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Author Topic: Rolls absorb vertical impact?  (Read 1013 times)
David Glass
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« on: March 07, 2008, 12:45:20 PM »

I'm new to this and have been reading up on rolls.

I have no plans to make jumps off of anything higher than my picnic table, but I know practicing rolls is in order, so this question comes to mind

I've seen people rolling after high drops, but without forward momentum, I don't understand how this is helping to absorb impact.

So far I've followed Ozzi's Landing tutorial and am practicing my landing without rolls, and am practicing my rolls separately. I'd like to integrate the two, but if indeed rolling does absorb vertical momentum, can someone help indicate how to transition from a drop to a roll? what am I looking to do? what am I looking not to do?

Thanks!
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« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2008, 12:53:58 PM »

Roll helps transfer forward momentum, the transfer of downward momentum with the roll is minimal if any.
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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2008, 12:57:03 PM »

I thought so.

I was scratching my head going "I wonder how that works...?"

The only thing I could think of is MAYBE it lets your legs absorb more impact as your shoulder makes it to the ground for the roll, but as you said, that would probably me negligle

On the other hand, if you DO have forward momentum when making a vertical drop, you don't want to absorb that additional momentum with the landing, so you'd roll
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Jordan "Sirlig" Nelson
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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2008, 01:00:43 PM »

Well, like zujitsu said, the vertical momentum will still be great, but if you transfer into a roll before you completely land and absorb all the vertical impact, some of that impact will go into forward momentum of a roll.

Think through it;  if you do a roll after you completely land and finish a drop, obviously the roll's not doing much since the drop is over and you've taken the impact.  However, if you roll while you are landing and compress at the right timing, it's as though you've "half-landed" and you're still taking some of the impact while you go into the roll, transfering that momentum forward, thus lessening the overall vertical impact.

That's not a great explanation, but it's the best I know how to phrase it!  Grin

As far as what to look for in transitioning, you need to work on timing.  Timing, timing, timing.  If you roll too late after a drop, no impact is taken away.  It's as though you're doing two completely separate movements.  A drop.  Then a roll.  If you try to do it too early, you'll probably end up messing up the roll because you haven't landed on the ground yet.

So, as you land, you'll begin to compress your knees. As you begin to compress, aim with your arms where you'll be starting the roll, and lean into the roll, beginning the whole process.  Your knees will probably extend again a little bit, and then you go into the roll.

Practice practice practice!

*Note: rolls are probably more effective when there is a drop with some forward momentum, like you said;  A straight drop, especially from a substantial height, it would be difficult to even go into a roll because of the amount of downward momentum.
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2008, 01:02:21 PM »

I think about it a lot like blocking. Except instead of the momentum going from forward to upward, it goes from downward to forwards in the roll.
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David Glass
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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2008, 01:09:07 PM »

Hmmmm...

Starting to get it now.

Basically, it seems like the objective is to transfer downward momentum into forward momentum. This would be the opposite of what you do when you kick up walls, where you transfer, through your feet, forward momentum into upward momentum.

This is probably why traceurs insist so much on practicing the rolls. Basically, if you get it wrong, you're looking at a nice head-bang into the floor, but if you practice, you can get that transfer right

SWEEEEEET!!!!

I'll start practicing this off my picnic table... I know it has been discussed at lenght how trying this off of something 3'' or less is kind of dumb, but I need to build up confidence :-)

BTW: Just so I don't get yelled at, yes, I've been practicing off the floor :-)

Thanks!
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« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2008, 02:09:03 PM »

Whenever you are doing the landing technique instead of going all the way down as you drop straight down stop half way then start tiling forward to transition onto the roll. It doesn't feel as natural as it would when you carry momentum but you will get use to it and it will help transferring impact.
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2008, 06:51:41 AM »

With physics in mind, the roll applies Shearing (liquid-type) effects to the downward momentum effectively transferring some force into parallel force instead of perpendicular. A friend of mine, who has been doing parkour for about 4 years (so he understands the movement well) and just so happens to have a Bachelor's in Physics, explained it all very well to me. I wish I was as physics minded to give a better explanation!

But yeah, simple put Levi's got it right with his blocking example  Tongue
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2008, 08:33:11 AM »

With physics in mind, the roll applies Shearing (liquid-type) effects to the downward momentum effectively transferring some force into parallel force instead of perpendicular.

So.... yes LMAO

No worries. I studied 3 yrs of physics myself. I know what you're talking about  Cheesy
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2008, 04:18:53 PM »

I always believed that the purpose of a roll was to transfer energy instead of "absorbing" it (I know energy can not be absorbed but I couldn't think of how to say it correctly  Tongue).  All of the rolls I have seen/done smoothly the momentum "throws" you back to your feet after the roll.  Just my $.02
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2008, 01:56:30 AM »

the roll does transfer energy, from just your legs to your entire back, plus the momentum trade-off if you're able to do it fluently enough to keep on running.  the whole absorption part only applies to falling rolls, which are usually poorly done, and only work by increasing the surface area of the impact.  however, since forward momentum is needed in parkour, a falling roll is useless, especially since if you can't keep going, all of that energy has to stop somewhere, most likely in a broken shoulder, tailbone or ankle.
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2008, 09:30:08 AM »

um ok i read through this thread and a lot of you have some of the ideas behind rolling but not really the main one.

look the importance of rolling from high jumps is significant. its not to transfer vertical momentum to vertical momentum. its more like the fluid idea mentioned earlier which was kind of close. your bones can withstand up to a ton of force however it is not exactly healthy for them.

the idea behind the roll is that when you land the energy (force of impact) does not stay on any one particular part of the body for more than about 1/10th of a second. when the roll is done properly it transfers the force and many different areas of the body share the force thus reducing the amount of force any one particular area has to withstand.

there was a show on t.v. (i think the discovery channel) that had the guy that invented the screwdriver (forget his name), anyways it explained the roll (scientifically) extremely well. im looking for it but its hard to find. ill post it if i can find it.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 09:33:32 AM by Robillard » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2008, 12:07:59 PM »

And just on the side, you should avoid vertical drops as much as you can. The more you can jump outwards, the better off you are for above reasons. Take a jog off a roof before you stand on the edge and hop off it. ...If you're jumping off a roof, which I don't suggest Wink.
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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2008, 07:12:44 PM »

The way I learned about it is to keep your legs tensed through the fall, and when you hit the ground, shift your weight forward then use the tension that has been added to your legs to throw yourself into the roll. This is basically Reverse blocking. Hope this helps  Grin
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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2008, 04:39:36 AM »

I swear rolls are liike finger prints, everyones different.

Your standard roll may not do a very good job from heights. Once your ready, start looking into Advanced roll techniques. This involves the way you jump and land. There are a couple different techniques for re directing that momentum. The video for Advanced Roll Techniques should be right here on APK.
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