Topic: 10-15 foot Drops....

[Leon Mederos]

Where the hell was I NOT moderating this thread?!?!

Stop all the bickering and fighting it gets you no where. Talking about facts that you haven't researched or experienced brings in a ton of BS.

The original author of this thread should NOT have taken the 13ft drop, even if he's ok now. Guess what?? I shouldn't have taken those 13ft drops either when I first started. I wish I had someone telling me "Stick to 3-6ft for the first year please!" because I would have had a much more solid foundation and I could have progressed so much quicker. Basically, keep telling people they shouldn't try it, especially if it's something as dangerous as a 13-15ft drop.

Somewhere on this thread I read "It's parkour, its dangerous!" - UGGGGHHHHHH parkour is NOT dangerous if you take it slow and do it properly. Everything is freaking dangerous in the world!!! I've broken my wrist from falling out of bed, I've twisted my ankle walknig down stairs, and the only damage I've ever done to myself from Parkour was a few scratches and bruises. If you're completely focused and do what you know you can, you are SAFE. Much safer then a football player, much safer then a couple of martial artists fighting, and certainly safer then driving a car. Parkour is NOT dangerous if you treat it properly.

Last but not least, this whole argument of "I might have to do it one day when I'm in trouble!!!" is completely out of whack. How about I break someone's leg so I can mend it again, just for practice in case someone breaks their leg and I'm there? Why don't I catch my house on fire, so I can learn how to properly extinguish the flames? Hah - justifying a huge drop with this excuse is pointless. If the situation arises, you'd do it whether or not you even had training. If a normal person has to jump out of a second story window or die, they're going to jump out of a window regardless of whether they've "trained" for it before or not. So when it comes to your training, please respect your body and don't do anything wreckless, even for the sake of "testing it out"!!

You'll thank me in 10 years when you're friend who did all the 10ft drops is seeing a rehabilitation doctor for his knee pains and you're still training daily 




and next time I see bickering, look forward to a not-so-nice PM from a pissed of leon (with laser eye beams, durrr) 

edit: Quick re-read.
Tai: I know you're trying to help by asking if he was landing on grass/concrete/whatever but like I stated earlier it doesn't matter. When he gets to the point that he IS taking higher drops, he will know himself the big difference between grass, concrete and other materials.
Chris: Name calling is inappropriate if directed at someone as fiercely as you did to Tai. You could have at least put up funny picture or something and discussed your point in why you think what Tai said wasn't a good idea.... DONT BE A PEN-FIFTEEN, PUNK    ... 

[Alex L.]

Somewhere on this thread I read "It's parkour, its dangerous!" - UGGGGHHHHHH parkour is NOT dangerous if you take it slow and do it properly. Everything is freaking dangerous in the world!!! I've broken my wrist from falling out of bed, I've twisted my ankle walknig down stairs, and the only damage I've ever done to myself from Parkour was a few scratches and bruises. If you're completely focused and do what you know you can, you are SAFE. Much safer then a football player, much safer then a couple of martial artists fighting, and certainly safer then driving a car. Parkour is NOT dangerous if you treat it properly.

Lol you're right everything can be dangerous. I like almost dislocated my finger playing my guitar.

[Tai]

Sorry. and i didn't mean parkour was dangerous but that the risk of serious injury is much higher than most sports. More or less that screwing up in parkour can be much worse than screwing up in something like say sparring. but i still feel like an idiot for the whole thing.

[Holland Wilson]

Done properly, I'd say it's equal or even less to physical sports in injury potential. Granted, it'll always be more dangerous than curling, but in parkour, you have only yourself to account for. If you know that you can't make a jump without getting injured, you can usually avoid it. On the other hand, pretty much every team sport has other people on the field that can't be accounted for so easily.

[Tai]

valid. i mean severity. like i get hurt more often in Tae kwan Do then i d parkour, but everytime i have gotten hurt doing parkour ( which is 2 times now ) it has been very bad. Both incidents left me limping for a couple of weeks, in 10 plus years of tae kwan do i have only been hurt that bad about 3 times. So in my experience when things go bad they go really bad. Both of my injuries have lead me to adopt new rules and principles for my use of parkour. So they were learning experiences that feel i had to have, just wish that they hadn't hurt so much.

[Andy Animus Tran]

valid. i mean severity. like i get hurt more often in Tae kwan Do then i d parkour, but everytime i have gotten hurt doing parkour ( which is 2 times now ) it has been very bad. Both incidents left me limping for a couple of weeks, in 10 plus years of tae kwan do i have only been hurt that bad about 3 times. So in my experience when things go bad they go really bad. Both of my injuries have lead me to adopt new rules and principles for my use of parkour. So they were learning experiences that feel i had to have, just wish that they hadn't hurt so much.

Strange..  In my past three years, I've never gotten more than a gentle scrape in parkour training.  Whereas I developed tendonitis in my elbow from wrestling.

The potential for injury is greater in Parkour assuming there is no regimented training program, strict concentration on safety, or slow slooooow progression.  But proper training and awareness create a MUCH lower potential for injury... whereas proper training in other sports, such as gymnastics, competitive martial arts, wrestling, competitive "game" sports, etc. result in a much MUCH higher incidence rate of injury..

I'd say the only thing safer than proper Parkour training is proper rock climbing.  Other than overuse injuries, I've never heard of a climbing injury when someone was training properly and wasn't doing stupid shit.

[Tai]

I'd say the only thing safer than proper Parkour training is proper rock climbing.  Other than overuse injuries, I've never heard of a climbing injury when someone was training properly and wasn't doing stupid shit.
[/quote]

I don't know about that but the fact remains that a little water or debris and a simple move can become very dangerous. Also when you do make a mistake in parkour, and you will make mistakes, you body is flying though the air at an incredible speed, whether you can regain control and land or not is up to your physical ability. personal i landed on my face and neck plenty of times learning to monkey and eventually kong. If you are saying that you have never fallen during you training then i really really want to know how you are training. i do agree that as you get more into parkour you chance of injury decreases which is almost the opposite of most physical activities. i just think that getting kicked in the face while sparring would be less damaging than landing on my shoulder cause i clipped my toes of a Kong.

[Andy Animus Tran]

That has to do with bodily awareness, something that grows as you progressively train.  Eventually, you can catch yourself and prevent injury no matter what you're doing or how bad your mistake was, just because your body instinctively knows "how to fall."

Martial arts and rock climbing, plus being a clumsy klutz, taught me how to fall before I ever started training.  I've never fallen on my face.. or.. anywhere, really.  A "bad" fall for me, even in the beginning, was when I just landed in quad.

The reason I don't like to teach techniques until later on anymore is that in the beginning, a person should be conditioning and just moving naturally so to develop the neurological pathways that helps to facilitate bodily awareness.  Once that is developed, learning the techniques comes MUCH faster and the ability to fix your mistakes mid-air is also much better.

[ChuckC]

i've been doing parkour now serious for about 5 months.... off and on for the past year..

From what I've heard... thats like... nothing. Like the blink of an eye. I mean, hell, I've been doing it "on and off" for about three years and I haven't learned ANYTHING. Train, train for years before you do this. One bad fall could ruin your entire life.

[Leon Mederos]

Tai how long have you been practicing?

I dont understand your "severity" issue here. I think what you mean to say is that someone completely untrained and unaware of anything, tries to imitate someone doing parkour and they have a greater chance of risk than some other sports. If that's your point, I have to disagree again - take Tae kwon Do for example. If I were completely untrained and I tried to spar someone, I might accidentally break the guy's neck by kicking him in the head with too much power because I don't have the control - I also have a much greater chance of letting adrenaline and hate taking control because I am not disciplined, therefore causing even greater harm to both of us.

If you practice parkour regularly and properly, you can avoid nearly ALL risks. Even potential danger from that spec of dirt, water, or damaged structures. I've slipped, I've grabbed loose things, and I've fallen many times. But because I was 100% focused and I had good body control I avoided all serious injuries and escaped with minor bruises/cuts.

I also don't understand what you mean by "you WILL make mistakes" in parkour. You WILL make mistakes in every little thing you do in life, that doesn't mean those mistakes will do anything harmful.  If you landed on your neck and face many times while learning to monkey and kong, then you were simply learning them using a dangerous technique. I'm sure there could've been plenty of ways you could have learned it without putting yourself at risk like that!!

Please don't take any of this the wrong way, I'm not saying you're "bad" or your different, I'm just saying that if you approach it the right way (usually with guidance from someone who's practiced for awhile) then parkour could be ranked as one of the safest and most natural things you can do!! If you have any questions, especially about training techs and such, pleeeaassseee PM me and I'll help you out  

and for reference, I've been doing PK for about 5 years now, constantly, almost everyday. And I STILL consider myself very new and in need of much learning. There are people (Yamakasi, Belle, Foucan, etc.) who have trained for 20+ years!! So honestly, put your training time in perspective with THEM when you're comparing whether you've grasped the basics or not haha

[Tai]

I have been practicing for 2-3 years now and never really had anyone to teach me so maybe that is why i fell so much doing the Kong. I think that this may all just boil down to experience.

As for the comment about untrained Tae Kwan Do, you don't know what you are talking about, if someone can kick me at head level with enough force to hurt me then they have been training for a long time, and if they can make contact with me
even longer. It is the job of the higher belts to train and show the lower belts about control and part of that is being able not to get hit. Granted if 2 kids started sparring without training they might hurt each other, but you said the same thing about Pakour.

 As for Parkour and what i am talking about is severity, I personally always have and will train outside, this means most of what i train on is contreet and metal. When i fall i fall onto contreet and metal, If someone has not fallen doing parkour then i am impressed. I would rather encounter the force that i encounter while falling if it was directed at me in an attack.

I also would like to say that its not always about how well or safe you train, you can always make a mistake and fall. I am simply saying that falling whilst doing parkour, for me at least, means falling onto metal or contreet, (or when i was getting started wood chips and grass). And these things hurt a lot more than mats and pads.

Also about the comment of "improperly learning" being my problem, yes that might be part of it, but no matter what you say the monkey and the Kong always has the inherent risk of clipping your toes and rotating over your center of gravity and going head first down the other side. If  i am wrong on this please let me know, but it is some thing i have been aware of since i nearly put a shrub through my collar bone.

Maybe i have been moving a little to fast in my training and yes i have taken risks simply because i am young and agile, but i feel that i still train solid "parkour" and i spend most of my time drilling thief vaults, QM, vertical wall runs, pop ups and rolling. I also supplement my training with running, biking, martial arts and muscle training. I also stretch, a lot. If there is anything anyone thinks that i should be working on please let me know and i would be more than happy to try it out.

what i really want to point out is that doing Parkour might not mean that you get hurt more than other activities, ( i think it is less often), or that you get hurt worse, simply that the worst case scenario in Parkour is much closer to the surface, that is that you are more aware of just how wrong things can go. I am pretty sure we are all agreeing about the same stuff so i hope that this puts my view into better perspective.

[Andy Animus Tran]

It does, though honestly... I have seen MANY more people get more severely injured landing on a gym floor or on grass than on concrete.  Part of that has to do with control.

To do "real" Parkour, you need to spend 90% of your time conditioning.  Parkour is a training methodology, not a set of urban tricks and techniques.

[Leon Mederos]

OK I'll let you win, even though I sort of know what I'm talking about. It's all opinion anyway without any concrete facts  (pun intended lawlz.)

[Tai]

I am not trying to win or lose i am trying to create a better understanding of what ever this means. I am sorry if you feel that i was trying to "win", no aggressive behavior was intended.

[Shane Warren]

OK think of this for a second
think of how many peoples last words before they died were "Hey guys watch this!"

[Pierce Mullis]

 On the contrary Shane, many of the first words of the greatest inventions were, "Hey guys, watch this!"

 Honestly, we all here argue over what is true parkour, as seen above it is apperently 90% conditioning and 10% actual training which appears to be way off of what I do but we all forget that this is infact this fellows choice. Parkour, atleast to me, differs from person to person because of the lack of it being a competition - Generally speaking it has no real rules; unlike say, skateboarding in which a kickflip must be done in a certain way in a competative environment and if Matt (Or anybody who is not willing to listen the first time.) feels that it is part of his own philosphy of parkour to jump off a 15 foot building and possibly almost injure himself, that is, again, his choice.

 This topic should have died long ago as you are getting nowhere preaching to anybody otherwise when they are this sure of themselves.

[Ben Stampahar]

I wish I had seen stuff similar to this 3 years ago when I started(I was only 10).  I would do 10-13 foot drops frequently(compared to what I do now) onto mulch at a playground.  I regret it now.  Frequently I have knee and ankle pain that can probably be blamed on taking those drops.  My new conditioning is helping me recover strength in my joints but now at 3 years of parkour I only do 10ft drops about 3 times a year.  And even then I usually have ankle supports or knee supports on either then or for the rest of the day.

Listen to people when they say not to do drops.  It is not good when you have to worry about your joints when your 13.  Although if I had worried about my joints when I started I wouldn't have to worry about them now.

[danhezee]

I wish I had seen stuff similar to this 3 years ago when I started(I was only 10).  I would do 10-13 foot drops frequently(compared to what I do now) onto mulch at a playground.  I regret it now.  Frequently I have knee and ankle pain that can probably be blamed on taking those drops.  My new conditioning is helping me recover strength in my joints but now at 3 years of parkour I only do 10ft drops about 3 times a year.  And even then I usually have ankle supports or knee supports on either then or for the rest of the day.

Listen to people when they say not to do drops.  It is not good when you have to worry about your joints when your 13.  Although if I had worried about my joints when I started I wouldn't have to worry about them now.

APK needs an article on the main site with testimonies like Ben's.  Drops are too dangerous not to have an article highlighting the risks and the outcomes of rushing into them.

[Chris Salvato]

I wish I had seen stuff similar to this 3 years ago when I started(I was only 10).  I would do 10-13 foot drops frequently(compared to what I do now) onto mulch at a playground.  I regret it now.  Frequently I have knee and ankle pain that can probably be blamed on taking those drops.  My new conditioning is helping me recover strength in my joints but now at 3 years of parkour I only do 10ft drops about 3 times a year.  And even then I usually have ankle supports or knee supports on either then or for the rest of the day.

Listen to people when they say not to do drops.  It is not good when you have to worry about your joints when your 13.  Although if I had worried about my joints when I started I wouldn't have to worry about them now.

APK needs an article on the main site with testimonies like Ben's.  Drops are too dangerous not to have an article highlighting the risks and the outcomes of rushing into them.

Awesome Idea...put it right on the main page.  We see this kind of post ALL the time and all we do is repeat the same badgering of the OP and then it is followed by a bitter argument.

[Rockwell]

I wish I had seen stuff similar to this 3 years ago when I started(I was only 10).  I would do 10-13 foot drops frequently(compared to what I do now) onto mulch at a playground.  I regret it now.  Frequently I have knee and ankle pain that can probably be blamed on taking those drops.  My new conditioning is helping me recover strength in my joints but now at 3 years of parkour I only do 10ft drops about 3 times a year.  And even then I usually have ankle supports or knee supports on either then or for the rest of the day.

Listen to people when they say not to do drops.  It is not good when you have to worry about your joints when your 13.  Although if I had worried about my joints when I started I wouldn't have to worry about them now.

APK needs an article on the main site with testimonies like Ben's.  Drops are too dangerous not to have an article highlighting the risks and the outcomes of rushing into them.

Awesome Idea...put it right on the main page.  We see this kind of post ALL the time and all we do is repeat the same badgering of the OP and then it is followed by a bitter argument.

Um best idea ever?
example:
"Hey guys, well I have been parkouring for about 3 weeks now n all of duh sudden my knees are hurtin me from only like 15foot drops and I knows it can't be mi legs cause I has been training them for a while and they are REALLY strong PLUS my rolls are like perfect. SO I just want to know why mi knees hurt so bad when I walk up stairs.."
Then we kindly refer them to the article!
I luvs it