Topic: Steroids

[Akar]

I want to know more about these, because someone I know is in question about them and I need some sound arguments to tell them they shouldn't use them.  But someone else I know is trying to convince them that steroids can be beneficial, while I try to tell them it isn't worth the risk.  If possible, specifically with the endurance athlete in mind.

[Chris Salvato]

What are your friend's goals?  If its to be a competitive world class body builder and he has been lifting for 10 years or more, then steroids are likely the only way he can get to that level.  I will put my savings down that your friend is NOT in this category.

What are his motives for using steroids?  Does he want to get big or have sick endurance?  Either way, both are not good for you

[Akar]

Endurance running.  And to get stronger in general, but mostly for the purpose of running.

[Chris Salvato]

What steroids is he looking at?

[Akar]

Anabolic.

[Chris Salvato]

What endurance athletes usually want are drugs that dope their blood -- in other words, they give themselves transfusions with blood that has higher concentrations of red blood cells OR give themselves shots of erythropoiten (EPO) which stimulates red blood cell production.

Anabolic steroids (growth hormones, etc) are not typically what people in his position use because anabolic steroids allow for rapid, abnormal muscle growth.

To quote a world class trainer of novices, Mark Rippetoe, "There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a pussy. Let me be clear here: if you'd rather take steroids than do your squats heavy and drink enough milk, then you are a f#cking Pussy. I have no time or patience for f#cking Pussies. Please tell everyone you know that I said this. "

If you want to get big, squat heavy and drink your milk.  If you want to get fast, run hard and fast.  If you want to be able to run forever, start running forever - and do some altitude training if you are fortunate enough to have access to that.

[Mathew C]

Your friend's goals seem kind of vague. Is he a competitive athlete, a non-competitive over-achieving athlete?

And why exactly does he think he might need steroids? Is he trying to get to a certain level by a certain time? Has he hit a seemingly impossible plateau?

[FastGuppy]

Can give cancer and it will make your winky smaller. That and you will only be strong for a short-while. If you do it through hard-work, you will be able to stay stronger for longer. What my coaches tell me at any rate. 

I’ve been drug tested 5 times in competitive events and I know some dopers. There are some bad side effects that they have. The reason why they are unethical is because when people start doing them they are taking unnecessary risks which everyone else doesn’t really want to take part of. In some sports it is almost to the point now where you have to do drugs to play at the top level. SO unless your friend wants his winky small, a bad case of depression, or some cancer to top things off, I’d recommend not doing drugs. It defeats the point of being healthy and it is altogether unfair for other athletes. BTW, getting good drugs is hard and expensive and the likelihood is he doesn’t have 10,000 dollars to buy it from a doctor. The cheap stuff always has aids. I don’t know this personally; I just read it and heard it from others.

Just a side note with parkour, a lot of it is skill so steroids won’t help as much. It may make you stronger, support your own body weight, push more pounds, and jump a little higher, but it won’t give you the parkour smarts, which is a lot of it. The strength is really a vice which can be obtained by almost anyone with decent shape.  Technique has more to do with it.

Correct me if I’m wrong

[Mathew C]

Can give cancer and it will make your winky smaller. That and you will only be strong for a short-while. If you do it through hard-work, you will be able to stay stronger for longer. What my coaches tell me at any rate. 

I’ve been drug tested 5 times in competitive events and I know some dopers. There are some bad side effects that they have. The reason why they are unethical is because when people start doing them they are taking unnecessary risks which everyone else doesn’t really want to take part of. In some sports it is almost to the point now where you have to do drugs to play at the top level. SO unless your friend wants his winky small, a bad case of depression, or some cancer to top things off, I’d recommend not doing drugs. It defeats the point of being healthy and it is altogether unfair for other athletes. BTW, getting good drugs is hard and expensive and the likelihood is he doesn’t have 10,000 dollars to buy it from a doctor. The cheap stuff always has aids. I don’t know this personally; I just read it and heard it from others.

Just a side note with parkour, a lot of it is skill so steroids won’t help as much. It may make you stronger, support your own body weight, push more pounds, and jump a little higher, but it won’t give you the parkour smarts, which is a lot of it. The strength is really a vice which can be obtained by almost anyone with decent shape.  Technique has more to do with it.

Correct me if I’m wrong

Correction:
Strength is not a vice
Strength is a virtue

[Chris Salvato]

I didn't want to go into too much detail but now I feel there is no choice here  There was a lot that was correct in your post and some that was incorrect -- so i feel that we can benefit from seeing what was true and what was not.

NOTE: This is written with a MALE target audience in mind.  Most females here wouldn't even consider anabolic hormones so I won't really touch on that.

Can give cancer

True.  Anything that promotes growth has a higher incidence of causing cancer.

it will make your winky smaller.

Kind of true but not really.  Most people notice a decrease in testicle size but an increase in penis size.

Your testicles go through more than just "shrinkage" though.  The cells in your testicles see that they don't need to produce as much testosterone, in most cases, depending on the hormone.  This causes them to have problems developing sex hormones in the future which can lead to impotence and the infamous "bitch tits" (as they are called in Fight Club) due to hormonal imbalances that occur after one stops using these drugs.

That and you will only be strong for a short-while. If you do it through hard-work, you will be able to stay stronger for longer. What my coaches tell me at any rate.

Worded badly.  Somewhat true or totally untrue depending on how you read it.

You will only have the increased mass for a period of time after use.  This is because your body cannot stimulate the muscles in the way the drugs can to maintain/increase the size that is attained with these drugs.  The muscle mass goes back down to a more normal level.  Strength is related to muscle mass, but the main component is really neurological adaptation (in other words, your body learns how to use its parts properly to be strong).  Most strength can be gained/maintained despite drug use.  The increased muscle mass, however, does help to give athletes a competitive edge.

The reason why they are unethical is because when people start doing them they are taking unnecessary risks which everyone else doesn’t really want to take part of. In some sports it is almost to the point now where you have to do drugs to play at the top level.

I agree with you here -- sadly, I am convinced it is *all* sports...especially those on a global scale with a heavy strength component (like olympic weightlifting...)

This is just another reason to be a recreational competitive athlete and avoid pro sports -- become a doctor who can clean 300# -- not a juicer who can clean #500.  One is smart and strong.  The other is stupid and strong.

BTW, getting good drugs is hard and expensive and the likelihood is he doesn’t have 10,000 dollars to buy it from a doctor.  

There are some cases where your doctor would give you shots of hormones like Human Growth Hormone or Testosterone.  Usually this is because of a physiological problem that inhibits your body from making these on your own.  In these cases, it is covered by insurance.  Any doctor who gives it to you just because you want it is a criminal.

Good stuff isn't hard to find, either.  Just go to a bodybuilding gym and make friends.  If you train seriously enough for long enough you will be able to find out who uses juice and how to get it...this is why there is such a problem in high schools these days with kids juicing well before their bodies finish developing

The cheap stuff always has aids. I don’t know this personally; I just read it and heard it from others.

You can only get AIDS from shared needles.  If you have sterilized needles, there is no risk of getting AIDS.

Typically, the drugs purchased for use in the USA are from veterinary sources.  You can get these without a Rx if you order them properly...this is what most people use here since animal and human hormones are very similar.

Don't share needles at any time in your life - for any reason - ever.

Just a side note with parkour, a lot of it is skill so steroids won’t help as much. It may make you stronger, support your own body weight, push more pounds, and jump a little higher, but it won’t give you the parkour smarts, which is a lot of it. The strength is really a vice which can be obtained by almost anyone with decent shape.  Technique has more to do with it.

Technique is huge, I agree.

Strength is just as important though, i wouldn't consider it a "vice".

[Patrick Yang]

The cheap stuff always has aids. I don’t know this personally; I just read it and heard it from others.

You can only get AIDS from shared needles.  If you have sterilized needles, there is no risk of getting AIDS.

Typically, the drugs purchased for use in the USA are from veterinary sources.  You can get these without a Rx if you order them properly...this is what most people use here since animal and human hormones are very similar.

Don't share needles at any time in your life - for any reason - ever.

If I could pick a nit here, HIV is what is transmitted through shared needles, not AIDS.  The human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) is the pathogen which, if left untreated, can eventually lead to an acquired syndrome of immunodeficiency (AIDS).  People who are HIV positive can go years without a diagnosis of AIDS.

It's just a pet peeve of mine.


EDIT: Forgot to add that Chris is correct.  Don't ever share needles.  Ever.

[tombb]

I agree with Chris and the corrections he made.

On the cancer one in particular however I would say to keep it into context that even any hormone that your body naturally produces (GH, testosterone etc) is also technically something that promotes cancer growth and increases risk. The difference of course is that taking them as injections your body doesn't get to regulate them and balance other things when secreting them, and you are also more likely to use much higher dosages than what you would be exposed to physiologically, so that's why they can be bad.

Also one note on what Chris mentioned in terms of endurance and using transfusions or erythropoietin, one interesting thing is that there is also another 'natural' way to have the same effect, basically staying in high altitudes (say up in the mountains) for a few days and nights, the body adjusts in the same way to adapt to the more rarefied air.  Similarly I think some athletes sleep in special rooms that are maintained at lower atmospheric pressure to get that effect, so I guess for the case of the transfusions or erythropoietin, it's really more about being lazy or using a more convenient way but they are basically the same as doing that sort of pre-competition 'special training'.

Another important note on steroids is that they only enhance one or two aspects of your genetics, so unless you were predisposed to grow tons of muscles except for a single weak chain in say testosterone levels, you still probably won't get muscles as easily as someone else with perfect genetics.  They can be very very good and useful (for example for people with muscle-wasting diseases), but chances are your friend is just taking them because he hopes they will be a miracle fix in place of hard work and exercise knowledge, and that's incorrect.  That's also because they will likely generate imbalanced results if you try to get your muscles just from that, especially if he doesn't want to start taking 10 different kinds, whereas exercise addresses muscle growth from a lot of different angles.

He should work on learning and trying out training harder/better first anyways, even if he was planning to be a professional bodybuilder some day and wanted to use them at some point to stay competitive, since he will need to learn that anyways, and messing with something as effective as steroids is like just messing with random prescription medicines, not a good idea and you are just more likely to cause some serious harm to yourself.

[Spencer B]

We have a bodybuilding clique at my school... 

A good majority of them are in my strength training class. And me being as utterly beastly as I am impressed them and that is how I was propositioned to use steroids. However, I knew that it would not help me in any with my parkour, so...

Parkour- The Anti-Drug

(Not like I'd ever do them anyways)