Topic: Parkour in the X-Games...

[Sat Santokh]

parkour will be ruined just like every other thing that has become commericialized

i mean i got interested in parkour because not a huge percentage of people practice it
i just think if everyone practiced parkour then i wouldn't really be different anymore
i mean sure some people would have higher skill levels than others but if everyone did it, i just don't think it would be that special to me anymore

furthermore, people will probably come up with even more different "types" of parkour like freerunning and tricking. eventually, there would be even more debate whether this is actually parkour and it will only branch out from there and become so refined, until it is completely ruined and people practicing it don't even know who david belle or sebastian foucan is...

and in the end, the spirit of parkour will be completely destroyed once it is deemed an "extreme sport" and added to the x-games lineup 

Your exactly right. Competition puts a cloud over what the real intentions for these activities are. We do not train to win a competition, we train "To be and to last", and "To be strong to be useful"! Parkour, Free running, and many other activities are being practiced all for the wrong reasons. This controversy is all too common for me because I also skateboard. I've been skateboarding since about 3rd grade (Now in 11th) and the last thing I ever thought about was competing. The worst part is that now this is all the skating is about to the general mass, and they base your skill by how many different variations of a flip you can do! This is why I transitioned into long boarding and riding retro decks, because there is no push to be better than others, only yourself.

I think the idea of being a non competitive discipline should stick and if there is competition, they should go about using a new name. I know that Asics had a "Parcouring Championship" by the way...


Peace and love,

David

I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

[David Jones]

Well Parkour is also widely known (In the community of traceurs) to be a non-competitive discipline. I was also just providing examples of what competitions like this being started can do. Idk if you are seriously confused or trying to make a fool of me.

[David Jones]

BTW if you really want competition, here you go.... Asics Parcouring World Championships

[Dan Elric]

I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?

[Alec Furtado]

tricking or freerunning would be the right name. Parkour it point a-b. You could have a pakour race.

Yea, exactly. There doesn't need to be a new name. If it's a tricking competition, then call it a tricking competition. If it's an obstacle course competition, call it Ninja Warrior

[Broc]

parkour will be ruined just like every other thing that has become commericialized

i mean i got interested in parkour because not a huge percentage of people practice it
i just think if everyone practiced parkour then i wouldn't really be different anymore
i mean sure some people would have higher skill levels than others but if everyone did it, i just don't think it would be that special to me anymore

furthermore, people will probably come up with even more different "types" of parkour like freerunning and tricking. eventually, there would be even more debate whether this is actually parkour and it will only branch out from there and become so refined, until it is completely ruined and people practicing it don't even know who david belle or sebastian foucan is...

and in the end, the spirit of parkour will be completely destroyed once it is deemed an "extreme sport" and added to the x-games lineup 

Your exactly right. Competition puts a cloud over what the real intentions for these activities are. We do not train to win a competition, we train "To be and to last", and "To be strong to be useful"! Parkour, Free running, and many other activities are being practiced all for the wrong reasons. This controversy is all too common for me because I also skateboard. I've been skateboarding since about 3rd grade (Now in 11th) and the last thing I ever thought about was competing. The worst part is that now this is all the skating is about to the general mass, and they base your skill by how many different variations of a flip you can do! This is why I transitioned into long boarding and riding retro decks, because there is no push to be better than others, only yourself.

I think the idea of being a non competitive discipline should stick and if there is competition, they should go about using a new name. I know that Asics had a "Parcouring Championship" by the way...


Peace and love,

David

I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

Sure it is...when your not being competative about it...

i think parkour becoming competative is inevitable but in my opinion its immoral to the sport and what david belle created it to be. i was just giving examples on what will happen once it does become competative...

didn't mean to spark all this conflict between people(i've noticed sat just jumps on something he doesn't believe is right)...don't get all worked up cause its not what you believe...i respect your opinion i'm just voicing mine  

[David Jones]

I second that all the way.

[Ryan Nicolai]

didn't mean to spark all this conflict between people(i've noticed sat just jumps on something he doesn't believe is right)...don't get all worked up cause its not what you believe...i respect your opinion i'm just voicing mine  

Boo, just boo. -1. I personally have almost no problem with Sat. He gives this place that edge where you can't just sit on your hands and say that you think this or that. He pushes you back... ok, maybe he punches you in the face. Anyways, he forces people to go on the offense and say why they think that. Everybody just wants to fill justified in their opinions and don't actually care for a different opinion. Just my opinion.

[Sat Santokh]

I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?

Something I'd like to point out is that just because lots of people think something is true, that doesn't make it so.  PARKOUR IS THE DESIRE TO BE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER.  Lets take a quote from somebody on some other page.  The "be strong to be useful" what is being strong?  Without something to relate it to there is no such thing as strong.  A moderately active 14 year old is "strong" in a community of 90 year olds with Alzheimer's  in wheelchairs.  That means that inherently, being strong is competitive.

[Milquetoast]

I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?

Something I'd like to point out is that just because lots of people think something is true, that doesn't make it so.  PARKOUR IS THE DESIRE TO BE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER.  Lets take a quote from somebody on some other page.  The "be strong to be useful" what is being strong?  Without something to relate it to there is no such thing as strong.  A moderately active 14 year old is "strong" in a community of 90 year olds with Alzheimer's  in wheelchairs.  That means that inherently, being strong is competitive.

I really don't agree with that, Sat.  My competition is only with myself.  While I am often inspired by (the oh so many) others who can do things I cannot, I really never have an urge to outdo them but only to be able to do more myself.

Having said that, however, I actually support organized Parkour-esq competition.  I think it'll be great entertainment and should help inspire others.  I just feel that we should respect the founder of Parkour by changing the name.  And it doesn't have to be drastically different -- afterall, this will be a sport born of (traditional) Parkour and it will be important to pay homage to its roots.  While it would kind of suck for a sport this young to have yet another split, it kind of is the inevitable result when the founder is both so dogmatic and so reclusive...

[Broc]

I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?

PARKOUR IS THE DESIRE TO BE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER. 

The desire to be better than each other? Really?
I thought it was the desire to be better than yourself?!

[Broc]

didn't mean to spark all this conflict between people(i've noticed sat just jumps on something he doesn't believe is right)...don't get all worked up cause its not what you believe...i respect your opinion i'm just voicing mine  

Boo, just boo. -1. I personally have almost no problem with Sat. He gives this place that edge where you can't just sit on your hands and say that you think this or that. He pushes you back... ok, maybe he punches you in the face. Anyways, he forces people to go on the offense and say why they think that. Everybody just wants to fill justified in their opinions and don't actually care for a different opinion. Just my opinion.

alright i can agree that you should explain why you believe something but i don't feel that he has or should have the power to call someone a tool...and did i not say that i respect others opinions?

[Sat Santokh]

I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?

Something I'd like to point out is that just because lots of people think something is true, that doesn't make it so.  PARKOUR IS THE DESIRE TO BE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER.  Lets take a quote from somebody on some other page.  The "be strong to be useful" what is being strong?  Without something to relate it to there is no such thing as strong.  A moderately active 14 year old is "strong" in a community of 90 year olds with Alzheimer's  in wheelchairs.  That means that inherently, being strong is competitive.

I really don't agree with that, Sat.  My competition is only with myself.  While I am often inspired by (the oh so many) others who can do things I cannot, I really never have an urge to outdo them but only to be able to do more myself.

Having said that, however, I actually support organized Parkour-esq competition.  I think it'll be great entertainment and should help inspire others.  I just feel that we should respect the founder of Parkour by changing the name.  And it doesn't have to be drastically different -- afterall, this will be a sport born of (traditional) Parkour and it will be important to pay homage to its roots.  While it would kind of suck for a sport this young to have yet another split, it kind of is the inevitable result when the founder is both so dogmatic and so reclusive...

I don't really know if he's that dogmatic.  (change of subject not directed at you)  I think a lot of people here are misunderstanding what David Belle's philosophy is and what parkour is about.  David Belle started parkour for his reason of being strong to be useful etc... He didn't, in my opinion, mean for parkour to have some deep philosophy to it that people would start following like a religion.  That was just his path.  My evidence for this is the fact that David really doesn't give a shit about parkour.  He just sort of does it and whatever other people want to do is fine by him.  

Back to your post.  Again I really don't agree with the "I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other."  I believe that it is about being better than other people because otherwise you wouldn't be able to get away from the rapist chasing you, or you being able to catch the guy that just stole something.  

[Milquetoast]

I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?

Something I'd like to point out is that just because lots of people think something is true, that doesn't make it so.  PARKOUR IS THE DESIRE TO BE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER.  Lets take a quote from somebody on some other page.  The "be strong to be useful" what is being strong?  Without something to relate it to there is no such thing as strong.  A moderately active 14 year old is "strong" in a community of 90 year olds with Alzheimer's  in wheelchairs.  That means that inherently, being strong is competitive.

I really don't agree with that, Sat.  My competition is only with myself.  While I am often inspired by (the oh so many) others who can do things I cannot, I really never have an urge to outdo them but only to be able to do more myself.

Having said that, however, I actually support organized Parkour-esq competition.  I think it'll be great entertainment and should help inspire others.  I just feel that we should respect the founder of Parkour by changing the name.  And it doesn't have to be drastically different -- afterall, this will be a sport born of (traditional) Parkour and it will be important to pay homage to its roots.  While it would kind of suck for a sport this young to have yet another split, it kind of is the inevitable result when the founder is both so dogmatic and so reclusive...

I don't really know if he's that dogmatic.  (change of subject not directed at you)  I think a lot of people here are misunderstanding what David Belle's philosophy is and what parkour is about.  David Belle started parkour for his reason of being strong to be useful etc... He didn't, in my opinion, mean for parkour to have some deep philosophy to it that people would start following like a religion.  That was just his path.  My evidence for this is the fact that David really doesn't give a shit about parkour.  He just sort of does it and whatever other people want to do is fine by him.  

Back to your post.  Again I really don't agree with the "I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other."  I believe that it is about being better than other people because otherwise you wouldn't be able to get away from the rapist chasing you, or you being able to catch the guy that just stole something.  

I don't know what DB is really thinking, either.  I just assumed he had a desire to keep Parkour "pure" based on the very limited interviews of him.

But competing with a rapist or a thief is not the same as competing with a fellow traceur, right?  Assuming all traceurs and traceuses are more-or-less true to the philosophy, the only metric that matters is how many situations they themselves can get out of.  It doesn't matter if you're faster than another traceur in a competition, it only matters if you're fast enough when the emergency situation presents itself.  Even if you're faster than every other traceur in a competition, you still need to get faster because you just might run into a situation that will require more speed.

I guess what I'm saying is that, from my understanding, the goals of competition and the fundamental goals of Parkour are different.  In a competition, the goal is to beat everyone else.  Once you've beat everyone else, you're done.  There's nothing left to do unless someone else beats your time.  On the other hand, when training (the current version of) Parkour, you're only done when you fail to get out of a situation and pay with your life.  You always need to train yourself to get stronger and faster because every bit will increase your chances of surviving yet another emergency situation.

Btw, I'm not saying that I'm training myself day-in, day-out to increase my chances of surviving a fantastical situation.  I just do it because it's fun and I like to be able to do cool stuff (I guess I'm more of a freerunner than a traceur).  But, from all the articles and interviews I've read, this is what I've gathered about Parkour philosophy.

[Dan Elric]

I thought we trained to get from point a to point b as fast, and efficiently as possible?  Isn't that what parkour is?  I'm confused.

That's only if the definition of parkour could be put in words.  We both know the true definition of parkour can't be put into words - it can only be spoken in the language of movement.
I like to think parkour has transcended humanity's desire to be better than each other.  There is no wrestling of flesh and blood.  All traceurs are united on the same side, the same team.  We're all fighting the individual battle against ourselves.  The only way to in in parkour is be better than you were before.  Being better than someone else proves absolutely nothing.

Let me ask you something, why do you want to win?  What drives you to become number one?

Something I'd like to point out is that just because lots of people think something is true, that doesn't make it so.  PARKOUR IS THE DESIRE TO BE BETTER THAN EACH OTHER.  Lets take a quote from somebody on some other page.  The "be strong to be useful" what is being strong?  Without something to relate it to there is no such thing as strong.  A moderately active 14 year old is "strong" in a community of 90 year olds with Alzheimer's  in wheelchairs.  That means that inherently, being strong is competitive.

You bring up an excellent point.  In a real situation it could be person vs. environment vs. person.  But that type of competition has drastic consequences if you fail.  And strong is a relevant word, so yes we do compare ourselves to others in that respect.

[PKAB]

Okay we all know that parkour wasnt developed as a sport or something competitive. Lets look at how competition would affect the Parkour Community. First of all the xgames competetors. They would now be celebs. In the eyes of other Traceurs they would become "idols" instead of fellow Traceurs. Second of all Rivalry. Xgames parkour comps would trickle down to have minor comps. Competition always comes with rivalry and this would greatly affect the community. Third the TRaceurs that dont want competition would be cought up in all of it and parkour wouldnt be the same for them. Lastly the art. Parkour would be swept up in commercialism extremely fast. Basicy Parkour would indefinetly become the next skatebaording if it became an Xgame. I think we need to protect Parkour values and community. I cant think of another sport that has a community as close as the Parkour community. THis is many Traceurs favorite thing about Parkour. I dont want to see the community chopped up into teams and idols and commercialsim. THis is just my opinion though but I still want to see parkours values preserved.

[Sat Santokh]

Okay we all know that parkour wasnt developed as a sport or something competitive. Lets look at how competition would affect the Parkour Community. First of all the xgames competetors. They would now be celebs. In the eyes of other Traceurs they would become "idols" instead of fellow Traceurs. Second of all Rivalry. Xgames parkour comps would trickle down to have minor comps. Competition always comes with rivalry and this would greatly affect the community. Third the TRaceurs that dont want competition would be cought up in all of it and parkour wouldnt be the same for them. Lastly the art. Parkour would be swept up in commercialism extremely fast. Basicy Parkour would indefinetly become the next skatebaording if it became an Xgame. I think we need to protect Parkour values and community. I cant think of another sport that has a community as close as the Parkour community. THis is many Traceurs favorite thing about Parkour. I dont want to see the community chopped up into teams and idols and commercialsim. THis is just my opinion though but I still want to see parkours values preserved.

I have to go to class so this will be brief.  Your point about celebs.  Celebs or role models?  These already exist in the parkour community to a huge extent.  Your saying you don't "idolize" any other traceur even a little bit?  We'll use an example, almost everyone in America looks up to Levi right?  How would this change anything with competition?  Explain how the competition would greatly affect the community don't just state it.  Third) How would the traceurs that don't want competition be caught up in it?  They just don't compete and they keep training in their own little world.  The art) Parkour is 1) already commercialized 2) is only going to be more commercialized with or without competition 3) Thats not necessarily always a bad thing.  I can think of a community as close as the parkour community and you can see it every summer in august.  The X-games.  The guys that they are competing against are all their best friends.  They are so nice and encouraging to each other.  I have never ever seen anybody say oh I hope he falls and I win.  It's always about how much respect they have for the guy that just came in below them.  90% of people practicing parkour won't ever be on a team so I don't see how the community would be chopped into teams and idols and commercialism.

[TR]

Competition is inherent in parkour

Now take that finger off the caps lock  and listen to this

   As traceurs, we all strive for self-improvement, and to do so successfully in the long term, we have to be smart about it. This means we have to know our limits, and know how to gauge progress so that we neither hurt ourselves in haste nor grow stagnant, satisfied with maintenance. Our focus (in terms of the quantifiable goals we set) should be constant self-improvement about all else, and to the exclusion of all else.
   Now, what is competition? It is the defining attribute of a setting or situation in which the determined goal is to exceed, outdo, dominate (etc.) a peer in some demonstration of skill or ability. At first this seems to be complementary to the idea of self-improvement - after all, a little competition pushes us to try harder, right? Right (no sarcasm in case anyone reading this is confused). However, not all competition is beneficial to the parkour lifestyle - only smart competition.
   Competition against other people is very un-smart. Every body is different, so to set a standard for YOUR body based on what someone else's can do is nonsensical, and such a standard will almost never be exactly aligned with what your goals would be based on the criteria in paragraph 1. When, then, is competition complementary, and even essential to parkour?When you compete against yourself.

There is only one traceur you should ever strive to outdo: yourself two weeks ago.

Um... I think it's very obvious that Parkour is a very self driven thing, and that you are always looking to better yourself.

Competition in general terms means: one person vs others or whatever variation you may want..

If your case that competition is against yourself, which should be the first thing any Traceur learns, then there would be no point for an actual competition where people compete against each other for some title, reward, or recognition is completely unnecessary.

Besides, we are talking about the X-Games here, of course it's going to be against each other. How would you have a competition where you compete against yourself? They have a pre-made course and you do it a couple times trying to beat your best time? Talk about boring. Even then, it would be the same course where internally people want to have the best time and beat others.

As I already said, introducing competition, people will get into Parkour for the wrong reasons, they won't care about the values of Parkour, they will only strive to be the best for the competition for whatever the out-come may bring.

Sorry, I don't think competition(one vs. another) is ever worth trying to set up for Parkour, and even freerunning for that matter. Competition(vs yourself) ... self explanatory, there's no need for an event.

[Sat Santokh]

You guys all need to realize something.  Competition has already happened, and will only continue to grow.  Instead of bitching about how competition is bad do something constructive so that it won't be bad.  There's literally almost nothing you small group of people can do besides not compete, which I'm guessing most of you wouldn't be able to do anyway (not that i can either).  So seriously why don't you guys think of some productive and constructive input that you think will help parkour/free running competitions not be the absolute worst case scenario that you all seem to think is automatically going to happen. 

[David Jones]

'Nuff Said.

There was no bitching until you called me a "Tool" for putting this up. The whole reason I put that up is because it's a way to show how the masses of traceurs think that competition is wrong, with no bitching in there whatsoever. So either way for me it's a lose lose situation because you either blow me off as a "Tool" and tell me to put some note worthy stuff up, and then tell me that I'm bitching (<And should stop) when I listened to your first piece of advice.

~David