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Ozzi
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« on: April 03, 2008, 05:07:21 PM » |
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I am not sure where I am going with this, but I think along the lines you will get my point.
I hope this can open your eyes how it opened mine.
The Ultimate Traceur
I can say confidently that one of the reasons us traceurs/traceuses love parkour is because of the fact that once again we are going back to our roots and relearning the way our ancestors transported around in order to survive.
I am pretty confident that in a survival situation we have a high advantage over non-traceurs, or do we?
Yes, we can most likely escape, probably hunt down. We posses the power of ability and fast reactions in our movements, but, can we really survive?
I believe that the ultimate traceur not only should be capable to being able to hunt and escape but know his natural surroundings in order to survive out in the wild. Think about it, say you are all of a sudden thrown in a remote jungle with nothing but a knife. If you are a passionate and skilled traceur you might be calmed and even a little "excited" for the first few hours (wanting to explore, play around, do some natural parkour) but...
Would you be able to survive? know what plants to eat or not to eat? how to make fire? build a basic shelter with your surroundings? What about first aids with no medicine?
As a traceur we don't see obstacles but opportunities to use our creative mind to come out with a effective solution. We train our bodies to be capable to overcome physical obstacles, but are we training our natural instincts of survival? Are we trying to acquire the knowledge needed for a situation such at this?
It is very unlikely that we will even just be thrown in a jungle, but is you are like me, you love go camping to explore different worlds, the urban and the rural. And when you put yourself in this situations ANYTHING can happen.
I am not saying now that we all should take basic or advance survival classes, although I would, but even on the internet or tv there is so much information these days, book, etc. Or you can just watch "Man Versus Wild & Survivor Man" and take notes to start from.
We talk about freedom, we talk about how we are free to move how we want. We train to "be strong, be useful" but what if we find out the hard way that all the physical training that we do is not going to be useful for use in ALL situations? Do you still feel free?
The Ultimate Traceur posses the biggest feeling of freedom. No matter what situation he or she will encounter, they are certain they will be able to survive.
Again, I am not sure where I am going with this, and it is hard to put in words the thoughts I have in mind, but in this days of craziness, where peace in uncertain and the natural elements are getting a little wacky it would not hurt to become The Ultimate Traceur.
Like Hebert once said "be strong, be useful"
Ozzi
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« Last Edit: April 03, 2008, 05:12:38 PM by Ozzi »
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 "If you cant fly, run. if you cant run, jog. If you cant jog, walk. If you cant walk, crawl. But by all means keep moving." Mr King My Blog |
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AdamMcC [Feng]
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2008, 05:26:24 PM » |
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I hear what you're saying. Are we really training ourselves to survive in our environment?
I think the gap in your point is that you mentioned how if we were thrown in a remote jungle. The point is, we don't live in remote jungles. In our day and age, that is not how we survive. In today's society, we survive by making money, knowing people and making friends, social skills and intelligence. That is our real environment. And our minds and bodies from kindergarden onwards are being trained to survive in that environment. Someone who can survive in the jungle on their own might enter our world and try to drive a car, and die. So your definition of someone who can survive, in reality, wouldn't.
So, as you said, we use obstacles as opportunities. This is the concept from our basic roots that we can apply to any situation anywhere. Including modern society. This is one of the things that makes us different.
So, that being said, what on earth are we doing parkour for, if we live in a world where you have to earn money and drive to survive. The philosophical parts of parkour aside, even in society, it is often necessary to run away, escape, or even catch someone. That is part of our society. Thiefs and robbers, things like that. Also, in connection with Hebert, we use parkour to train our bodies to their prime ability, for reasons of usefulness, and also our obligation and responsibility to the human race to continue to evolve in a positive direction.
So learning to build a fire and find food and plants, not useless, but not as applicable in our actual environment as say, having good business skills.
We have to adapt our parkour (our route, our way) to the environment around us. Even the ones we don't agree with.
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Ozzi
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2008, 05:37:36 PM » |
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You have very valid point..
However, we are born in this society and are everyday trained to survive in it, everything is there for you, just get a job, followed the rules and dont go against the government. If one dont survive, honestly they are retards.
In nature, everything is there for you, if you dont survive then you are just not wise enough to think ahead.
My point is, we are train to survive in society, we gotta get ready for what we are not trained for but can still happen.
I like your point though.
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"If you cant fly, run. if you cant run, jog. If you cant jog, walk. If you cant walk, crawl. But by all means keep moving." Mr King My Blog |
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dominion17
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2008, 06:10:41 PM » |
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Wow you guys are deep haha... i like Ozzi's point, even though we live in a society where survival is achieved by how successful we are at our jobs or making money, we do not live in completely inhabited environment and there always is a chance of a life or death survival situation so why not train your body to be able to survive in any situation we could possible encounter?
And on the topic of the survival television show, the show "i shouldn't be alive" is the prime example for the worst situation. Think of how much greater their chances of surviving would be if they were already for survival in advance.
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Gabe `SKY` Arnold
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2008, 01:49:30 PM » |
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So after reading all the posts I've come to the conclusion that the ultimate traceur is a person totally comfortable with his surroundings. Be it nature, city, or some combination of both, that person will be able to both move and survive as easily in one as the other. A 'jack of all trades' essentially.
So by that definition, the ultimate traceur is a complete person. Physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, everything. Complete.
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Very little is needed to make a happy life.
---Marcus Aurelius
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Ozzi
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2008, 02:20:30 PM » |
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So after reading all the posts I've come to the conclusion that the ultimate traceur is a person totally comfortable with his surroundings. Be it nature, city, or some combination of both, that person will be able to both move and survive as easily in one as the other. A 'jack of all trades' essentially.
So by that definition, the ultimate traceur is a complete person. Physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, everything. Complete.
Exactly but not just complete, but balanced with all those characteristics. |
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"If you cant fly, run. if you cant run, jog. If you cant jog, walk. If you cant walk, crawl. But by all means keep moving." Mr King My Blog |
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Alex (Zalorticus) Melusky
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2008, 06:16:37 PM » |
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i'm gonna make a survival notebook for whenever i watch survival shows. I have read a survival handbook almost 20 times or so.
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Don't think, feel! It is like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory. -Bruce Lee
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Animus
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2008, 06:32:07 PM » |
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I don't think this really has anything to do with Parkour.. except maybe a little add-on (like so many other things). Parkour is the base... what you choose to do with it, or what you choose to add to it... all up to you. I see no reason to overcomplicate Parkour by "amending" it, so to speak... But I do think basic survival skills is something everyone should have. But a few years in the Boy Scouts when I was young did quite a wonder on my ability to build shelter, find food, and the like. I'm one of the only people I know who can identify poisonous plants by leaf shape.  When I was doing natural environment training with my community last fall, I tried to give a quick lesson in spotting poisonous plants, but they couldn't retain the information. |
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Gabe `SKY` Arnold
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2008, 07:40:28 PM » |
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I see what you mean Animus, it's not really about parkour. Parkour is the base, the rest the add-ons that are not truly necessary, but still great to have. I believe the point is more about how you would define a traceur in the broadest terms. If the idea of parkour is to be efficient and useful, it makes sense that a person might want to apply that idea to many or all aspects of life. I want to know what to do in any given situation.
I've read many a survival guide myself. Tom Brown's Field Guide to Wilderness Survival comes to mind. That and I'm addicted to Survivorman and the like. It's just comforting to know I can figure out public transit in a city, cat leap a 10 foot gap, or build a lean-to shelter in the forest. You can never have too many skills haha.
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Very little is needed to make a happy life.
---Marcus Aurelius
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Ozzi
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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2008, 08:25:32 PM » |
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^^^Exactly^^^
You did catch the idea...
and animus, you might be right it has nothing to do with parkour, from your point of view. But again parkour is about problem solving, overcoming obstcles, thats what defines a traceur, right? Someone who doesnt see barriers or obstacles, but opportunities and possibilities, well in my opinion the "Ultimate Traceur" would be start enough to train every aspect of problem solving and survival to overcome any obstacles in any given situation.
See what I mean.
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"If you cant fly, run. if you cant run, jog. If you cant jog, walk. If you cant walk, crawl. But by all means keep moving." Mr King My Blog |
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Animus
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« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2008, 10:24:02 AM » |
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Yes, but I think you're definitely extrapolating, and this is what causes "camps" to form. Parkour is the discipline and spirit of movement; end. When we begin to reach outward into the abstract, we begin to heavily disagree on what x means and what y insinuates, even though there has only ever been ONE Parkour, despite the fact that we can all add onto it and view it in our own ways. I don't believe we should ever forget what that base is, because once we do, we begin to fight... And that started years ago, so what we need to focus on now is finding a way to bring people together again.
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Ozzi
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« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2008, 07:23:26 PM » |
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Parkour is the discipline and spirit of movement; end.
Thats were I have to disagree, maybe then lets talk then about what the principal idea of George Hebert was. The Mthode Naturelle where the main focus is to develop physical and mental strength that can be use to survive under ANY circumstances. To be able to help yourself and others. And after all parkour come from the influence of this idea. "Etre fort port etre utile" And we all already know what that means. |
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"If you cant fly, run. if you cant run, jog. If you cant jog, walk. If you cant walk, crawl. But by all means keep moving." Mr King My Blog |
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Elet "E.T."
Patas
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« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2008, 07:53:28 PM » |
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I've read many a survival guide myself. Tom Brown's Field Guide to Wilderness Survival comes to mind. That and I'm addicted to Survivorman and the like.
Just remember to put in the dirt time, knowing and applying are two way different skills. |
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Anarchy is not chaos, but order without control.
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Animus
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2008, 09:17:01 AM » |
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Ozzi, the point is that Parkour is NOT MN and MN is NOT Parkour. Parkour got a lot of things from MN; the ideas of movement and a lot of the motivation, sure. The methodology of training can be similar (and yet so very distinct) and the altruistic principle is there, but to put it simply... Parkour is not and will never be Hebertisme. Furthermore, the main focus of MN is not survival. That's an effect. The focus is to combine physical training with moral training, to look back into the history of human culture, derive natural training methodologies for functionality, so as to build strong character. Hebert believed that physical training necessitated moral training, and that the two were not independent.
"Etre fort pour être utile" is an MN motto, as well you know.
Now recall the mottos of Parkour. "Etre et durer." "Faire, faire bien, faire vite et bien."
I'm not saying this training is ever a bad thing, but it is beyond the scope of Parkour, and a traceur does not become "more complete" of a traceur by virtue of it (but more complete of a person? Probably). The goal of Parkour is not to become more free, not to become useful in every circumstance.. but only to be more useful, period. What we do with that utility is up to the individual, and for people like myself and like you, that will ultimately include survival training, and I can't speak for you, but likely first aid, life-saving techniques and so forth. However, this is above and beyond Parkour itself, however it may be inspired from the principles and virtues of Parkour.
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Lachance
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« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2008, 11:14:19 AM » |
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I am not sure where I am going with this, but I think along the lines you will get my point.
I hope this can open your eyes how it opened mine.
The Ultimate Traceur
I can say confidently that one of the reasons us traceurs/traceuses love parkour is because of the fact that once again we are going back to our roots and relearning the way our ancestors transported around in order to survive.
I am pretty confident that in a survival situation we have a high advantage over non-traceurs, or do we?
It'd be funny to see a caveman doing parkour. How does that work? Monkey vaults over low tree branches? Rolls off cliffs? We don't have the advantage if they have machine guns...   Speaking of advantages, check this out! Not my work, btw " http://www.youtube.com/v/v-ctg5nwLWs&rel=0&hl=en" " http://www.youtube.com/v/xfm1h8Rw03Q&rel=0&hl=en" I strongly reccomend District B13, awesome movie, even with bad voiceovers in english... edit: that's the top one, if anyone didn't know. |
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« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 11:20:12 AM by Lachance »
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I'm a Mainah!
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