Author Topic: Parkour in the X-Games...  (Read 13824 times)

Offline Sat Santokh

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #140 on: March 31, 2009, 01:56:16 PM »
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We can call it whatever we want but the fact of the matter remains no matter how pk is taken or translated, we are all MAKING OURSELVES USEFULL. Just as David belle once said but to do that we have to follow pk completely meaning no domination.

Yeah?  Why.  Give some basis for your STATEMENTS and not just TALKING.


Offline Sat Santokh

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #141 on: March 31, 2009, 02:01:52 PM »
even skateboarding started off, at first they were about sole skating anti-comp and a discipline where attaining strength and valor was necessary, now they are both about competition.


Hmm actually you're wrong.  Skateboarding started out as a few friends who were violent, law breaking, and mostly resembled a gang.  They also competed in the first competitions.  Where do you even come up with saying something like anti-comp and strength and valor haha it makes no sense at all.

My other point is this: 90% or more skateboarders and climbers and martial artists never compete.  90% of traceurs will never compete either so why does it really matter so much to you people.  If somebody is getting into parkour because they think its fun, good thats what they're there for.  If they get into for some spiritual reason then they will learn about the "philosophy."  Parkour won't affect most of you anyway so why would you be so worried about it.  Do you think that the average Joe Skateboarder who doesn't compete cares that there is a competition?  No why would he, it doesn't effect him except maybe his skate park getting used for it 2 times a year or something.

Offline Todd1

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #142 on: March 31, 2009, 02:30:04 PM »
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Hmm actually you're wrong.  Skateboarding started out as a few friends who were violent, law breaking, and mostly resembled a gang.
Actually, you are wrong too. I know you're probably thinking Dogtown/Z-Boys, but skateboarding started way before that in the 50's.  And most of the pros then were what the Downtown boys would've called "goodie-two-shoes."  Of course when the Zephyr team starting winning all of the contests, the image of skateboarding was changed drastically. 

Having said that, I totally agree with the rest of your post.   
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Offline silent0tracuer

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #143 on: March 31, 2009, 02:51:50 PM »
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We can call it whatever we want but the fact of the matter remains no matter how pk is taken or translated, we are all MAKING OURSELVES USEFULL. Just as David belle once said but to do that we have to follow pk completely meaning no domination.

Yeah?  Why.  Give some basis for your STATEMENTS and not just TALKING.



well not too be rude but why do you have to come in to this thread and just try to kill what were sayin. in  the end we all agree here. but what do you mean by that so i can give you a baisis cause i think i did pretty well makin my point
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Offline silent0tracuer

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #144 on: March 31, 2009, 03:39:44 PM »
and honestly dude im going to be rude in this one. i been reading through this thread and all you do is shoot down people we are having a debate and your shooting down both sides you forget to take one thing into account society itself. YOU make up the 90% that this sport will do nothing for. because you get into the sport practice get good and decide to shoot people down as if your a pro but most of these people here know more about it then you do. just because you know something about it doesnt mean its right so im going to kill a few of your points. parkour does have a philosophy every sport does just ask any REAL athelete/role model. parkour may not do anything for these people but they dont think about that they try to become famous because this is there hope. its common human traits yes we will compete everyone knows that and yes parkour is in term a competition but that doesnt mean we should go around trying to beat every one and make them feel bad cause there not good enough which is what the x-games would make of it. that guy that said "nuff said" was merely proving a point just like everyone he chose to do it through artwork of that picture and you shot him down and called him a tool over it. your being as close minded as the people who would ban you from a park for doing this sort of thing. if parkour did go into the x-games or bigger no one here would cry over it we would all be thrilled about it but we want it done the right way. all you do is shoot people down over it.

on top of that i will say that i agree with alot you say, like the skateboarding origins, it did start out with those kids but those kids had to get the idea from someone else. the guys they got it from were having fun in a safe respectable way. the kids who were violent and all, they took skateboarding and revolutionized it they made it something new but in the wrong way. and martial arts is competition, any master you train from in that will say the objective is to beat the crap out of the opponent. what my statement means is that you are right on alot of things but not all of them, the way you present yourself and talk about others is as if your a d-bag just ripping on people for example(Where do you even come up with saying something like anti-comp and strength and valor haha it makes no sense at all.) he was saying that yes these people compet but thats not completely why they practice there sport is just so they can win. and man who is into the sport will agree that if you win all the time then its just no fun so there has to be more to it then winning which is where the valor and strength come from. and to end all points on it david belle once said that he wished to be useful to others and himselp (not a word for word statement but that is the belief of what he ment) parkour becoming a sport on tv would be greatly useful. its another game for kids to play another way for fat people to loose weight and it will entertain people. try saying that none of those reason are useful. and it will piss off those who believe in only the philosophy but its there job to teach the the philosophy.(which by the way is the same philosophy that any sport will say they follow which is to be strong in body and mind and make good choices blah blah blah. people will make of this sport what they will. so quit hounding on everybody there just voicing there opinion and be open minded dont come off like an A WHOLE.
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Offline Sat Santokh

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #145 on: March 31, 2009, 08:56:22 PM »
and honestly dude im going to be rude in this one. i been reading through this thread and all you do is shoot down people we are having a debate and your shooting down both sides you forget to take one thing into account society itself. YOU make up the 90% that this sport will do nothing for. because you get into the sport practice get good and decide to shoot people down as if your a pro but most of these people here know more about it then you do. just because you know something about it doesnt mean its right so im going to kill a few of your points. parkour does have a philosophy every sport does just ask any REAL athelete/role model. parkour may not do anything for these people but they dont think about that they try to become famous because this is there hope. its common human traits yes we will compete everyone knows that and yes parkour is in term a competition but that doesnt mean we should go around trying to beat every one and make them feel bad cause there not good enough which is what the x-games would make of it. that guy that said "nuff said" was merely proving a point just like everyone he chose to do it through artwork of that picture and you shot him down and called him a tool over it. your being as close minded as the people who would ban you from a park for doing this sort of thing. if parkour did go into the x-games or bigger no one here would cry over it we would all be thrilled about it but we want it done the right way. all you do is shoot people down over it.

on top of that i will say that i agree with alot you say, like the skateboarding origins, it did start out with those kids but those kids had to get the idea from someone else. the guys they got it from were having fun in a safe respectable way. the kids who were violent and all, they took skateboarding and revolutionized it they made it something new but in the wrong way. and martial arts is competition, any master you train from in that will say the objective is to beat the crap out of the opponent. what my statement means is that you are right on alot of things but not all of them, the way you present yourself and talk about others is as if your a d-bag just ripping on people for example(Where do you even come up with saying something like anti-comp and strength and valor haha it makes no sense at all.) he was saying that yes these people compet but thats not completely why they practice there sport is just so they can win. and man who is into the sport will agree that if you win all the time then its just no fun so there has to be more to it then winning which is where the valor and strength come from. and to end all points on it david belle once said that he wished to be useful to others and himselp (not a word for word statement but that is the belief of what he ment) parkour becoming a sport on tv would be greatly useful. its another game for kids to play another way for fat people to loose weight and it will entertain people. try saying that none of those reason are useful. and it will piss off those who believe in only the philosophy but its there job to teach the the philosophy.(which by the way is the same philosophy that any sport will say they follow which is to be strong in body and mind and make good choices blah blah blah. people will make of this sport what they will. so quit hounding on everybody there just voicing there opinion and be open minded dont come off like an A WHOLE.

This may sound weird, but I'm extremely happy that you have decided to respond in the way that you did.  This is a debate, and people cannot fully express their opinions sometimes without having passion, anger, and occasionally rudeness, so by all means, lay it on as hard as you can because it will inspire people to defend their point of view with more passion.

When did I say that none of those reasons would be useful?  Also I'm not really hurt, but I'm a little confused when you said that most people here know more about parkour than me, you don't know me.  And I'm also a little confused by your statement that I make up the 90% that this sport will do nothing for.

Offline silent0tracuer

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #146 on: April 01, 2009, 07:04:32 AM »
i like your point of view and i truthfully have nothing against you. my meaning is whether or not you knew it when you said certain things it came off like you knew little of it like when you were confused on the definition of parkour. it is to get from point a to point b but still that is only a fraction of the definition its more then words and what you do. you may even know more then me but it implied different when you said that statement. same thing for usefulness and yes 90% of them will never be famous or make money from it but that 90% are trying to. they all want either two things the wealth or the fame its common human traits we seek to be better. and i did have time to think about the competition portion(sorry to get off topic) but this is a sport and it going live will benifit us no matter what. x-games, olympics, mtv's ultimate chase. these things will all act as the z boys of parkour. they will revolutionize it and people will research it. i also found that (correct me if im wrong) sebastian foucan himself said he would like this to be a part of law enforcement and even THE OLYMPICS.

sorry i got off topic and probably did not clarify much im in class right now and not allowed to be on this site yet

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Offline Sat Santokh

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #147 on: April 01, 2009, 10:22:23 AM »
I don't necessarily think that people only compete for the wealth or fame.  How many people in this thread actually watch the xgames closely?  The people who actually do watch them would realize a few things.  To start off with, I have never seen any negativity in the decade or so I've been watching them.  Everyone there is best friends with each other, they always congratulate each other and are extremely humble about it when they do win.  When one of them gets injured they are extremely worried about that person, and it is never "oh yeah now i have less competition."  I don't have the best example ready at hand but watch this and skip to about :21 seconds 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkIBkhr1SJU

Really?  Thats what you people who are so against competition are worried about?  They just hugged for about a minute straight, Bob was in tears afterwords and was saying stuff like oh man he did just as good as me we both had an equal shot at winning etc...

So by all you people who are generalizing and saying people will be d-bags if they compete, you are essentially saying that all the people who are skilled enough to compete, are inherently bad people.  Blanket statements can be dangerous, and some of the ones here are pretty much personal attacks on people who I have personally met, trained with, spent time with like Levi, or Ryan.  If these people are present and prevalent in sports like dirt biking, skateboarding, bmx, etc...  Why are you assuming that this won't be possible with parkour?  If anything the people who believe so strongly in the fact that traceurs are "better" in some way or another (a lot more common than you'd think) shouldn't you believe that there is a greater chance of them occurring in parkour? 

Offline silent0tracuer

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #148 on: April 01, 2009, 11:02:54 AM »
your right they are not d-bags to each other but you have to admit just becasue they are nice to each other doesnt mean they want to win. some football players are nice some are not and some sports have people who will honestly feel bad for an injured opponent and some will just act like it for PR every one wants to win but when they honestly do like the people and feel bad for the people they compete against. thats HONEST COMPETITION. the very kind of competition i would like to be apart of pk cause in that case 1 you gave it your all fairly and2 if you win then your actually better then someone else. people of honest competition will congragulate the losers people with out that kind of competition just focus on the fact that they one and find some way to gloat about it. yes x-games is filled with people who care about each other honest competition. but MTV is notorious for exploiting people in a negative way so when they make the "ultimate chase" which is a show based on parkour the only good thing we have on our side is that the people they chose to use for the show will play by honest competition. had they picked the wrong people it would be portrayed wrongly. but they still want the fame and glory they just know they dont have to be an ass to get it
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Offline Scott Steinmetz

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #149 on: April 01, 2009, 11:16:45 AM »
America does have a fixation on competition, but as long as the majority of active traceurs continue to follow the philosophy that IS parkour, no cultural influence can affect that.

And as far as the possible MTV show someone mentioned, I'm not a fan of putting parkour on the network that aired Jackass, I don't think that's the connotation I want to be attached to it... ("OH MAN LOOK AT THAT JUMP, SICK!" isn't what I think when I'm practicing somewhere)
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Offline Todd1

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #150 on: April 01, 2009, 12:28:39 PM »
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and2 if you win then your actually better then someone else.
Sorry, but I disagree.  I think most skaters will tell you that competitions have little to do with who is better than who.  It's more like who was having a better day that particular day.  There was a time when Tony Hawk was competition king.  And no, I'm talking way before X-Games.  From age 12 to nearly 30 he was the most dominant skater in any contest.  But he still had days where he lost.  That doesn't mean he was better than everyone when he was winning and worse when he lost.  I like the idea of healthy competition too, but only in competeing against yourself not others.  It was George Hebert who said when you compete against someone else, you are testing their weaknesses, not your own. 
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Offline silent0tracuer

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #151 on: April 01, 2009, 01:06:15 PM »
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and2 if you win then your actually better then someone else.
Sorry, but I disagree.  I think most skaters will tell you that competitions have little to do with who is better than who.  It's more like who was having a better day that particular day.  There was a time when Tony Hawk was competition king.  And no, I'm talking way before X-Games.  From age 12 to nearly 30 he was the most dominant skater in any contest.  But he still had days where he lost.  That doesn't mean he was better than everyone when he was winning and worse when he lost.  I like the idea of healthy competition too, but only in competeing against yourself not others.  It was George Hebert who said when you compete against someone else, you are testing their weaknesses, not your own. 

i like the compete with yourself theory but i like to compete with others to see if 1 i can do better or 2 they can. my cousin and me get into competitions all the time since then he got alot better at video games and i got to be a better athelete. i dont believe competing will solve all problems but sometimes being able to compare yourself to others in competition makes you push yourself to a degree that you may be more proud of. tony hawk may not have won all the time but even when he did loose im sure him and others may have agreed "man you would have had me if you landed that one move"(which proves your good day bad day statement) but when they had those conversations he would push himself a little farther and you know he would have been more proud of himself when he did land whatever trick they would talk about on that givin day. in my opinion competition is good so long as we get something out of it(something other then a gold medal) even the winner who makes a perfect 10 all across the board should be able to learn something from competition. sometimes comparing yourself to others can make you a better person if not make you realize how hard you have trained or how hard you need to train. heck right now if i was in a comp for anything i would settle with 3rd 4th 5th place it doesnt matter casue if i went into a parkour x-games i would watch others to see how creative they get and see if i can adopt the move.
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Offline silent0tracuer

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #152 on: April 01, 2009, 01:10:24 PM »
and yea parkour being on MTV will suck just because of how people percieve things on MTV. BUT  it being on espn as long as they stated certain things that are desired like some of the things on this thread then i would hold high respects for that show
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Offline Jordan Lerner

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #153 on: April 01, 2009, 02:07:02 PM »
ok, i would like to preface my following statements with a few things:
1) I have not read all of the posts in this thread, just about the first 50 or so, because i'm lazy and i will be the first to admit it. so, if i have missed someone's major argument, i apologize and would like you to correct me.
2) I have been training for all of 6 months now. not a lot of time by most standards, but i have already been able to feel the effect of training on my confidence, my outlook on life, and my physical strength.
3) my first exposures to parkour were through the newspaper, Youtube, and having a class with Sat (in that chronological order).

ok preface done, time for my opinion. i would first like to address the idea that parkour is not about competition. it is. the reason being that training with others improves how we ourselves train. if you see someone throw a 10 foot broadjump, you want to do that same jump, not because you want to be better than that person, but because you know it's possible and you know that you can get there. training with other people means you get to struggle for common goals, and if one person makes that goal, then the others around them want to make that same goal. so parkour is about competition, both with yourself and with other people.
as far as the whole "3 week newbies" thing goes (and i know i made a comment about this in another thread, for which i do stand corrected), there are irresponsible practitioners of every almost sport and discipline. there are people that train martial arts to be able to beat someone up. people hurt themselves all the time training for swimming, for basketball, for running. there are people that consider themselves to be better than everyone else because they practice a certain discipline, some traceurs included. so please do not mark parkour as somehow "purer" than another discipline for any reason. i can guarantee that the same sort of objections were raised when tai-kwon-do was added to the Olympics, but the only outcome i've seen from that is more people responsibly training to better themselves.
Sat made a comment that competition is the next natural step for parkour. while i do not necessarily agree that it is a natural step, i do not think that it would be a detrimental step. like i said, my first exposures to parkour came from the media, and i consider myself to be a responsible and involved practitioner (everyone has some ego, so don't deny me this little pat on the back). i feel that both the MTV parkour show and the X-games/formal competition ideas could be useful tools for people to learn about parkour, and take part if they are interested. there are groups in almost every part of the country dedicated to the advancement of parkour, and if people want to learn, they should be allowed that opportunity. like i said, there will be irresponsible practitioners, but that's something that has to be dealt with. let's face it, a lot of parkour looks super-badass, and people will want to try it. it would be better if people took the proper channels, but not everyone is willing to. that's why steroids are rampant in professional sports: some people just want to look good.
finally, i know that parkour means different things to different people. therefore, what i've said will resonate with some, and strike others as offensive. but that's what parkour is about. i'm going to adapt an old jewish proverb for this: "4 traceurs can look at a wall and come up with 5 different opinions on the best way to get up it."

thank you, and i hope that helps.
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Offline PKAB

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #154 on: April 01, 2009, 07:32:09 PM »
Okay I think we have a perfect example of the spreading of parkour: ESPN: A show about athletes from all over the world and athletic events: Good exposure that will bring athletes to our community that actually will contribute to the development of the parkour community. M-TV: A crazy but cool pretty much party show that will outlook everything on wether it looks cool or not: Bad exposure that will attract people jumping off there roofs in an attempt to look "extreme". I may not be an expert but I think its pretty obvious what kind of attention we want. We want media exposure to show the real side of parkour not just the way it looks. If you look in to it you will find that NONE of the original and foremost practitionars supported the world freerun championship at all. When I first looked into the world freerun championships I felt sick. Is this what we want? All the traceurs striving to be in the world
Freerun championships instead of striving for perfection? All I can picture if we let parkour become this is pretty much pk becoming the next skateboarding. Pretty soon everyone does it noeone conditions and the community is torn apart by people that are aiming to bring down the community rather than aid it.
This is just an opinion please dont dock karma.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 07:34:32 PM by PKAB »
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Offline max eisenberg

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #155 on: April 01, 2009, 09:00:48 PM »
Okay I think we have a perfect example of the spreading of parkour: ESPN: A show about athletes from all over the world and athletic events: Good exposure that will bring athletes to our community that actually will contribute to the development of the parkour community. M-TV: A crazy but cool pretty much party show that will outlook everything on wether it looks cool or not: Bad exposure that will attract people jumping off there roofs in an attempt to look "extreme". I may not be an expert but I think its pretty obvious what kind of attention we want. We want media exposure to show the real side of parkour not just the way it looks. If you look in to it you will find that NONE of the original and foremost practitionars supported the world freerun championship at all. When I first looked into the world freerun championships I felt sick. Is this what we want? All the traceurs striving to be in the world
Freerun championships instead of striving for perfection? All I can picture if we let parkour become this is pretty much pk becoming the next skateboarding. Pretty soon everyone does it noeone conditions and the community is torn apart by people that are aiming to bring down the community rather than aid it.
This is just an opinion please dont dock karma.

free running was the new skate boarding for a little while. hardly anyone knows what parkour is.

parkour wont ever be the new skateboarding thing, its just not exciting enough to the untrained eye. you add a flip off a building and suddenly the whole world wants to watch, you finally perfect that monkey to precision and people tell you to stop jumping around.

parkour could never be in the x games, it just doesnt naturally have a place to fit into, its not an extreme sport.

free running however could easily be put into the x games, just because people want to watch other people flip off buildings.


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Offline PKAB

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #156 on: April 02, 2009, 05:08:31 AM »
Yes but now flips are parkour look on the front page david belle announced it. This basicly eliminates this whole pk and fr are different things crap. Freerunning is just a mindset and now its not even that. America is the last place with that problem though. Its official now pk and fr are the same thing. Iv already posted my thoughts on this thread and frankly I just want it to die.
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Offline Todd1

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #157 on: April 02, 2009, 05:16:33 AM »
lol PKAB, did you forget yesterday's date?  It was a joke.

And silent0traceur, good post.  I agree with you all the way about pushing each other further.  That is the really good thing about training with others as well as friendly competition, we can feed off of each other to improve ourselves.  But even then (for me at least) it's still about beating myself, not the other guy.
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Offline max eisenberg

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #158 on: April 02, 2009, 07:08:37 AM »
i would shy away from classifying it as competition, in competition there is always a winner and a loser.

it shows us that the possibility is there yes, competition can also lead you to take stupid risks and do things you arent ready for.


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Offline Jordan Lerner

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Re: Parkour in the X-Games...
« Reply #159 on: April 02, 2009, 07:37:30 AM »
i would shy away from classifying it as competition, in competition there is always a winner and a loser.

it shows us that the possibility is there yes, competition can also lead you to take stupid risks and do things you arent ready for.

that brings us back to the idea of irresponsible training. there is going to be some, but it's up to practitioners to know their own limits. as for the competition, yes there is a winner and a loser. but people are either going to be sore losers and egotists, or they are going to show humility and willingness to better themselves. that's how competition works. the difference is that some dwell upon its outcome and others accept what has happened and train harder for it. just because someone is a "winner" doesn't mean they need to classify themselves (or be classified as) better than the people they train with. I am well aware that, of the people i train with, i am the weakest traceur, both physically and technically. but that doesn't mean that i resent the people i train with. it means i want to be able to do what they do and to emulate them. it is a competition, but not an unhealthy one.
"Parkour: shift the way you move."

"LET IT BE KNOWN THAT OREGON PARKOUR IN NO WAY SUPPORTS ACCIDENTALLY DROPPING BABIES OUT OF THE WOMB DURING CAT LEAPS" - Stuuuuu