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Author Topic: A worthwile product promotion of UFF  (Read 1797 times)
Rafe
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« on: January 17, 2006, 11:20:26 PM »

I am not a big fan of UFF but this is worth looking at.
http://www.urbanfreeflow.com/the_core_level/pages/archives/method_of_movement.htm

I have run into pose running at a couple other fitness forums I frequent and read up on what I could and thought it would be valuable for a traceur. I meant to reveiw it once I found the money to buy the product but UFF beat me to it.
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Mark Toorock
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2006, 04:48:47 AM »

That is a great article. I'd say that I prefer the Chi Running method, but both are worth a look and of course an informed decision is best made after reviewing ALL available information. The difference is that Chi running is more of a "falling forward" than "pulling" method, using the forward lean of the body to take advantage of gravity to pull one's self forward in a run, which helps to miniize effort and strain and injury from running. The benefit I see is that if people "try" to run a certain way they'll inevitably ADD tension by trying to be in a certain pose or posture, as opposed to just letting their body do what it knows and was designed to do.

The Core Pages on UF have some very good information in them.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2006, 04:53:28 AM by M2 » Logged

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Quazar
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2006, 05:16:29 PM »

Thats really interesting, "falling forward"  I'd like to check that out, very cool.

I've thought allot myself about the idea of running like a child, how as children we run completely uninhibited and with perfect, unlearned technique.

Good stuff
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Rafe
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2006, 12:49:39 AM »

I work with children 5 days a week teaching gymnastics and thats exactly why I Romanov's appraoch attracted me while chi running didn't. The fact is that very few of my kids run well naturally. Gus one of my best gymnasts has way to much tension in his body when he runs he tries to hard so can't relax into his stride, another one of my talented gymnast Austin strong, quick and supple otherwise runs horribley his heal hits first ever time and his feet turn out excessively, he is extremely slow footed. I could go on and on, most children have many techinical errors in their running, teaching how to run properly is giant job in teaching kids to vault properly. For all but one child on my team most of their deductions at the last meet were from the run up not their actual vault.
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2006, 04:32:53 PM »

Is that right, hmm, dissapointing, I never actually researched that fact, just thought about it.  You know how it is, parents tend to get a little weird when they see you staring at their kids Wink

The reason I found it so interesting is because as a kid I could run faster than anything, I mean I felt like I could outrun a car, you know how it is when your a kid and your made out of rubber, always impervious to injury.  I miss being able to run full out like that without feeling the nagging of injury.  That is likely why I was so attracted to the concept in the first place.
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Josh Klute
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2006, 04:57:57 PM »

That was a great article, it really does explain the bases behind running.  I've been running track as a spinter for 4 years now and I've learned an immense amount about running.  This article stated that a more natural and efficient way of running is to in a way pull yourself forward with the help of gravity.  This can be done by pushing your knees forward, It's the main reason that rack coaches try to reall emphasize "high knees" in running.  I still haven't completely perfected my personal form, but it is an ongoing process.  I would encourage all tracuers to try bettering their form, it will greatly increase the efficiency of a run.   Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2006, 05:15:03 PM »

Faelcind, I would say that has something to do with the performance aspect of what you're training. Watch a kid run from friends on the playground while playing tag and it's totally different than watching them run when they're trying to function up to a certain standard. The point is, this is the same reason older people run badly, too, from years of tension (poor sitting posture, too much sitting in general, not enough physical activity, daily stress, etc.) and if we regain that feeling of freedom and fun when we run, our form will naturally improve. Just check out the Kenyans...they don't learn running form, they just do it because it's a natural movement, no strings attached. When they make it to the Olympics this is ingrained in their stride, so they seem totally cool and relaxed while spanking the runners with form coaches!
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2006, 05:41:47 PM »

Faelcind, very interesting, your findings are exactly opposite of the Chi Running book which starts by talking about how children know how to run because they don't try!!
I wonder if it's different for kids in gymnastics because they are pushed to perform, and therefore as you mention are tight, etc?  I think that this affects Traceurs as well, we "know" how to run pretty well, but then in practice of going up to an obstacle we often faulter, mis-step, mis-time our steps, all the things we don't tend to do when we're "on a run" or actually "doing" Parkour.

What do you think?
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2006, 05:43:27 PM »

OK, my computer (or something about these forums) is definitely hosed!! While I was replying Cheetah and Gear's replies went up, but to me anyway, they are posted at 7:57 and 8:15, with mine at 8:41!! I don't get it :/
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Josh Klute
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2006, 07:50:20 PM »

Hmmm, that is wierd, I posted mine at 5:57 mountain time, but wouldn't that mean that it would be right?  Aren't you guys two hours ahead out there?  That would make mine at 7:57, and gears at 8:15 you're time, that seems right to me.  Are you saying that your posts are going up at different times than you place them?  Well whatever it is I hope you get it figured out, I have faith in you Wink.
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Rafe
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2006, 12:33:02 AM »

Thats a valid point gear, Gus who I used as an example runs better when playing tag(we regularly play games like tag) the same tendency are still there , Austin runs just as incorrectly when being chased, infact you can pretty much tell wich kids will succeed in game of tag by weather the naturally run on the balls of their feet or not.


Quazar I think your running into a problem of perception ever little kid I teach thinks he can run extremely fast. Why cause their fastest running feels very fast to them. You wouldn't be beleive how many kids tell me I am the fastest, I am fast, I faster then a jet, a cheetah etc.

I want to go back and talk about the kenyans adult kenyan runners run incredible well not because everone naturally runs well but because the have refined that motor skill over a life time of use. The children I teach are be and large products of sedentary lifestyle, the don't run very well cause the rarely run.

Children are incredible mallable and learn extremely well. I often feel that they learn as much through simple observation and trial and error as through my actually teaching. I think its very likely that most children would learn basically good running biomechanics given the lifestyle demands common among kenyans.  However just because something is possible doesn't mean it is the shortest easiest way to that goal. Its likely that many of my gymnasts could eventually learn a front handspring simply by watching the skill performed and then through trial and error. The skill comes much quicker when I give them specific performance goals, kinesthetic learning help and progression drills. I think the same is true for running. We can refine it through proper teaching.


 
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2006, 11:15:03 AM »

It's nice isn't it Smiley

Thanks this is all plenty o' good information to think about, I appreciate it.

One question though.  You said they all run on the balls of their feet.  Do you mean without the use of their heels?

The reason this interests me is because, again, as a child I did this very thing, I learned to run (for whatever reason) on just the balls of my feet.  This honestly felt faster, it simply seemed as if I was running to fast to put my heels to the ground and roll my entire sole across it from heel to toe.  Again, these are just conceptions I remember from childhood, feel free to pick this apart, I'm just here to learn. Smiley

You know, most of the fastest running animals on the planet actually run on what is the skeletal equivilent of just the balls of their feet.  The "big toe"  which is placed in more of a thumb-like position is located further up the length of the ankle, bveyond purpose for running.  Any thoughts?
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Rafe
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2006, 12:11:16 PM »

I think you should defineatly run on the balls of your foot. To be more specific the ball of your foot should strike the ground first, this is what all sprint coaches will teach you. Given the nature of parkour we should by and large run like sprinters cause we need the ability to be explosive at any given moment, furthermore if you follow the pose logic which I think is correct then no matter what distance you run its most biomechanically correct to ball strike.
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Josh Klute
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2006, 12:28:25 PM »

Well I don;t know too much about distance running, but with sprinting you must run on the balls of your feet.  Of course I don't see why you would want to run on your heel, for one thing it is very difficult.  It can also damage your heel if you run on it continously over time.  Running on the balls of your feet feels much more natural when you get used to it Wink
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« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2006, 05:14:56 PM »

One thing I'd like to warn you all about is that if you have weak ankles (like me) then you will at first start to run on the balls of your feet and feel great! It's faster easier and more comfortable than when you use your heel, and many many animals use this technique, in fact most quadrapeds do.

Look at the legs of a dog. they have a short-ish thigh, then the shin bone, then what seems to be another bone, leading down to the feet, making a z shaped leg. That last bone is the same one as the human 'arch' of the foot. So in essence dogs move only on their toes. Horses take that a step further as they run on their 'nails' or hooves. What this does is provide them with the longest leg possible, meaning that they have a longer stride, so a faster and easier run.

Humans are able to pick and mix, using the heel when they need to, but if there is ever the opportunity, they (we) can run on our toes and thus increase our stride by a couple of inches. Trust me it helps and you can really feel it.

The only problem is that when you've had a shit running technique all your life, your ankles are not strong enough to withstand repetative shocks (as the ankle dampens the landing loads and makes you run smoother) which leads to a pretty bad case of shin splints and quite serious damage to the joint area (esp. cartillage) which re-surfaces any old sprains which you might have had. I've had a pain in my right ankle (the foot which I use to do passes de barrier, or wall hops) for the last couple of months, which has disabled me from running any more than about 10 steps and forced me to land on the heel which I fear is damaging my knees. Shoes don't make much difference in this case by the way, so don't think a good soft pair of shoes will save you. They won't

Before you start on this running technique, I seriously advise strengthening your ankles, do things like calf raises and any other ankle based exercise. Standing on one foot and balancing is also a good technique, as well as soft bouncing. DO NOT OVER DO IT. You will not feel when you've gone too far till half a month or so later. You need to set yourself reasonable limits and stick to them.

All in all, great running technique, no flaws with it, but if you have seen the episode of animatrix with the runner in it, you will know what happens if you're too feeble...

happy training.




[edit] more info can be found here:

http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/pose-running-technique.html

Thanking Luis Utz for originally posting that link on .net. [/edit]
« Last Edit: January 20, 2006, 05:41:20 PM by Bachelarius » Logged

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