hardcoretraceur
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« on: May 04, 2008, 06:14:20 AM » |
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Does training in splits or to be very flexible in general reduce power output?
I don't really understand the matter, but it seems to me as the 'tighter the rubber band' is the easier it will fly.
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Sam "Notsolittleninja"
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2008, 08:22:40 AM » |
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No, it just means you can stretch them farther. Oh, and they are not like rubber bands. They tighten and loosen.
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The only thing that limits you is yourself. There is only one way...your own way. Don't settle. Fear is just my body telling me I have to be careful. Go with the flow, but give the current a fight. Reach for the sky!
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Chris Salvato
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2008, 08:43:10 AM » |
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Your muscles are actually more like rubber bands than you think, ninja...
I thought we spoke about this, jesse? Stretching will immediately reduce your power output for about 15 minutes after you stretch.
Unless you take your flexibility to a degree of contortion (stretching beyond a functional ROM) then you should not see significant drops in power. Also, training strength at the extreme ROMs through stretching techniques like PNF, forced relaxation and controlled breathing will help to ensure that you are strong in those ROMs as well as flexible.
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Muse_of_Fire
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2008, 09:28:14 AM » |
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As mentioned, it can have an immediate, short-lived effect. And of course if all you do is flexibility train, without complementary strength training, then you will lose power. But this has more to do with the lack of strength/power training than the flexibility per se. Plenty of athletes are simultaneously flexible and powerful. I present as evidence the switch-leap at 3:29 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhYfvs75b0I&feature=relatedAnd also the outstanding manege in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2e2gupcJ9M&feature=related
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She followed slowly, taking a long time, as though there were some obstacle in the way; and yet: as though, once it was overcome, she would be beyond all walking, and would fly. --excerpt from Going Blind, Rainer Maria Rilke www.madparkour.com
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Animus
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2008, 11:33:02 AM » |
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Yes, that's why you don't want to do any static stretching before or during a workout. Hyperflexibility can be problematic, but I'd stick with what Muse is saying. Other than that, just train flexibility to a functional level.
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Zachary Cohn
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2008, 07:48:10 PM » |
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I see highly inflexible people at Taekwondo all the time. It isn't a rubber-band effect so much as a rope effect. When they try to do a roundhouse kick, for example, their kicking leg starts to kick, and the other leg literally gets pulled along behind it (either rotating, or knocking them down, or whatever). An Axe kick is another great example. People try to kick way too high, and their leg on the ground gets pulled out from under them.
So not a rubber band, more like a rope.
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Steve Low
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2008, 08:48:08 PM » |
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No. ~15 minutes after static stretching.. as previously mentioned.
If you want more information about this subject look up "muscle spindles." Inhibition of the stretch-shorten cycle corresponds to the loss in power and strength temporarily.
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« Last Edit: May 04, 2008, 08:50:04 PM by Steve Low »
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Use the search function, please.
Any advice given is not to be taken as professional information either medical, training or nutritional.
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hardcoretraceur
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2008, 10:10:46 PM » |
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this was more in relation to training splits than stretching in general
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Chris Salvato
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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2008, 10:35:20 PM » |
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incorporate techniques that increase strength while stretching. To reiterate, forced relaxation and PNF stretching are both good examples of this.
I would imagine that dynamic stretches are also good for maintaining power production.
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Ken PKChiro
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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2008, 10:46:51 PM » |
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but be careful with PNF stretching, as it facilitates neurologic gains in flexibility, it also puts your muscles in extreme vulnerable states, to make injury very easy.
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Any information or advice given is not to be interpreted as diagnosis, or statements of causality, conditions should be evaluated by a licensed practitioner of Chiropractic or Medical Doctor IN PERSON. Therefore treatment recommendation should be considered similarly and bears no consequence to me.
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Muse_of_Fire
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2008, 09:20:57 PM » |
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Yeah, I would be very, very cautious about PNF. Just reading about it makes me nervous. In terms of splits training, specifically, affecting explosivity, I don't see why training a specific ROM (because that's all splits is, is an expression of ROM) would affect explosivity any differently than any other stretch. As stated, you lose explosive power for about 15 minutes or so after static stretching. It doesn't matter if you were stretching for splits or stretching your calves or anything else. The muscles stretched, in a static fashion, will be less explosive for about 15 minutes afterwards. The big question here is why one would be training for splits. In ballet, I need to be able to do the splits for high kicks and high extensions, and also for split leaps. So I train those splits using a combination of static stretching (a gentle split series before ballet class to simply say, "Hello, body. Remember this?") and dynamic stretching (high kicks, high extensions, and split leaps during ballet class). It is better to train the ROM by actually using the ROM in the way you will need it for your sport. So if you want the splits to be able to, say, leap from pylon to pylon over a wider distance in your parkour, you should train the splits using a series to work up to it at home, and also by doing split leaps while parkour training after you are fully warm. If you want to be able to do the splits just to be able to do them, then static stretching is just fine, and it shouldn't affect your power, except during the much-described 15-minute window.  Hope that helps.
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She followed slowly, taking a long time, as though there were some obstacle in the way; and yet: as though, once it was overcome, she would be beyond all walking, and would fly. --excerpt from Going Blind, Rainer Maria Rilke www.madparkour.com
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hardcoretraceur
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2008, 06:21:12 PM » |
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taken from: http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=2985Why do we do the Sampson Stretch for our official Crossfit Warm-up? There has been a din lately about stretching, especially static stretching. Our resident gymnastics coaches endorse stretching after a workout. Dan John says overhead squats are all you need and stretching, especially in warm-ups could cause injury! I’m not going to argue with any of them…but we do the Sampson stretch IN OUR WARMUPS, seemingly against all coaches advise. Ok first off what is the Sampson stretch: Link your fingers together at eye level, arms straight, palms facing away from your body. Go into a lunge, with your rear knee on the floor, raise your arms over your head, and now really stretch your HIP FLEXORS, and shoulders, hold for 15 - 30 seconds, switch legs. Hey, that’s a static stretch, for the hip flexors, prior to exercise!
A number of studies have been conducted which show static stretching, prior to weight training weakens the contraction (Google it, no need for me to link). This is BAD. We don’t want weak contractions prior to weight training, do we? Well let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. Instead let’s do a little test. Put some chalk on your fingers of your dominant hand. Stand next to a wall, and jump as high as you can (vertical jump) touch the wall. For you naysayers out there…rest three minutes and repeat. Now rest up 5 - 10 minutes. Prior to conducting your little jump test, do the Sampson stretch, really static stretch those hip flexors. Now do the test. Whoa, you jumped higher didn’t you! How is this possible. Well, coaches preparing college football players for the NFL combine tests have been doing this for years to improve vertical jump. What we are doing is making your hip flexors weaker by static stretching them…yep, now the drive upward (using your posterior chain) in not slowed down by those pesky tight hip flexors.
Think of it this way: Go into a squat and think of your hip flexors as springs. If those springs are short and tightened they slow down your upward push, completely release the tension of the spring and your up like a rocket. So how does this translate to us… we don’t do a lot of jumping, but jumping exhibits triple extension. We do a lot of triple and double extension. All O-lifts are triple extension squats and deadlifts are double extension. When performing these lifts we want to explode upward…our tight, strong hip flexors inhibit us. Static stretching them frees us to exhibit greater power. Once again Coach drops a gem in, with no comment, and it’s genius. Comments?
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keep it free and true Over Under OUTkrew is OUTgoing Through
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Chris Salvato
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2008, 06:39:24 PM » |
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+1 Jesse, good find for sure
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Jereme Sanders
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« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2008, 10:36:11 AM » |
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when I was working on my splits, which I need to get back into since I lost them again  but I would work them and then do leg kicks and things to get the strength back, since your are being opened up and the muscles are being worked passed what they are used to they lack the strength which is why they are weak after a bit, thats why i'd work the leg kicks and stuff, but thats just how I was working it.
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