Topic: "church parkour" on youtube?

[Rob "Robulus" Hoover]

Apologies if this is a topic already... permission to relocate...

I saw the article on our APK frontpage about the "church parkour" video on youtube, so naturally I wanted to see it for myself... and prompty voice my disgust! However, a quick search of youtube yielded no video. My sincere hope is that the youtube moderators struck the video due to community outrage. Seriously, I'm looking for anywhere and everywhere to practice my moves and become a better traceur. I'm considering talking with local pastors to ask their permission to jump on their stairs, walls, handrails. But gravestones....? It never crossed my mind! We owe it to each other to promote respect for the environment we enjoy if we want to enjoy it for a lifetime. If you guys are training with younger, less mature aspiring traceurs, PLEASE instill in them values of respect for property and its owners. (rooftops, rain gutters, business signs, etc.) When you get confronted, PLEASE show gentleness and maturity. We need to overcome the stigma of "previous urban recreation". Together, we can make a difference and see parkour/free running develop into the exercise of choice for a generation!

Rob

[Josh Schmidt]

  here's the link to the article and video -  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2079539/Gravestone-vaulting-teenagers-condemned-over-YouTube-stunt.html

VERY DISRESPECTFUL! These kids just ruined parkour for thier community. it's sad

[Patrick Holten (Denver Family) Flux Freerunning]

What f-tards man, do they not know there are people at rest in those tombs!!?? Just because it's concrete doesn't mean its fair territory for Parkour!!! Give pk a bad name assholes.

[Ozzi]

I wanna give my opinion on this disregarding PK but tombstones in general, and I will hoping I wont get hated for this.

Not to long ago I told my wife -when I die, I want to be cremated and thrown in the ocean or from the top of a mountain-. -Why?- she asked out of curiosity more than amazement. To which I responded -Because I dont want people to go to a stone on the ground and cry for my ass. I am not there, it is all dirt, bones and maybe a few maggots. I am having fun in another plane of this universe, be happy that I evolved to another dimension-

My point, well ok yes, we leave in a world where religions lead this world, sad but true. I give all my respects to all of you who follow a religion and it is not my intend to offend anyone, this is just me speaking my mind and respecting everyone else for their opinion. I am just in my full right to give mine without fighting anyone else's believe, I just follow the path of the Acai and you know all that.

So in my opinion this kids are just not smart enough to realize some people may get offended, they are innocent kids who aside the fact that they take drops that obviously are not ready for just wanted a place to train. Grave yards (in my opinion) are places were people store bodies, it is to my understanding that in the past people started doing that to avoid deceases, with time then they had a place to go back and morn for them if they wanted to. It is us who due to what is taught to us put this big meaning in stones on the ground were bones and dead bodies are store.

This bodies also make our history for the future generations, that I do defend, so if this kids damage this tombstones then I do think it is messed up, history is all we are and it is the one and only thing we can leave when we die.

I dont expect for anyone to agree and wont argue it as this is not something to really argue about it is just my point of view and opinion. After all we are all different and that is what makes us unique. Now I am going to light up a candle so more rain can fall in my dear acai berry seeds in south America. Love ya all.

[Rob "Robulus" Hoover]

Hey Ozzi,

I can certainly respect that point of view. I share the idea that "after death, the body is an empty shell, dispose of it as such". (Saw that on StarTrek... hurray Klingons!)

Lemme throw another log on the fire. Funerals/Memorial Services are not for the dead but for the ones left behind. I have told my wife that there will be no crying at my funeral because I am confident of my destination. I fully expect her to throw a party and if you guys want to parkour off the walls in the funeral home in honor of my relationship with you, you'll have to take that up with the property owner. However, I would ask that you not parkour over my headstone, not for my sake, but for the sake of visitors. I think this is an issue of respect for those left behind. People go to grave sites to talk to loved ones. These places are very special to those left behind. It is "sacred ground", meaning that there are just some things that you don't do, in honor of the family. Urban art/graffiti, as beautiful as some of it is, should not be left on memorials. One could argue that parkour leaves no trace, but the deeper issue here is respect for our cultural boundaries. We live in a world where urban recreation has been shunned by our culture at large. Our struggle is to overcome this stigma with maturity, the goal of which is mutual respect.

Rob

[EpicMovement]

Aside from the main topic of the kids jumping over gravestones and such...
Did anyone notice the writers bad info on the origin of parkour, and what it is.
ex. "James Bond inspired movement that derived from freerunning."

About the topic of gravestones however. I'm not a very active person in the world of what happens to you after you die, so forgive me If my opinoins come off as offensive. Isn't parkour the effciant movement throught your enviornment. If this is the kids envornment best suited for training... Well you get the point. Plus, these kids don't look very experianced (sp). They kinda have the innocence of not knowing any better.

[deadlyMETAL]

I also saw that APK article on this, and have yet to find the video....

I went looking at least for the user, who evidently is youtube.com/user/tomlb1993. I sure hope I'm right, because I sent him this message (commenting his page is giving me errors):

"Hey, are you the douchebag who put up the video(s) of Shannon, Tom, Leigh, etc. doing parkour/free-running in a graveyard? If not, my many apologies, it will not be necessary to read any further.

If you are, however, you and your friends need to grow up and learn a little more about parkour: it's not meant to be used in a disrespectful manner of ANY KIND!! You did apologize in the video for using a graveyard for your fun, but here's where your biggest fault comes in: that pathetic excuse that you guys live in the country and have nothing else to do/no where else to go defies the parkour philosophy as a whole! True traceurs persevere and seek out the best spots, relentlessly searching for somewhere they can do what they do. You guys are a bunch of poseurs, you hear me? Straight up POSEURS.

Become real traceurs. Douchebags."

I can't stand anyone who makes parkour look bad, and equate them to those who don't like it and/or believe that we shouldn't do it.

[Ozzi]

I think the insults are not necessary, it doesnt make you look any better than them.

[Adam McC]

Well when I die, and if I have a tombstone, which I won't, I'll be cremated, but if I did, I'd make a kickass tombstone, and have it say "May he who loves to vault, vault over me." I disagree with  cemeteries, they really are a big waste of ground that could be used for much better purposes, especially here on an island, in Hawaii, where real estate is extreme. All for some rotting bodies that do not even represent the person that they once were.

I'm with Ozzi that I think it's throwing a rock at the wrong bird, if you will, going to a cemetery for your loved ones. They aren't there, I promise. Their tombstone is a stone, and the words were made by some guy who makes words like that every day, and have no meaning to him. If you really want a physical representation, how about something smaller than an 8 by 4 foot square of good earth?

If I was dead there, I'd be grateful that somebody is using the damn ground for something useful.

This is of course my opinion, which is a minority of an opinion, and so these kids were not smart in doing what they did for obvious reasons, that it offends people, but I think both the people and some traceurs are coming down a bit hard on them. After all, they are just kids trying to have fun in the best way they see fit. Bad decision? Yes of course. I don't mean to defend them, I wouldn't and have not trained in a graveyard, but people walk their dogs and let their pets go pee and what not in graveyards all the time. I know, I lived by one. If a dog peeing on your Uncle is less disrespectful than some kids doing athletic training, then I've got some things to learn.

[EpicMovement]

Well when I die, and if I have a tombstone, which I won't, I'll be cremated, but if I did, I'd make a kickass tombstone, and have it say "May he who loves to vault, vault over me." I disagree with  cemeteries, they really are a big waste of ground that could be used for much better purposes, especially here on an island, in Hawaii, where real estate is extreme. All for some rotting bodies that do not even represent the person that they once were.

I'm with Ozzi that I think it's throwing a rock at the wrong bird, if you will, going to a cemetery for your loved ones. They aren't there, I promise. Their tombstone is a stone, and the words were made by some guy who makes words like that every day, and have no meaning to him. If you really want a physical representation, how about something smaller than an 8 by 4 foot square of good earth?

If I was dead there, I'd be grateful that somebody is using the damn ground for something useful.

This is of course my opinion, which is a minority of an opinion, and so these kids were not smart in doing what they did for obvious reasons, that it offends people, but I think both the people and some traceurs are coming down a bit hard on them. After all, they are just kids trying to have fun in the best way they see fit. Bad decision? Yes of course. I don't mean to defend them, I wouldn't and have not trained in a graveyard, but people walk their dogs and let their pets go pee and what not in graveyards all the time. I know, I lived by one. If a dog peeing on your Uncle is less disrespectful than some kids doing athletic training, then I've got some things to learn.

Agreed

[BearMills]

I wanna give my opinion on this disregarding PK but tombstones in general, and I will hoping I wont get hated for this.

Not to long ago I told my wife -when I die, I want to be cremated and thrown in the ocean or from the top of a mountain-. -Why?- she asked out of curiosity more than amazement. To which I responded -Because I dont want people to go to a stone on the ground and cry for my ass. I am not there, it is all dirt, bones and maybe a few maggots. I am having fun in another plane of this universe, be happy that I evolved to another dimension-

My point, well ok yes, we leave in a world where religions lead this world, sad but true. I give all my respects to all of you who follow a religion and it is not my intend to offend anyone, this is just me speaking my mind and respecting everyone else for their opinion. I am just in my full right to give mine without fighting anyone else's believe, I just follow the path of the Acai and you know all that.

So in my opinion this kids are just not smart enough to realize some people may get offended, they are innocent kids who aside the fact that they take drops that obviously are not ready for just wanted a place to train. Grave yards (in my opinion) are places were people store bodies, it is to my understanding that in the past people started doing that to avoid deceases, with time then they had a place to go back and morn for them if they wanted to. It is us who due to what is taught to us put this big meaning in stones on the ground were bones and dead bodies are store.

This bodies also make our history for the future generations, that I do defend, so if this kids damage this tombstones then I do think it is messed up, history is all we are and it is the one and only thing we can leave when we die.

I dont expect for anyone to agree and wont argue it as this is not something to really argue about it is just my point of view and opinion. After all we are all different and that is what makes us unique. Now I am going to light up a candle so more rain can fall in my dear acai berry seeds in south America. Love ya all.

Hey ozzi bout the death thing, thats the same thing i want to do. After my mom died when i was 6 we took her ashes to Half-Moon Bay San Francisco and threw her ashes into the water. I hope to do the same thing, and follow in the footsteps of my mother.


Back to the movie...Im disgusted that teenagers wouldn't even suggest thinking about the dead bodies they are vaulting over, just disgusts me.

[Ozzi]

I wanna give my opinion on this disregarding PK but tombstones in general, and I will hoping I wont get hated for this.

Not to long ago I told my wife -when I die, I want to be cremated and thrown in the ocean or from the top of a mountain-. -Why?- she asked out of curiosity more than amazement. To which I responded -Because I dont want people to go to a stone on the ground and cry for my ass. I am not there, it is all dirt, bones and maybe a few maggots. I am having fun in another plane of this universe, be happy that I evolved to another dimension-

My point, well ok yes, we leave in a world where religions lead this world, sad but true. I give all my respects to all of you who follow a religion and it is not my intend to offend anyone, this is just me speaking my mind and respecting everyone else for their opinion. I am just in my full right to give mine without fighting anyone else's believe, I just follow the path of the Acai and you know all that.

So in my opinion this kids are just not smart enough to realize some people may get offended, they are innocent kids who aside the fact that they take drops that obviously are not ready for just wanted a place to train. Grave yards (in my opinion) are places were people store bodies, it is to my understanding that in the past people started doing that to avoid deceases, with time then they had a place to go back and morn for them if they wanted to. It is us who due to what is taught to us put this big meaning in stones on the ground were bones and dead bodies are store.

This bodies also make our history for the future generations, that I do defend, so if this kids damage this tombstones then I do think it is messed up, history is all we are and it is the one and only thing we can leave when we die.

I dont expect for anyone to agree and wont argue it as this is not something to really argue about it is just my point of view and opinion. After all we are all different and that is what makes us unique. Now I am going to light up a candle so more rain can fall in my dear acai berry seeds in south America. Love ya all.

Hey ozzi bout the death thing, thats the same thing i want to do. After my mom died when i was 6 we took her ashes to Half-Moon Bay San Francisco and threw her ashes into the water. I hope to do the same thing, and follow in the footsteps of my mother.


Back to the movie...Im disgusted that teenagers wouldn't even suggest thinking about the dead bodies they are vaulting over, just disgusts me.

Why exactly does it disgust you?

[BearMills]

just the idea of people jumping on dead people, running and vaulting over peoples tombstones that is what disgusts me

[Ozzi]

Do you realize that as old as civilizations are we all are stepping on "dead people"? Again I respect the fact that some may think cemeteries are sacred. But again, you are not vaulting over dead people, you are vaulting over the reminds of a body. Once you are dad you are not longer a person, you are reminds. Just bones, nails and hair.

Just keep that in mind. They are vaulting over concrete structures which people give a religious significant meaning.

[BearMills]

I see where your getting at, and thank-you for bringing that up...but i am one of those people who has tremendous amount of respect for the church even though im Buddhist..

[Steve Zavitz]

I am in agreement with Ozzi and Adam with this one.  I personally think that death is overrated (read John Donne's "Death Be Not Proud," and I think you'll understand where I'm coming from), and I believe that we should celebrate the life of those we have lost as opposed to mourning their death.  I don't view a cemetery as "sacred ground," but I respect that most people need a place where they can mourn and contemplate the death of a loved one.  At a cemetery, people can tune out the hustle and bustle of the world while sitting in a quiet solitude.  This allows them to reflect on the life of those they have lost, and perhaps talk to them if they believe in that sort of thing.  I agree with Robulus in that there are cultural boundaries that need to be observed even if you don't share them yourself.

Now, getting to the core of the problem.  I think that most people are upset over this because of the immaturity that these kids displayed.  Rather than trying to justify their actions in an eloquent way, they simply stated that there wasn't much else to do or that there weren't enough places to train.  That's the thing that bothers me; not that they were vaulting over tombstones, but that they didn't even consider why they thought it was okay.  Well, that's my two cents.

[deadlyMETAL]

I think the insults are not necessary, it doesnt make you look any better than them.

I didn't think much of them except that it was just my opinion, but I don't really insult people like that unless I'm profoundly influenced against them. In short, yeah, it doesn't look good for me, but it wasn't my aim in the message to make myself look good--just to make my point and get some understanding from them.

At any rate, I did receive a reply from them. I'm going to take a little time to wait and think out a proper and respectful response, as I see their point of view. If you guys would like to read:

we accept that you are offended a lot but there are somethings that the papers didn't explain such as WE HAVEN'T BEEN BACK THERE FOR 3 MONTHS SINCE THE VID CAME OUT BECAUSE WE WERE TOLD NOT TO AND REALISED PEOPLE WERE OFFENDED BY US GOING ON 300 YEAR OLD GRAVES, NO NEW ONES. you might think that that is just an excuse to cover our backs and that it is still disresectful, we know it is, and we have grown up since then and realised the error of our ways (before the paper came out). we now train in our village park and sometimes in exeter and when the papers came out it was old news that no one who i know cares about! it's just people like you who are afraid that we will give parkour a bad name because of a stupid newspaper report about us that they were saving for a day when there was no news that would interest people. and you're calling us poseurs, we put the vids up to show our friends at school so we are not arrogant twats as you may think we are, and you don't have to insult someone to get a point across, we already know there are angry people out there who probably want to kick us all to death, but that is what newspapers do: make people people angry at each other even if they don't know them for who they really are. we don't want to become "real traceurs" we just want to have fun so leave us alone and mind your own buisness.

we have taken your point and we know your pissed off so we are sorry for being such pricks in your eyes.

Me, I'm not going to insult them or criticize them in my response -- I think they definitely got the message from the media about it. You guys think they're justified now that they have 'grown up since then'? I do.

[Adam McC]

They seem perfectly mature to me, and they are a hundred percent correct and, in my opinion, overly humble about it. I sensed from the report, it's really just an excuse for over-societized old men and woman to vent their frustration at our unorthodox ways of thinking, moving, and living. The fact that the newspaper and media industry latched onto it is proof.

[Alex Melusky]

Meh the people in graves are just dead. Nothing wrong with it. You can step on Native's Burial Grounds but not on ours? I just didn't really like the video because there wasn't really any parkour or freerunning in it. 

[bigninjapimp]

You forget the fact that grave stones cost over thousands of dollars. And that they hard enough to keep intact over the years without people jumping on them.