Author Topic: Build our own Playground *Important*  (Read 7313 times)

Offline Ryan Ford

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Re: Lady of the Lake *Important*
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2008, 10:04:59 PM »
I may be wrong, but the impressions I got from the Generations community in London were that the cities of Lisses and Evry are starting to embrace parkour a bit. I also got the impression that many think the Dame may re-open soon.

Evry is totally embracing parkour. The city sponsored the big Yamakasi event, put a bunch of us up in a hotel, allowed city hall to be used as the center of operations, and the mayor even signed the papers of intent to open the parkour academy in the city within the next 2 years.

Lisses on the other hand has closed down the Dame du Lac. You are likely to have trouble with the police if you go there, especially if it isnt Sunday. According to the local Evry traceurs I trained with, parkour has recently been banned in all of Lisses. Of course this is probably not enforced that much, but I guess the residents and city council have grown tired of the nuisance of people from all over the world training there all the time.

Offline Nick Kelly

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Re: Lady of the Lake *Important*
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2008, 11:25:22 PM »
Lisses on the other hand has closed down the Dame du Lac. You are likely to have trouble with the police if you go there, especially if it isnt Sunday. According to the local Evry traceurs I trained with, parkour has recently been banned in all of Lisses. Of course this is probably not enforced that much, but I guess the residents and city council have grown tired of the nuisance of people from all over the world training there all the time.

That just seems weird to me. The course of action that Evry is taking seems much more forward thinking. It seems like if Lisses really wanted to, they could make a decent amount of money (decent is all relative, Lisses isnt a giant city) from parkour tourism, or at least use the exposure as a positive trait to advertise for the city.

...but back to the proposed Dame du Lac idea. Let's pretend we have everything straightened out, people are fine with one community being able to hold this thing, and all the money is collected. I think that the money raised would be MUCH better used to create parkour community outreach programs. With that sizeable sum of money you could help a lot of kids by introducing them to parkour, and with such a large sum of money you could really run a fairly large program. Here in Columbus, we have virtually no money to put into our parkour volunteer work, but we are able to still introduce parkour to "at risk" kids throughout the city. With a real budget, you could do some very cool things (parkour endowment anyone?  :P).
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 11:26:56 PM by Nick Kelly »

Offline Ozzi

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Re: Lady of the Lake *Important*
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2008, 12:57:38 AM »
Everyone has very good points here, but there is a common denominator in the discussion.

1- Negativity. Nothing comes easy, specially when you want something really bad.

2- Adam change the tittle to American Meca of Parkour Concept or something. La Dame Du Lac will never be substituted, period. But we can do something similar or even better.

3- Nick, although it is a very noble idea, how many people do you think would be willing to put money down for something that will not benefit their state or themselves. Not saying that no one would, we have great people within the community. But if I get your idea right, it would be the same we are talking about here. We dont necessarily mean to create a big structure or park where people can go crazy climbing all over. But maybe a place where people can go an gather together, train, learn, share. This place off course would be parkour inspired. With all the tool we need to train safety and be challenge as well. So, again, if that is what you are referring to, then we are all in the same page.

 So again, let recap.

 Dame Du Lac structure is out of question.

 I like the warehouse idea. It is something that Adam and I have discussed already to have happening here (with a car inside, benches, mats, rails, build in walls etc). Maybe on a national level this can be done even bigger than him and I have ever had in mind. A place where people all around the country can go and train with those who we only know in the forum or from articles and what not. Maybe this place has an extra big room with bunker beds for hosting visitors from other cities who cant afford a hotel. A place big enough to have all we need, urban inspired as well as gym like places, where we WONT EVER GET KICKED OUT FROM. Creating the "perfect" spots under one roof. National jams, classes, everything can happen there.

Annual fees, maybe for locals. Visitors from inner states, hmmm? Maybe a lower annual membership, like very very low, since some may go like one or twice a year, but that way the place has a source of money to be kept up and running. Something could be arrange but charging to use the place would not be fair as it would also not be fair for the person in charge of it to have all the work on his/her shoulders. Visitors can help by putting work, cleaning, painting if needed. Anything, donations are accepted.

 Yes, there would have to be a "staff" someone with a key and ownership, there are bills to pay. Maybe this could be a place supported by all the american community, donations and what not. Plus is the place is teaching classes that would e a source of income right there.

It is something to think through, but we have thousands of brains here, I am sure we can come out with something.
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Offline Milquetoast

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2008, 04:00:36 AM »
While I do believe there will be many legal hurdles to overcome (especially since we're in the lawsuit-happy US of A), from the discussions so far, I believe this is the type of organization:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501%28c%29#501.28c.29.283.29

... that needs to be formed in order to follow through with this plan.  Where to put the "Parkour Park" will also be an important consideration, since apparently not all state and localities offer property tax exemptions to non-profit organizations (and you would NOT want a good chunk of your donations to go to property taxes).

Offline misstanyamae

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Re: Lady of the Lake *Important*
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2008, 07:34:02 AM »
I may be wrong, but the impressions I got from the Generations community in London were that the cities of Lisses and Evry are starting to embrace parkour a bit. I also got the impression that many think the Dame may re-open soon.

Evry is totally embracing parkour. The city sponsored the big Yamakasi event, put a bunch of us up in a hotel, allowed city hall to be used as the center of operations, and the mayor even signed the papers of intent to open the parkour academy in the city within the next 2 years.

Lisses on the other hand has closed down the Dame du Lac. You are likely to have trouble with the police if you go there, especially if it isnt Sunday. According to the local Evry traceurs I trained with, parkour has recently been banned in all of Lisses. Of course this is probably not enforced that much, but I guess the residents and city council have grown tired of the nuisance of people from all over the world training there all the time.
Thanks for clearing that up. I just heard lots of talk and didn't really get the whole story.
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Offline Jordan "Sirlig" Nelson

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2008, 07:46:19 AM »
Sounds good.....but look at the reasons the Dame du Lac is closed.  People have died, I'm assuming others have been injured, etc etc.  Others have said it already: there's a lot of liability.  I think if we ever tried to build it, as soon as we mentioned the fact that it is a replica of a closed-off existant model that is restricted due to liability, our chances of having our own will disappear.

Not to mention there is something to be said for uniqueness.  You wouldn't build a second stonehenge or Eiffel tower or something that doesn't have a fence or barrier just so you can go right up to it or climb to the top on your own, would you?  It's a little ridiculous to build one just so you can have it all your own.

Sure, it's still illegal to climb the Dame du Lac, and I don't have personal experience to say for sure, but out of all the videos I've seen, it is done so much and there doesn't seem to be any more security around it each time, so I'm guessing the local government knows and is, if not okay with it, at least they are tolerating it.  After all, if anyone gets hurt now, they don't have to worry about the liability of it, since it was off-limits to them in the first place.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 07:48:41 AM by Jordan "okctraceur" Nelson »
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Offline Nick Kelly

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Re: Lady of the Lake *Important*
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2008, 07:49:41 AM »
3- Nick, although it is a very noble idea, how many people do you think would be willing to put money down for something that will not benefit their state or themselves. Not saying that no one would, we have great people within the community. But if I get your idea right, it would be the same we are talking about here. We dont necessarily mean to create a big structure or park where people can go crazy climbing all over. But maybe a place where people can go an gather together, train, learn, share. This place off course would be parkour inspired. With all the tool we need to train safety and be challenge as well. So, again, if that is what you are referring to, then we are all in the same page.

I'm not really saying the national parkour community should band together to raise tons of money for a big community outreach program (although that would be cool of course). I'm just saying that I think that if the money could be collected for an American Dame du Lac, it could be spent in more productive ways.

Offline Tyler Morita

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2008, 08:20:52 AM »
And I think using that large amount of money specifically for a large singular (or central) parkour mecca would accomplish the goal of many community outreach programs, probably causing many new programs to start around the country, with all the publicity this thing would get..

Even if there ARE more productive ways to spend the money, we'll never get a parkour mecca if we don't spend the money on it...why buy a Farrari when you could spend $500 on a moped and put the rest to "better uses"?

Offline Nick Kelly

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2008, 08:25:09 AM »
Even if there ARE more productive ways to spend the money, we'll never get a parkour mecca if we don't spend the money on it...why buy a Farrari when you could spend $500 on a moped and put the rest to "better uses"?

Maybe that's why I don't plan on ever buying a Farrari.  :P

...and I don't mean to sound negative or something. I appreciate the enthusiasm. I just don't agree with the idea.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 08:27:15 AM by Nick Kelly »

Offline Rob Wolcheski

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2008, 10:02:02 AM »
I'm thoroughly enjoying this dialogue and think this is a great conversation for the community to further explore.  My 2cents on this topic...

Much of what is being discussed (e.g., organized training sessions, pk gathering spots/destinations, youth outreach) is already happening in communities across the country.  Primal Fitness has definitely served in this capacity in the DC community.  I, for one, probably would not have discovered my passion for parkour had it not been for M2, gear, and the rest of the gang.  To some extent I agree with Nick in that we should focus local resources on encouraging grassroots efforts like those happening in places like DC, Columbus, Colorado, etc.

I'm also intrigued by the idea of parkour-themed parks.  A logical first step would be to identify potential partners (existing non-profits or supportive public agencies) that already have the technical and administrative infrastructure in place to help refine such a concept.  There's a great non-profit in Washington, DC that organizes and leads community playground building initiatives across the country.  Check them out, it might be a good start... www.kaboom.org
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Offline GANinja443556

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2008, 09:07:36 PM »
I personally think it would be cooler to build one giant Mecca Parkour park in a centralized location and to maybe sponsor smaller community parks all over the country. It would certainly help me from getting in trouble for trespassing--even though I didn't conventionally get on the property and had no idea there was a no trespassing sign posted--not to mention I wouldn't get yelled at for doing PK throughout my town despite the fact that I'm still a beginner and am not really doing anything dangerous at all. I can't really help with the laws--I'm personally a Musician, not a Lawyer, but there would be a necessity for at least waivers, some guidelines, and probably zoning issues.
This is the most appealing idea that I've heard thus far:

Dame Du Lac structure is out of question.

 I like the warehouse idea. It is something that Adam and I have discussed already to have happening here (with a car inside, benches, mats, rails, build in walls etc). Maybe on a national level this can be done even bigger than him and I have ever had in mind. A place where people all around the country can go and train with those who we only know in the forum or from articles and what not. Maybe this place has an extra big room with bunker beds for hosting visitors from other cities who cant afford a hotel. A place big enough to have all we need, urban inspired as well as gym like places, where we WONT EVER GET KICKED OUT FROM. Creating the "perfect" spots under one roof. National jams, classes, everything can happen there.

Annual fees, maybe for locals. Visitors from inner states, hmmm? Maybe a lower annual membership, like very very low, since some may go like one or twice a year, but that way the place has a source of money to be kept up and running. Something could be arrange but charging to use the place would not be fair as it would also not be fair for the person in charge of it to have all the work on his/her shoulders. Visitors can help by putting work, cleaning, painting if needed. Anything, donations are accepted.

 Yes, there would have to be a "staff" someone with a key and ownership, there are bills to pay. Maybe this could be a place supported by all the american community, donations and what not. Plus is the place is teaching classes that would e a source of income right there.

Offline Andrew Robillard

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2008, 09:33:33 PM »
Sounds good.....but look at the reasons the Dame du Lac is closed.  People have died, I'm assuming others have been injured, etc etc. 

umm actually last i heard, no one has been seriously injured training parkour at the dame du lac.
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Offline Ozzi

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2008, 10:23:33 PM »
Sounds good.....but look at the reasons the Dame du Lac is closed.  People have died, I'm assuming others have been injured, etc etc. 

umm actually last i heard, no one has been seriously injured training parkour at the dame du lac.

It was closed after two rock climbers (no traceurs) died.
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Offline Adam McC

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2008, 12:48:11 AM »
Sounds good.....but look at the reasons the Dame du Lac is closed.  People have died, I'm assuming others have been injured, etc etc. 

umm actually last i heard, no one has been seriously injured training parkour at the dame du lac.

It was closed after two rock climbers (no traceurs) died.

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Offline JumpOff

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2008, 06:20:40 AM »
yeah, forget dam du lac.

what we need is a park like this parkour one they built in denmark


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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pWMjeWRU1eg
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Offline crazy.beaver

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2008, 06:42:53 AM »
this is an amazing idea, and I'm all in  :D

Offline Ozzi

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2008, 02:38:49 PM »
JumpOff, that is a great video.

Also, I think we already determined the dam du lac copy was out of question.

We are talking about a place like on that vid. A structure like place with gym access for classes and other sessions.
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Offline Jordan "Sirlig" Nelson

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2008, 08:23:27 PM »
Sounds good.....but look at the reasons the Dame du Lac is closed.  People have died, I'm assuming others have been injured, etc etc. 

umm actually last i heard, no one has been seriously injured training parkour at the dame du lac.

I was referring to the climbers that had been killed.  I heard there were 2, but I'm not 100% on that.  As far as injuries, I was only assuming that if people had been killed, there were perhaps people (traceurs or not) that had received some bumps, bruises, or maybe broken bones, but I don't know.

Edit* :  Looks like that's already cleared up.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 08:25:49 PM by Jordan "okctraceur" Nelson »
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Offline Ness Smith-Savedoff

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2008, 09:31:05 AM »
How about:
A non-profit organization with board members that owns a warehouse (dream big, a campus) of parkour meca...  Enough money is made through classes, tshirts, member fees, etc... to give teachers and small staff room and board. 
That way an individual wont get sued (if someone does sue) the whole nonprofit would be sued with a larger community to fight back.  (respectfully of course)

potential location: Detroit, MI  (empty warehouse, good transportation, relatively central)

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Offline Ozzi

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Re: Build our own Playground *Important*
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2008, 01:04:12 PM »
That a part of what we are planning, good idea.

Keep the ideas coming guys, Ill recap what we have discussed as we keep on coming with ideas.
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