Topic: A sad sight....

[NICK DAGGER]

When I'm out training at one of my favorite spots, I often see the Segway  family. About 6 to 8 people or so, all riding on segways. Now here's the kicker, they all wear helmets. I just don't understand some people. How can people be that lazy? They see me training, and I wonder what they think, seeing me move through my environment using my BODY rather than an electrical transport, and wearing no protective gear.
Oh god and I sometimes see children with them on those damn things.

[Eli Kurtz]

I can't quite understand how a person could be going fast enough on a Segway to absolutely require a helmet, but it's better safe than sorry, right?

Granted, they could have saved thousands of dollars per piece if they just bought some nice running shoes.  If they're all that into helmets, they could have bought bikes, instead... or just worn the helmets while they're running.

[NICK DAGGER]

They must be extreme segway tricksters or something just traveling from one ramp to another.

[Charles Moreland]

I hope this won't be taken in a bad light, because to a certain extent, I agree with you. However, I believe the sad sight for me is you coming here and posting something so negative and elitist.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with people exercising their freedom to pursue that which gives them happiness. This is an unalienable right that everyone is entitled to, including you, who simply decides to spend free time differently. Their being on Segways, and their wearing helmets does not affect you in any direct way. So learn to leave it.

Certainly it's a hard thing to understand and harder thing to exercise, that is when you know that perhaps another person is unconsciously causing themselves bodily harm, or disadvantage. But it's their body and their choice.

I think it'd be interesting to see what humanity might be like if every last person were challenged and succeeded and did everything in their power to be tip top shape physically and mentally (very Sparta-esque). But we've evolved from that very puritanical mentality towards society and frankly, who are you to tell someone how to live their life?

Evolution has decided how we spend our lives, and certainly years and years ago, it was absolutely necessary to always be tip top shape. That's how we've survived and come to modern fruition of what humanity is. But you need to realize, that evolution is fighting a different battle. We don't have to fight or migrate for food for immediate survival. We don't necessarily need to exercise intensely to lead productive and meaningful lives. We get by with very little.

In the instance these people continue to do these activities, and yet question why they suffer disease, illness, or the effects of early aging, then yes we should pity them and reach out to them and help them. There are still hundreds of thousands of people who continue to smoke despite the very convincing research on it. Either their addicted (which isn't even a reasonable excuse now a days) or they continue because they simply don't care.

Is this sad? In my eyes yes, but who am I to judge the direction of another persons life. I do and act on what makes me happy. Exercising right, eating right, challenging my bodily limitations, and pursuing more knowledge does that for me, which is why I continue to do it. I am the judge of myself and myself alone.

[tombb]

I definitely agree with Charles, you really don't want to be so elitist and judgmental.

You don't even know quite what they do and why they do it.  You don't even know if they exercise less than you for example, they might be getting plenty of exercise at other times and just do that to relax and spend some fun family time together.
Not only that but it could even be something more serious, like one of them could have a health problem that doesn't let them play sports or run around and they all spent considerable time and money to be able to spend time with their sick family member.

Either way, you shouldn't look down on others because they are not spending 100% of the time doing what you like doing, people have different goals and different interests, and trust me we are all better for it.

Part of the reason we get to do fun activities like Parkour is that other people chose not to spend all their time just training their bodies and watching their diets and instead found cures and ways to contain infectious plagues or political conflicts that could have wiped us all out, regardless of fitness level or skill.

[NICK DAGGER]

I see, thanks guys for letting me see this in a new way. I never really saw myself as a judgmental person, but now I see that I can be.  There are a bunch of little things that I see people do that I don't agree with, and I usually find myself complaining to someone about it. It's kinda pointless really, I shouldn't care about how others who don't mean anything to me choose to live their life.

[Charles Moreland]

I see, thanks guys for letting me see this in a new way. I never really saw myself as a judgmental person, but now I see that I can be.  There are a bunch of little things that I see people do that I don't agree with, and I usually find myself complaining to someone about it. It's kinda pointless really, I shouldn't care about how others who don't mean anything to me choose to live their life.

Admitting a fault is a hard thing to do and yields my utmost respect. +1

[parkerbb2]

charles +1 good insight

[Matthew Wang]

I agree that this is a sad thing, how lazy and unhealthy a person can become, but everyone has their own reasons for doing something. I've realized and learned that everyone has their own viewpoints on something; I've learned this through Parkour. Everyone has read the stories of people who think parkour is for losers and they think Parkour sucks. At first I thought it was hard to believe that someone would say that about Parkour, I mean, you become a freaking ninja once you get "good"! But of course, the people who disagree think parkour is just plain stupid.

This made me stop and look at how I view some things: I find watching golf, soccer, and baseball pretty boring. Others who have had the sports grow onto them and are interested in them would call me a hater like some of us call those "parkour haters". They find watching those sports interesting and fun.

When a traceur watches PK/FR videos, we see all the fine techniques, discipline, and skill of the traceur in that video, while others see someone running around doing either cool things, or stupid things.

So i've learned that we need to see everything from a two-sided view. I always think about how I think of something and then how someone else would see the same thing.

Now I don't judge thinks so quickly, and if I do, I go back and see it from different directions and ideas.

So those people on the Segways may have been doing it for different reasons than you believe. But maybe not. Just stop and think before you come to a final decision, you may, and most likely will be wrong on your first judgement.

[Zachary Cohn]

Weighing in from a more unique point of view of someone who has ridden a segway...

They're also just so damn fun.

[BandGeek]

It takes alot to admit fault bruh, good job.


But I understand what you are feeling. I know that our society has become lazy, not to say those people are but to look at the world as a whole, you can really see the laziness, it's extremely evident.

[Chris [.5gibbon] Stevenson!]

hey at least they aren't watching tv or eating at sonic    they are absorbing some good old vitamin D! although they could do that while walking too...

[Christian Greene]

I think it'd be interesting to see what humanity might be like if every last person were challenged and succeeded and did everything in their power to be tip top shape physically and mentally (very Sparta-esque). But we've evolved from that very puritanical mentality towards society and frankly, who are you to tell someone how to live their life?

Dude i totally agree with you. I thin about that sometimes, when I question the actions of people and why some people do the [sometimes DUMB] things they do haha. or just totally disagree with it. but would we really be happy in a world with all everyone at the same level? if everyone made 'right' decisions or weren't so 'dumb'. as with everything, there has to be a balance. there is no happiness without sadness, light without dark.

[Brian Rowe]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with people exercising their freedom to pursue that which gives them happiness. This is an unalienable right that everyone is entitled to, including you, who simply decides to spend free time differently. Their being on Segways, and their wearing helmets does not affect you in any direct way. So learn to leave it.

I'm all for the live and let live attitude, but laziness irks me like nothing else. I knew an obese man a few years back through my workplace who rode around in a scooter and had handicapped license plates. He had no job, lived in government-assisted housing, and received benefits from the state. What tragedy put him that position? Absolutely nothing but his own laziness. He got lazy, fat, more lazy, even fatter, so on and so forth until he had immobilized himself. The guy thought it was funny and bragged about his lifestyle. That's what my taxes are paying for?

A sickening amount of people strive for the apathetic glamour of shopping, working, and entertaining themselves from the same six, square feet of the couch. What gets me is that that attitude then gets transferred to their kids. Mom and Dad don't work, so why should I? I have Facebook and Madden 09, so why bother going out with friends? Pills fix everything, so why eat right? Did you know that some schools don't do fitness tests anymore? They don't want the kids to feel bad about themselves. Well they should, because people like me, who actually give a crap about something, have to pick up the slack at work, at school, picking up trash that landed a foot from the bin, or shoveling someone else's sidewalk so that my elderly neighbor doesn't slip. Somehow, I'm the weird one in the end for actually putting forth an effort.

As for the Segways in particular, I've been down to Chicago and seen the Segway tours. They look like fun, but it's a limited experience. On the other hand, there is a woman in my neighborhood who gets on her Segway the moment she leaves the house, which is usually to go two blocks to Walgreens, inside of which she continues through the aisles on her Segway. In my book, that counts as humanity in a sad state of affairs.

but would we really be happy in a world with all everyone at the same level? if everyone made 'right' decisions or weren't so 'dumb'. as with everything, there has to be a balance. there is no happiness without sadness, light without dark.

Not at the exact same level, but perhaps a little more comparable. Then I would be much happier. Do you know how frustrating it is to spend a few hours everyday at work fixing the mistakes of coworkers, and knowing full well that the mistakes were made because they don't care and expect that someone else will fix them?

[Alex L.]

Charles I agree with you to an extent.Except, without people being judgmental the world certainly wouldn't go 'round, and also there is nothing wrong with people exercising their freedom to pursue that which gives them happiness, but once people start breaking the law because it makes them happy then we get problems. Just because someone does something that they are happy doing doesn't always mean it's right.

[Charles Moreland]

I knew an obese man a few years back through my workplace who rode around in a scooter and had handicapped license plates. He had no job, lived in government-assisted housing, and received benefits from the state. What tragedy put him that position?

The tragedy is in part his own and in part the current welfare state. We have a system in which certain exploitations allow this kind of lifestyle to exist. However, this example does not belong here and I will explain later.

Except, without people being judgmental the world certainly wouldn't go 'round

What experience do you have to make this claim? Racism is judgmental. Did racism make the world go round? No. In fact, most of the wars of our past can be traced back to racist and elitist mindsets. This made the world go 'round? I think you need to consider exactly what you just said.

I also mentioned nothing about lawbreaking. Assuming I believe in such a thing is ridiculous.



Back to Rowe quick, laziness irks me too. Laziness, egoism, and arrogance make up my list of pet peeves. The point I'm trying to make is that people are so much more than outward appearances and very rarely can you define a person based on one short occurrence, nor can you accurately portray an entire population based on generalizations of a few. While I'm severely turned off by arrogance, one act from a stranger I've never met doesn't cause me to suddenly make judgments about the kind of life this guy leads.

The example you used has no place in this argument because your assessment of this man is not based on these types of judgments. You knew this man to a certain extent and knew his lifestyle, his personality, and his beliefs.

Would this post have been made if the "segway family" looked outstandingly healthy on the exterior? Does this change a person? "Oh, they're healthy and they're just having some fun." Versus a fat person who is automatically tagged as lazy. You know nothing about this person, their ideals, their daily activities, nor do you know their past or where they've been.

My grandfather doesn't ride a Segway, but is definitely outwardly obese. Does this make him some obese and lazy asshole? If you knew what kind of shit happened to him in Korea, you'd pity him and wonder why he still believes in God. It's not his fault his activity level is non-existent, yet on the outside, you would never know he was an injured war vet.

Then you need come to the understanding the proper diet choices are extremely hard for the average american to make. Companies spend billions of dollars in advertisements to influence societies buying habits. "Part of a balanced breakfast," is added to almost every breakfast cereal commercial; especially the ones that are 80% sugar. Jesus dude there are commercials on TV that try to back up the "natural" claims of HFCS. Most people who already have jobs and a family aren't able to research the validity of these claims. Does our knowledge make us somehow better than the ignorant?

I agree, perhaps humanity is in a sad state right now. And while there's alot our there I cherish, there's also much to despise. But if you and OP believe so passionately that they are wrong, then do something about it. Don't waste that passion here. It does nothing but monger up feelings of elitism and arrogance here in these forums, where no one but those who already think the same way will see. Put it to good use. Talk with authority figures in your community, talk to those directly who you see, chat with them and offer to help them see as you do.

Abusing knowledge against the ignorant makes you part of a greater evil and makes you no better of a person than you believe they are. Help them. Who knows? They might be eager to learn. Every person you help to understand creates an explosion of knowledge. They learn themselves and when the times comes they will probably end up informing a friend who then learns and informs others and on and on.

Our assumptions and judgments are the biggest barrier that stops this chain of knowledge from existing. It will also make you feel better about yourself. You will no longer be just a practitioner to this lifestyle, you'll become a teacher which helps you learn even more and understand better, but also gives you a feeling of accomplishment. You helped someone else experience the same happiness you feel.

Don't waste these feelings in an internet forum of people who already understand why they are probably not maximizing happiness out of their lives. Don't deny those who need it the most the opportunity to finally understand.

[Ryan Thill]

I can't quite understand how a person could be going fast enough on a Segway to absolutely require a helmet, but it's better safe than sorry, right?

Sorry, I didn't have time to read the rest of the posts in the topic, but I thought I'd post these to respond.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvWUWtA5jIA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkY2Qa_FchE

 

[Alex L.]

What experience do you have to make this claim? Racism is judgmental. Did racism make the world go round? No. In fact, most of the wars of our past can be traced back to racist and elitist mindsets. This made the world go 'round? I think you need to consider exactly what you just said.

I also mentioned nothing about lawbreaking. Assuming I believe in such a thing is ridiculous.

I also said nothing about war .

Except in you're statement saying that most wars of our past can be traced back to racist and elitist mindsets is wrong. Most of the wars in our past, present, and future is caused by religion, the only war that I can recall that is kinda linked to racism is the Civil War. 

Also, you did say that there is nothing wrong with people exercising their freedom to pursue which gives them happiness, and there are people out there that do exercise their freedom by breaking the law in which satisfies them.

For you're request for reasoning on my judgment claim: A teacher finds his student doing something wrong. Does he... A) Follow Morland's idea, not judge him, and let him go on with his life. or.... B) Judge him on what he is doing and fix this problem. Everyone judges something or someone everyday. Whether it's to change something or someone for the better or to just judge said person because they aren't like them. You can't run from judgment.

[tombb]

The problem is not about "judging", as in being able to make decisions and evaluate situations and actions objectively. That's fine

The problem is in making quick, incorrect and biased or irrational judgments. That's what racism and other various gross generalizations or irrational behaviors are about. Specifically they are bad because they are both negative and incorrect.
Usually these are generated by a narrow self-centered view of the world, which tends to cause a negative emotional response to anything different (culture, clothing, skin tone, life or career choices etc).

I think everybody should be able to agree with this, and realize that there is really no disagreement. People who are bringing up examples "for" being judgmental (like emptyapollo) are giving examples where the evaluation is correct and pretty obvious, and therefore agreeable (dishonesty is bad for society, lazyness causes people to be less productive, etc).
Similarly you can say people with freckles and red hair can get sunburn more easily, because that's correct (even though it's not necessarily a positive observation). But you couldn't say that people with red hair are lazy, because that's not true. I imagine both Charles and Emptyapollo would agree with all this.

The problem with the OP statements was that it was not a true objective evaluation, he was making a judgment on the total value of that family based only on his dislike of motorized vehicles or his preferences, which is obviously wrong.
You can still make a judgment on the value or moral standing of a person but it better be based on their overall life, accomplishments, character, contributions to society, and not on totally unrelated observations like whether they look or act or talk differently than you.

[Kevin Davies]

I also said nothing about war .

Except in you're statement saying that most wars of our past can be traced back to racist and elitist mindsets is wrong. Most of the wars in our past, present, and future is caused by religion, the only war that I can recall that is kinda linked to racism is the Civil War. 

While there have certainly been plenty of war due to religion there have been wars for a whole lot of other reasons.  Was the Revolutionary war due to religion?  World War I? World War II? Mexican-American War?  Vietnam war? Korean War?  Apartheid in South Africa?  While this is kind of going off topic, your statement reflects the same ignorance as someone saying people who ride segways must be lazy-fattys.