 5+ I really like the philosophy and state parkour was and is in now. About a year ago I became sick of almost all martial arts and sports due to everybody I knew in it would make everything a competition. I hated it. Even my sensei's told me I need to partake in tournaments with I hated due to the attitudes of those involved. Even without tornaments I was always challenged to do what other of higher rank were doing, but respectfully declined and got ridiculed for being a "chicken". Oh and just to let everybody know this was at more than 8 different dojos, and 5 different tournaments.

I followed the old way of martial arts just like the ways parkour is set to be, with competion. Now dont get me wrong by competition I mean towards myself, to make myself better but also from others in a friendly manner(ill explain a little bit later). Back in our greatx5-10 grandfathers times martial arts were used to make one self better than we were the day before, and make it so we can protect ourselfs if needed. They were not worried with being able to completely destroy or dominate an apponent the're main goal was to survive wether they won or lost. Like my sensei's sensei said to me "There is no use in relying on others for competition, becaue the true demons that press you can only be found within." Though there was competition within dojos in past and present that competition was made to be friendly and helpful.

Like I said earlier competition needs to be friendly and used as a measure for your own progression. For example the first time I went to learn the art of parkour I went to meet up with the colorado springs group. When I first got there I was very nervous and intimidated to be around those that were in far better shape than me and better in every technique. One of the guys there saw how nervous I was when I was trying a vault that everybody else was doing and comparing the height and distance to each other. Now as I am being used to mean/violent competition I was expecting one of these guys to say something mean or ridiculing that would tell me that this is just like the martial arts or sports and say skew this. But he came up to me and said "hey dont be nervous we are all friends here none of us will make fun of you just because you cant do a technique or you screw up. We all started where you are now and we all know what its like to not be able to do what others can do. But this is parkour, this is different from other arts or activities. We are here to help each other and push each other to new levels. Whatever you need help with, just ask and we'll do what we can." (ya I remember that). Those were the best words I've heard in a long time, and made me feel more comfortable and more at home. Ever since that day I have never met a practicitioner who did nothing other than try to help me and give me confidence to do what needs to be done. (cept daily) :-\

So my opinion is that competition is fine in parkour whether it is in the philosophy or not, competition is in everything we do (or it could be). I believe competition needs to be self competition and friendly competition where we help each other out during our times of struggle. An example could be games where we each try our hardest to complete the goal at hand, but say we cannot finish one of the games or dont finish in time. The two teams should then get together and discuss what techniques work and which ones are not as effective. This will also allow each to realize the flaws within themselves and what needs to be practiced. If we went into the x games I believe others would be too concerned with being judged by other, or they would be too concerned with beating the other guy, when they should be saying "whether or not I manage to win or lose this I will be able to see where I need to improve based off my performance." Now in most competitions im pretty sure this happens but in my experience in tournaments my friends/other fighters are not worried about their own techniques and how they perform, they are too worried on how the other fighter will perform and how much is riding on this fight in terms of impressing others ,confidence, etc. They should not be concerned with win or lose but with progress and above all have fun. I dont know about everybody else but I practice martial arts and parkour for nothing other than the love of the arts.
Sorry for the long post, had to get that off my chest for a while. Thanks for listening...er reading :P
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Offline David Jones

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #134 on: March 05, 2009, 08:32:46 AM »
Ug this thread is back. I have put everything I think about the matter out already. I am against competition because parkour is about yourself and your goals and competitions would make yourself compare to other traceurs and that would not be good for alot of people. There I am washing my hands of this thread.

Same, except for I'll keep arguing in this thread :P

Offline Dan Elric

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #135 on: March 05, 2009, 12:34:34 PM »
Ug this thread is back. I have put everything I think about the matter out already. I am against competition because parkour is about yourself and your goals and competitions would make yourself compare to other traceurs and that would not be good for alot of people. There I am washing my hands of this thread.

Same, except for I'll keep arguing in this thread :P

And your point by doing so?

Sat and I have already covered all of the ground.  There's nothing left to discuss.  Let it die.  If competition happens, it happens.
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Offline TR

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #136 on: March 05, 2009, 01:30:03 PM »
Just read: http://parkournorthamerica.com/plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?10639

The main point from that thread:

"My shout out is, dont go too crazy, dont be too negative. A) it doesnt change anything, B) it just f#cks up the Karma. Im in the scene for almost a decade now, and ive seen a lot of things happen. And one thing I learnt (those that are around for longer, know how much I participated in anti-campaigns, politics, etc ) is that negativity, fear and hate, dont help ANYONE.

We cant stop it, we dont even know if there is a need to. Lets be positive but prepared, and make the best of it we can. Lets be a community."

Offline David Jones

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #137 on: March 05, 2009, 05:04:25 PM »
Amen Brotha.

BTW the thread on PKNA turned out a lot better than on here.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 05:09:04 PM by David Jones<djones456 »

Offline SafeNSure

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #138 on: March 31, 2009, 09:23:47 AM »
In case anybody still cares about this...

I don't know about the X-games, but it will be soon on MTV (as pure entertainment, in my understanding...).
If you feel like commenting closer to the source, you can do it here: http://community.mtv.com/Discussion%20Thread/Parkour-Is-NOT-a-competition/0D3FCFFFF01AC2B53000900B29E41

Offline silent0tracuer

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #139 on: March 31, 2009, 11:39:28 AM »
What im about to say is probably going to offend the lot of you but at this point I think it needs to be said. As Americans being raised in a controversial society where raging war and games dont go without competition (for example as young children) we go out with friends and live to compete weather its "racing to the finish line" or seeing who can swim the fastest. We as Americans are accustomed to competition. Though I personally do not favor it most people do and as painful as it is to say America is probably the leading cause of why parkour is going to become based over competition.

This reminds me of how Martial arts and even skateboarding started off, at first they were about sole skating anti-comp and a discipline where attaining strength and valor was necessary, now they are both about competition.

In conclusion its almost inevitable that pk is going to be and already has become competitive.

*Take this as you will but I see it as reaching out and getting this off of my chest.
*In no way do I approve competition but who am I to say!

Hard to say but you do prove the most valid point since the dawn of time it has not been about winning but control. We wage war to control land that is the way it used to be. We have made every sport a compitition it is a human trait striving to be the best and as for pk becoming competition it will. Yes free running will be the sport but we all know that some espn show will want to say "we are heading back to the roots of this sport where the soul came from" and they will call it Parkour despite its philosophy. And exactly as David belle said, he didn’t like the way it was going because some take up this sport and teach it wrong. Those same persons that teach it wrong will be the ones that choose to influence this theory and change it into competition. Then those who are young will worship these men the same way they would a wrestler. And they grow up with all the fun but none of the philosophy. it’s up to us yes we can discuss this topic a million times and a million different ways but it is up to the men and women of APK to stand together and when this sport is infected by competition that leads men to hate men because when calls them self a better traceur. We will be there we must be there to prevent total infection. When this sport becomes a competition we have to beat them to the punch of “taking it back to the roots" and teach what this sport was really founded on. And yes this is a sport in its own way. A sport is based on athletic ability and HONEST COMPETITION which in theory is not the, I beat you factor but the fact that we strive to do our best. Yes you may jump higher and run faster but you grade yourself on skill the world of Parkour grades me on my actions and choices I flow with my own strength not to win but to have fun. That is what we must teach that when the "sport" of Parkour is mistaken for something else we will be its scholars who interpret what this WAY OF LIFE really is. We can call it whatever we want but the fact of the matter remains no matter how pk is taken or translated, we are all MAKING OURSELVES USEFULL. Just as David belle once said but to do that we have to follow pk completely meaning no domination. I can tell you all right now I will celebrate how high I can vault but the reason I will show off is so that when someone else is interested I can make them as strong as me and show them the philosophy. We all must take responsibility and not beat the competition but use it to our advantage. Let it be a part of the x games cause the truth is not all things come in time some things come with time meaning it may be slow or fast and just as we strive to run fast and flow freely we must act fast and liberate this sport from its competition. free running is a cousin of Parkour being that it is more technical, give espn free running but we who hold Parkour believe in the truth that we are strong in mind and body that we are useful and we are the discipline this sport needs.
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